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Is there a limitation for the maximum steering angle than FSD can turn the wheel?

- I never been able to use a roundabout without getting​
the RED Steering Wheel Display Warning, even at 5 miles per hour.​

yup, same here, but it depends on the radius of the round-about. Near my home it is a disaster even at 5 mph. Red hands of death appear. But in other areas of Sparks/Reno, it can negotiate fine with a large radius round-about. I get back home tomorrow, so I'll get an opportunity to try 69 on the ones near home. Hoping for the best. From what I hear, it should be fine, but I prefer to verify for myself.
 
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I wonder how they will manage the strike system? I think they would have a hard time removing access entirely, but wonder what their method will be? I don’t think one strike disabling for the drive will accomplish what they need since it is so easy to re-enable in city driving.

I think a good solution is a 5-10 minute procedure to re-enable after a strike. This would need to be done every time you get in the car, for three months after a strike.

I hope it is draconian in any case.
They need to fix the strike algorithm first.
 
yup, same here, but it depends on the radius of the round-about. Near my home it is a disaster even at 5 mph. Red hands of death appear. But in other areas of Sparks/Reno, it can negotiate fine with a large radius round-about. I get back home tomorrow, so I'll get an opportunity to try 69 on the ones near home. Hoping for the best. From what I hear, it should be fine, but I prefer to verify for myself.
I’ve routinely been able to do roundabouts. I don’t know what’s considered ‘small,’ but the center island on most of the roundabouts I’ve used is probably between 5 & 10 meters across
 
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I’ve routinely been able to do roundabouts. I don’t know what’s considered ‘small,’ but the center island on most of the roundabouts I’ve used is probably between 5 & 10 meters across
My city reworked a road in my neighborhood and replaced a bunch of residential road stop signs with very small roundabouts. These require nearly minimum turn radius to navigate. School buses cannot make a left turn by following the roundabout in the anti-clockwise direction and must shortcut by going clockwise.

My car can handle making a right turn (90 degrees through the roundabout) just fine everytime. It can manage going halfway around (straight through) about 25% of the time if the speed is slower than the 25 mph limit. But even then, it sometimes clips the island curb, which is not a big deal as it has a very low slope. It has never made it 270 degrees around to accomplish a left turn, even with the max speed dialed down to 5 mph.

It really does not seem to be a difficult technical challenge. There's usually little to no other traffic to deal with, but beta just doesn't know how to deal with them yet.

Here's an example:

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My city reworked a road in my neighborhood and replaced a bunch of residential road stop signs with very small roundabouts. These require nearly minimum turn radius to navigate. School buses cannot make a left turn by following the roundabout in the anti-clockwise direction and must shortcut by going clockwise.

My car can handle making a right turn (90 degrees through the roundabout) just fine everytime. It can manage going halfway around (straight through) about 25% of the time if the speed is slower than the 25 mph limit. But even then, it sometimes clips the island curb, which is not a big deal as it has a very low slope. It has never made it 270 degrees around to accomplish a left turn, even with the max speed dialed down to 5 mph.

It really does not seem to be a difficult technical challenge. There's usually little to no other traffic to deal with, but beta just doesn't know how to deal with them yet.
That's an interesting intersection. I guess I would not even call that a roundabout. More of an annoying obstacle. Nice looking neighborhood. I'm having a hard time understanding why that thing is there.
 
That's an interesting intersection. I guess I would not even call that a roundabout. More of an annoying obstacle. Nice looking neighborhood. I'm having a hard time understanding why that thing is there.
Yeah - if they designed it so a school bus can’t properly navigate it then it’s a design fail, IMO.

This seems like one of those cases where the street planners got caught up in the latest fad without thinking whether it was actually an appropriate solution.
 
That's an interesting intersection. I guess I would not even call that a roundabout. More of an annoying obstacle. Nice looking neighborhood. I'm having a hard time understanding why that thing is there.
We have a lot of roundabouts near me. None of them look like that ugly thing. My guess some contractor pocketed the money instead of building a proper round about.
 
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We have a lot of roundabouts near me. None of them look like that ugly thing. My guess some contractor pocketed the money instead of building a proper round about.
People tend to speed on the through street through the neighborhood. The road used to have speed bumps and a lot of stop signs. The roundabouts replace all that. They actually work pretty well. They're landscaped now and look fine when not distorted by a streetmap fisheye lens.

I was hoping that FSD beta wouold handle these OK after the recent map update caught up with their presence. But, no luck yet. Maybe 10.69, with its supposed better reliance on video will figure them out.
 
People tend to speed on the through street through the neighborhood. The road used to have speed bumps and a lot of stop signs. The roundabouts replace all that. They actually work pretty well. They're landscaped now and look fine when not distorted by a streetmap fisheye lens.

I was hoping that FSD beta wouold handle these OK after the recent map update caught up with their presence. But, no luck yet. Maybe 10.69, with its supposed better reliance on video will figure them out.
On similar small roundabouts near me FSD is effective though clumsy.
 
I would not expect the subscription price to stay at $200 for very much longer, let alone for 6 years.
The beauty of subscription pricing is it's an ongoing reflection of true market price. We might not know what it's going to be at any given point in its development, but we know that the price has to be supportive of the functionality.

The one exception to that is how it exist today where it cost more than the functionality offered. It's that way because $200/month is basically a minimum viable price to even support a subscription offering.

As soon as the subscription pricing needle moves its going to get really interesting. It will likely mean that something about the functionality is causing support to happen above the $200/month pricing.

I don't think that's going to happen with HW3 FSD, but it's one of those "I'll be happy to be wrong" kinds of things.
 
People tend to speed on the through street through the neighborhood. The road used to have speed bumps and a lot of stop signs. The roundabouts replace all that. They actually work pretty well. They're landscaped now and look fine when not distorted by a streetmap fisheye lens.

I was hoping that FSD beta wouold handle these OK after the recent map update caught up with their presence. But, no luck yet. Maybe 10.69, with its supposed better reliance on video will figure them out.
Roundabouts are too logical.

Instead I prefer the roads with 2 way stop signs so you have to stop at each intersection with the windows open to hear if someone is coming because you don't have good visibility with the parked cars or shrubs. :p
 
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The beauty of subscription pricing is it's an ongoing reflection of true market price
Why is this only the case with subscription pricing. It’s the same thing with purchase price for FSD. The take rate of FSD is low because neither the subscription nor the purchase price is reflective of true market price.

If you look at how much used cars with FSD sell for, it’s maybe $2-$3k more than basic AP. I think that’s more reflective of true market price.
 
Why is this only the case with subscription pricing. It’s the same thing with purchase price for FSD. The take rate of FSD is low because neither the subscription nor the purchase price is reflective of true market price.

If you look at how much used cars with FSD sell for, it’s maybe $2-$3k more than basic AP. I think that’s more reflective of true market price.

This is the problem of FSD. It barely retains any value. Not sure what's Tesla's own trade in is now but they don't count FSD into their pricing. Elon himself tweeted that it isn't right and should be fix.... But why would they? They don't need the software on the car, it has zero value for them. In fact, they can turn it off and resale to the next guy that's willing to pay full FSD price again! To me this is the biggest scam of it all (intended or not).

If they tie the software to account, then it would be worth it. It will also retain loyalty as your next car will always be a Tesla so FSD doesn't go to waste. I just don't understand why they wouldn't do this. Whose going to pay for FSD again and again without having proper resale value?
 
They don't do this because that would give everyone a lifetime of self driving software for peanuts.
I don't see why that matters. If you keep your one Tesla for a lifetime then you've got a lifetime of self driving. You bought it. Why couldn't it transfer, just because they are greedy? If your next Tesla has a higher priced version with HW4, sure they could charge you the difference.
 
I don't see why that matters. If you keep your one Tesla for a lifetime then you've got a lifetime of self driving. You bought it. Why couldn't it transfer, just because they are greedy? If your next Tesla has a higher priced version with HW4, sure they could charge you the difference.
Because, unless you are very old, chances are that you will not keep your Tesla for the rest of your life. If you have a lifetime license, you'd expect Tesla to continue to support it with free software and hardware upgrades - possibly for 50 years, depending on your age. And, since there would eventually be millions of lifetime owners, money to pay for those upgrades will ultimately have to come from a relatively few first time FSD buyers.
 
Because, unless you are very old, chances are that you will not keep your Tesla for the rest of your life. If you have a lifetime license, you'd expect Tesla to continue to support it with free software and hardware upgrades - possibly for 50 years, depending on your age. And, since there would eventually be millions of lifetime owners, money to pay for those upgrades will ultimately have to come from a relatively few first time FSD buyers.
They could just as easily use the Windows model, issue free software updates for HW3 until at some point they issue HW4. Then you only get updates to fix critical issues on HW3. You can transfer your HW3 software to any other HW3 car, but if you want HW4 then you have to buy the new software version - with the new hardware being included in the new car's price.

Right now they have locked themselves into a fixed (and old) hardware selection, and prohibited software transfer between HW3-HW3 and HW2.5-HW2.5 etc cars. It's the worst of both worlds for them and their customers. Poor hardware and inflexibility with getting a cutting-edge FSD system, and customers losing their expensive software and being forced to rebuy it - when it doesn't even work yet.
 
Why is this only the case with subscription pricing. It’s the same thing with purchase price for FSD. The take rate of FSD is low because neither the subscription nor the purchase price is reflective of true market price.

If you look at how much used cars with FSD sell for, it’s maybe $2-$3k more than basic AP. I think that’s more reflective of true market price.
The purchase price has always leveraged fear of missing out to justify it's price despite features not being ready. It can always be higher than true "it is what it does today" market price if buyers believe they'll get something more later. It's essentially a Kickstarter.

Now that being said in recent years the price seems to high that its a disincentive to purchasing it, and instead it's expected that people will subscribe later on. The other possibility is it was cheaper liability wise to sell it FSD to fewer people for large amounts of money versus a smaller amount to a greater number of people.

Used car buyers are typically value seeking people so they're way less likely to get pulled in with promises of the future. They're a generally a good barometer of the true market price except for recent times as everything is upside down in the used car market.
 
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They could just as easily use the Windows model, issue free software updates for HW3 until at some point they issue HW4. Then you only get updates to fix critical issues on HW3. You can transfer your HW3 software to any other HW3 car, but if you want HW4 then you have to buy the new software version - with the new hardware being included in the new car's price.

Right now they have locked themselves into a fixed (and old) hardware selection, and prohibited software transfer between HW3-HW3 and HW2.5-HW2.5 etc cars. It's the worst of both worlds for them and their customers. Poor hardware and inflexibility with getting a cutting-edge FSD system, and customers losing their expensive software and being forced to rebuy it - when it doesn't even work yet.
You are referring to the windows OEM model where you pay the Windows license fee as part of each computer purchase? The OEM version of windows is not transferable to a new computer even if it's compatible. If you buy a PC that has no OS, you cannot move it to the new computer.

Or maybe you are referring to the smartphone OS software model where you pay the OS license fee with every phone that you buy and cannot transfer that license to a new phone? Try asking Apple for a discount because you are replacing a broken iPhone and already bought the OS with your broken one.

Or maybe you are referring to the optional features model that high-end test equipment makers, like Agilent and Tektronix use for their products? It's very similar to Tesla. You buy an arbitrary waveform generator from one of them and pay a lot extra to enable the optional LTE waveform simulation that's already installed on the device. But, if you decide to sell your device, the optional software stays with that device. You cannot switch it to a replacement device, even if it's the same model.

If you are lucky, and keep your car long enough, Tesla might offer a discount on FSD like they are doing in China. The reason this might make sense for Tesla is to encourage you to trade in your existing license so that you can't sell it to someone else. Depending on the resale value of FSD at that time, it may make sense for you to take such an offer.
 
Try asking Apple for a discount because you are replacing a broken iPhone and already bought the OS with your broken one.
Apple gives a pretty big discount for that.
You can ask here (select “other damage” to get cost for replacing a totally destroyed phone):
 
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