One day we'll share a case of Chatou Margou together and laugh about all this as AP2 drives us home/hotel. 'mmkay? 
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Elon: FSD in 2020
- Thread starter malcolm
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This is incorrect because all of elons claims, promises came AFTER the mobileye breakup and he has double down on them multiple times afterwards. So no hes a filthy liar that deceives his customers.
NerdUno
Member
Rain-sensing wipers were one of the promised Dec. 31, 2016 features that has never appeared IIRC.
It's reassuring to know that no matter how dark my mood and how deep my river of cynicism, I'm still comparatively cheerful once I find the right person to be used as a reference.
Sure.. but what is that to do with croman's claim about AP2 not reaching parity with AP1?
They’re not lies but probabilistic interpretations of the future later invalidated by unforseen externalities which complicated the statistical model.
I spent two years imagining how my self-driving car was going to pick me up in the parking lot when I dropped off my previous VW and ultimately received a vehicle with one forward facing camera in a housing desined for two and which later learned to display its wings but will never take a highway exit (now explicitly advertised for Model 3).
Disappointed, yes, but not lied to since I knew what I was getting when I got it even though my expectations were not met. I do feel sorry for the AP 2 folks who have seen misses around some well defined goal posts but whoever really believes a salesman?
I spent two years imagining how my self-driving car was going to pick me up in the parking lot when I dropped off my previous VW and ultimately received a vehicle with one forward facing camera in a housing desined for two and which later learned to display its wings but will never take a highway exit (now explicitly advertised for Model 3).
Disappointed, yes, but not lied to since I knew what I was getting when I got it even though my expectations were not met. I do feel sorry for the AP 2 folks who have seen misses around some well defined goal posts but whoever really believes a salesman?
I am finding new apperciation for the poetry and verbal acrobacy one can experience on TMC!
It's not a claim. It's a fact. Objectively AP1 still offers more. AP2 keeps getting closer but hasn't exceeded 1 and that is clear given IC isn't able to classify nor accurately display neighboring vehicles. It can't read signs. It's not as robust.
- IC showing neighboring vehicles is just a convenience feature, and not really needed for your AP experience. It may feel comforting to you, but that visualization is not needed for Auto Steer/TACC to function. For all we know Tesla might choose not to show that at all ever, and that should have no bearing in how your car behaves and drives under AP.
- It can't read signs? Neither can AP1 read Stop signs or school signs. AP2 chooses to do speed limits differently which in the long run would be better than reading signs off the side of the street. Imagine a situation, where the sign is obscured by a passing vehicle
- It's not as robust?: Subjective. From a ton of posts here in the last two months, I am seeing it seems equally robust and in some case more.
In the end all of this is nitpicking.. or so it seems.
1) Visualization is everything, it gives us drivers the confidence to know what our cars can and cannot see specifically when operating semi-autonomously. Seeing other cars on the road and being able to identify/classify them is critical in the race to full autonomy. The car needs to be able to show its surroundings and needs to be able to react based on the vehicles and other elements in its surroundings. Saying that its not needed is like saying displaying accurate lane markings is not needed for the autosteer experience.
It is more than clear that both AP1 and AP2 can see everything, but what Tesla chooses to show is what the issue is and why they choose not to show in AP2 could just simply be them not being at parity with AP1 to do so just yet. We know they will catch up eventually but the question is when.
2) Both AP1 and AP2 can Identify and read signs, that ability has been shown in the code many times. Tesla is not showing that information most likely because its not actionable in the current software build so they keep it suppressed until ready
3) Most thoughts/opinions of AP are subjective and mainly driven by the owners bias...usually in these camps:
A) I have AP1 and am not upgrading anytime soon so we want it to be best/relevant as long as possible
B) I have AP2 and I want it to be superior to AP1 because I paid extra for EAP/FSD and don't want the money to have been for nothing.
C) I have AP1 and want AP2 to be better because I am upgrading soon!
D) I call it like I see it and objectively APx is better than APy
B) I have AP2 and I want it to be superior to AP1 because I paid extra for EAP/FSD and don't want the money to have been for nothing.
C) I have AP1 and want AP2 to be better because I am upgrading soon!
D) I call it like I see it and objectively APx is better than APy
You are wrong
1. Ap2 doesnt show the differrent vehicle class now because their classifier isnt good enough which will be proven wheb they enable it later.
2. Ap2 same goes for showing cars in other lane, this feature is also not accurate which is why its not currently being shown.
3. Ap1 can read speed limit signs and use the local database aswell, ap2 can only currently use the local database which is 75% of the time outdated. Also mobileye eyeq3 can read over 150 different traffic signs including stop signs and school signs although its not implemented in ap1.
4. Ap1 can lane change on local roads, ap2 can't
... i could go on and on and on
NerdUno
Member
It's not a question of believing a salesman. It's a (written) contractual term between early AP2 purchasers and Tesla.
Yinn
Active Member
E)I had an AP1 at the same time as I had an AP2. Now I have 2x AP2s. I switched from my AP1 to my AP2 when I stopped noticing a difference when I go from one car to another.
It matters if I nitpick I can point out all the things my AP2 doesn't have that my AP1 did. But the reality is that 99% of the time none of it pops at you. The other 1% - rain sensing wipers.
That is the only thing I miss from my AP1...but boy do I miss it every time it rains. Every time it rains I question if I made a bad decision in spending the extra money to upgrade to an AP2 car. My satisfaction otherwise may also be based on the fact that I did not pay for FSD.
I have AP1 and AP2 and can say that the rain sensing wipers is a HUGE deal, not having them on the newer car with newer hardware is a bummer, I honestly dont know how the camera's factor into the rain sensor, just about every car has a rain sensor and rain sensing wipers....
Tesla is known to be working on a neural network that senses rain using the front fisheye. In theory it has potential: a big view outside, much bigger than a rain sensor (as well as possibility of seeing shadow of rain on the glare shield visible to the camera?). The downside is the camera is not necessarily in best focus for viewing the surface of the glass compared to a dedicated rain sensor.
My estimate for its release: 3 months maybe, 6 months definitely.
My estimate for its release: 3 months maybe, 6 months definitely.
Oh Blader, you butt muppet oxygen thief, your status of twat waffle of TMC is in jeopardy.
I understand this poetry better know that I know a bit more about your music taste!
yo!
Oh Blader
you butt muppet
oxygen thief
your status
of twat waffle
of TMC is
in jeopardy
love how every two or three days we get the russian blader, followed by a dude who doesn't misspell anything and understands pronouns suddenly.... My only question is did the anoxic brain injury blader suffered as a child make him crave Baby Ruth Candy bars and cause him to seek caves as his primary dwelling or was he born this way?
Blader I know you don't have a tesla, but I'm happy to help you with a radio flyer so you can learn to drive one day.
@buttershrimp: Not that I know whether or not @Bladerskb is multiple persons (maybe he/she is, who knows? I don't particularly care, though, his/her points are what they are completely irrespective of that), just a general observation, people do tend to sound quite a bit different depending on whether or not they are on mobile or computer. That could explain some differences.
I am constantly hampered by my phone auto-correcting me in unexpected ways when writing a foreign language and the cramped keyboard, the types etc. have its effect too. I often feel my writing quality going way down compared to what I can do when I write on my computer, it also invites being lazy with pronouns, punctuation and capitalization. Just something to think about.
To me it seems Bladerskb is typoing while writing on a phone, possibly one that is not set to English, and at times writing on a computer more fluently. Try setting your phone to Spanish and write English on TMC for a couple of days with it.
(I know you can change your phone's auto-correct language, but when that's not your all-the-time thing, things happen and the foreign language auto-correct isn't as familiar anyway. I find it painful to participate with a phone, but sometimes I still do - I'm sure I sound different.)
I am constantly hampered by my phone auto-correcting me in unexpected ways when writing a foreign language and the cramped keyboard, the types etc. have its effect too. I often feel my writing quality going way down compared to what I can do when I write on my computer, it also invites being lazy with pronouns, punctuation and capitalization. Just something to think about.
To me it seems Bladerskb is typoing while writing on a phone, possibly one that is not set to English, and at times writing on a computer more fluently. Try setting your phone to Spanish and write English on TMC for a couple of days with it.
(I know you can change your phone's auto-correct language, but when that's not your all-the-time thing, things happen and the foreign language auto-correct isn't as familiar anyway. I find it painful to participate with a phone, but sometimes I still do - I'm sure I sound different.)
This got me thinking, sorry about the detour:
One thing I guess people who aren't fluent in a foreign language don't often realize that it is still not the same as a native language, even though it may sound sort of like native - or a badly speaking native. Unlike with a (badly) spoken native language, with a foreign language, even a fluent one, one tends to get these blanks for words that they don't when speaking a native language - even compared to speaking a native language badly. Because your brain keeps offering the native word. It's just different with a foreign language.
Put this on a phone that is basically fighting you constantly in what you are trying to say, both in unexpected auto-correct (unexpected often due to lack of routine even if you have remembered to swap it to English, but perhaps you haven't swapped it to English making things even weirder) as well as the cramped quarters of both the screen and keyboard and cursor movement hampering your ability to formulate and correct text, a need for which may be higher with a foreign language.
Even natives are lazy on mobile (if @Bladerskb is native in English, he/she may just be lazy). But writing a foreign language on a mobile is double the pain, even if you are fluent in it, especially if you don't write that foreign language on the phone on a daily basis. You have to learn the logic of that foreign language on the phone, which may well differ from how formulating your native language on the phone works, starting with how the auto-correct works.
When writing a foreing language, I notice simply becoming much less verbal on a phone and much more rigid - than on a computer. Which brings me to my conclusion: I guess a lof people would prefer me participating only through a phone.
One thing I guess people who aren't fluent in a foreign language don't often realize that it is still not the same as a native language, even though it may sound sort of like native - or a badly speaking native. Unlike with a (badly) spoken native language, with a foreign language, even a fluent one, one tends to get these blanks for words that they don't when speaking a native language - even compared to speaking a native language badly. Because your brain keeps offering the native word. It's just different with a foreign language.
Put this on a phone that is basically fighting you constantly in what you are trying to say, both in unexpected auto-correct (unexpected often due to lack of routine even if you have remembered to swap it to English, but perhaps you haven't swapped it to English making things even weirder) as well as the cramped quarters of both the screen and keyboard and cursor movement hampering your ability to formulate and correct text, a need for which may be higher with a foreign language.
Even natives are lazy on mobile (if @Bladerskb is native in English, he/she may just be lazy). But writing a foreign language on a mobile is double the pain, even if you are fluent in it, especially if you don't write that foreign language on the phone on a daily basis. You have to learn the logic of that foreign language on the phone, which may well differ from how formulating your native language on the phone works, starting with how the auto-correct works.
When writing a foreing language, I notice simply becoming much less verbal on a phone and much more rigid - than on a computer. Which brings me to my conclusion: I guess a lof people would prefer me participating only through a phone.
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