Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register
This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
Elon has said Level 5 many times. B.S. from 2020:
“I remain confident that we will have the basic functionality for level five autonomy complete this year,” he said. “I think there are no fundamental challenges remaining for level five autonomy.” (c)ElonMusk

And these same dummies KEEP falling for it. Every year:
"he SAID this year, but he didnt really mean THIS year. Isnt that obvious?"

🤣
 
  • Like
Reactions: beachmiles
One part of how FSD approaches Chuck's problem that is dangerous, is when the car and wheels are angled into the turn, before making the turn. If the car was hit from behind, it would be pushed into oncoming traffic. If it is facing straight ahead, it has a better chance of avoiding that.
This might help alleviate the anxiety Chuck has as the car gets close to the oncoming cars.
In addition, it should let the center, long range camera get a better view of distant, oncoming traffic to better negotiate and opening.
50 years ago, my Driver's Training instructor told me about keeping the wheels straight ahead, and I have never forgot it.
 
I’m not excusing any of this, I just think these statements are some of the best evidence available that Elon is being coached by his lawyers and you need to dissect the wording like a lawyer. I would say the same thing about anything coming out of his Twitter.

“Basic functionality for Level 5 autonomy” does not mean they’re close to actually releasing something resembling Level 5, and neither does claiming there are no fundamental challenges remaining. I think the wording is carefully structured to cover his and Tesla’s behind while also being interpreted differently by most readers who don’t hear/read it with such a critical ear/eye.
 
So you are saying that you do, or do not believe Elons words on FSD for end of this year?
I do not think FSD is going to be delivered this year, which would not contradict this particular statement of Elon's. Will they expand the beta to everyone? They might, though I'd be surprised. I think they'll probably get single stack out this year. But none of this would qualify as delivery, since it's not remotely useful and suffers from a ton of defects at the moment. I'm not sure how to define delivery. I guess FSD delivery (for most owners) would be a delivery of an L2 system that people generally feel is pretty decent.
stating he will be “shocked” if Tesla does not complete FSD by the end of the year.
Elon will be shocked. Won't be the first time. He's a wishful thinker. He fell into that trap again (very difficult to avoid, after all). Unless his idea of what FSD needs to be to be delivered has been knocked down several pegs, it's not going to happen this year. Probably not next year either, though another year allows a lot more backsliding on what qualifies as delivery so it's possible.
There are turns that I (Beta) take that I would consider 75% in 10.13 a GREAT result and improvement.😉
In context it would be great (even 90% according to the fairly tight criteria would be a huge improvement). But 99% in terms of what it needs to be to be safe and actually even useful is not nearly good enough.

Chuck's problem
This is his other turn you are referring to, but I suspect even for the famous much more difficult turn the car also angles itself a bit unnaturally, since that's inexplicably what FSDb does at the moment.

I would be great if they got the wheel turning thing fixed; it would solve so many of my problems and make it much more natural, but I'd be shocked if they do on 10.13.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nosken
“I remain confident that we will have the basic functionality for level five autonomy complete this year,” he said. “I think there are no fundamental challenges remaining for level five autonomy.” (c)ElonMusk

And these same dummies KEEP falling for it. Every year:
"he SAID this year, but he didnt really mean THIS year. Isnt that obvious?"

🤣

I know you love thumping your chest and it's in some way cathartic for you, as you personally feel betrayed / buyer's remorse over this. But you have to understand that the vast majority of people who purchase the FSD package did so because they wanted to, even with news articles and negative comments on Twitter and TMC. I agree with you that there is a percentage of people who were duped into buying FSD, but that number is likely much smaller than you think it is. And I legitimately feel bad for them, and hope they find some recourse for their situation - again, I refer to the amazing after-market for Teslas right now - some people could sell their Tesla for more than they paid for it.

You can keep going - there's no sense in trying to stop you. But just understand that your audience who agrees with you is a very small number. According to InsideEV, Tesla sold an estimated 350K cars in the US last year (2021). And the FSD take-rate in the US is 14% (globally it's 7%), which means in the US nearly 50,000 people purchased FSD last year alone. How many people are here on TMC agreeing with you? Let's be generous and say 1,000 people on TMC agree with you. That's 2% of FSD owners. If we look up your polls, we see less than 100 people agree with you, with only 36 in your spinoff poll.

Tesla has a massive repeat buyer statistic, higher than any other car brand. People love the car, and tens of thousands enjoy the FSD package, which many purchased again with their new Tesla.
 
But just understand that your audience who agrees with you is a very small number. If we look up your polls, we see less than 100 people agree with you, with only 36 in your spinoff poll.
Say what now..
 

Attachments

  • 5F400255-423B-4597-BF88-62AD3BC4DDBB.jpeg
    5F400255-423B-4597-BF88-62AD3BC4DDBB.jpeg
    239.9 KB · Views: 60
  • 298002A2-982A-4619-93EC-B43CD50C047C.jpeg
    298002A2-982A-4619-93EC-B43CD50C047C.jpeg
    255.3 KB · Views: 43
So are you

So you are saying that you do, or do not believe Elons words on FSD for end of this year? Because above was in addition to this:

Tesla CEO Elon Musk said during the Q4 2021 Earnings Call that he is confident the company’s Full Self-Driving suite will be finished by 2022.

Musk was extremely confident in his prediction, stating he will be “shocked” if Tesla does not complete FSD by the end of the year.
Who cares? So Elon, as usual, has been making noises to investors. So what? FSD progress continues, and will continue, until FSD gets released. Or do you hope that FSD will never release, because of .. reasons?
 
I don’t know if vision only is the future or a cul-de-sac...but an awful lot of people thought that the only practical way that a ev would work is in hybrid form....it’s easy being wrong when predicting the future
True. But…not in this instance. Haha.
Vision only will NOT get the level 5 as promised by teslas ceo. And yes…he clearly stated level 5.
 
Now who is predicting the future? :)
that’s not a prediction, that’s a real life fact!

Remember: I was the one who was correct from the start about Karpathy NOT coming back from “sabbatical”.

I’m even more correct on this one.

In fact, mark this: if Tesla gets to Elons promised L5(to include NYC TO LA with no human input) by end of this year as promised? I will resign from TMC!

Mark it down!
 
  • Funny
Reactions: boonedocks
that’s not a prediction, that’s a real life fact!

Remember: I was the one who was correct from the start about Karpathy NOT coming back from “sabbatical”.

I’m even more correct on this one.

In fact, mark this: if Tesla gets to Elons promised L5(to include NYC TO LA with no human input) by end of this year as promised? I will resign from TMC!

Mark it down!
Nope, it’s a prediction, and has no more or less credibility regardless of Karpathy.

The fact is, you accuse people of being “dummies” because they are being (in your opinion) optimistic about FSD. I dont see any difference between their (perhaps misguided) optimism and your (perhaps equally misguided) pessimism.
 
Nope, it’s a prediction, and has no more or less credibility regardless of Karpathy.

The fact is, you accuse people of being “dummies” because they are being (in your opinion) optimistic about FSD. I dont see any difference between their (perhaps misguided) optimism and your (perhaps equally misguided) pessimism.
Beyond optimism and pessimism, I think a good percentage of people just want FSD because they like the features. They want NoA with automatic lane changes. They want autopark (I use it all the time), they want summon because they have tight garages or carports. And they don't mind paying for it. Teslas are considered luxury cars and many of the buyers have the financial capability to buy whatever they want.
 
How many LIDAR sensors do humans have again?

We're asking Robots to have a much higher safety threshold than humans.

I think its only fair to give them a sensor suite that will help them achieve that. We also might want to consider giving them telepathy while we're at it.

Why limit a machine to rudimentary human sensors, and communication capability.

Driving is not a task humans evolved sensors to do. Someone instead got the terrible idea in their mind that it would somehow be a good idea to have average people piloting 4000 pound weights around that make a terrible amount of noise, and pollution.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2101Guy
that’s not a prediction, that’s a real life fact!...

Mark it down!
Facts require empirical evidence and at this time there is no supporting qualitative data to prove this as a fact. While it may or may NOT turn out to be correct it is an OPINION and NOT a fact. You have no way of disproving cameras and saying they will NEVER work. Just saying so doesn't make it so.

I'm skeptical myself that the current hardware setup will ever make L4. But this just like you is my opinion.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Yelobird and Dewg
We're asking Robots to have a much higher safety threshold than humans.

I think its only fair to give them a sensor suite that will help them achieve that. We also might want to consider giving them telepathy while we're at it.

Why limit a machine to rudimentary human sensors, and communication capability.

Driving is not a task humans evolved sensors to do. Someone instead got the terrible idea in their mind that it would somehow be a good idea to have average people piloting 4000 pound weights around that make a terrible amount of noise, and pollution.
I've often thought that all cars need to communicate with each other. When you need to change lanes, your car sends signals to all other cars around you to make room and allow the change to occur smoothly. When you accelerate, cars around accelerate equally to prevent traffic waves that propagate outwards and slow down people mile(s) away. But to achieve this, we need all cars to be AVs, no more human drivers. Traffic would be a think of the past.
 
We're asking Robots to have a much higher safety threshold than humans.

I think its only fair to give them a sensor suite that will help them achieve that.

They can see in all directions simultaneously- a human can't.--- and without ever being distracted by the radio, their phone, a screaming child, a bad medical diagnosis, etc....

So they've already got a pretty better-than-human sensor suite.


Why limit a machine to rudimentary human sensors, and communication capability.

Because vision is the type of sensor the entire driving and road system was designed to work with from the start.

Plus we don't want new cars to cost $250,000.