Elon: FSD in 2020

[Yinn]

I have AP1 and AP2 and can say that the rain sensing wipers is a HUGE deal, not having them on the newer car with newer hardware is a bummer, I honestly dont know how the camera's factor into the rain sensor, just about every car has a rain sensor and rain sensing wipers....

It’s the only thing that makes me regret selling my AP1. Who knew such a small thing would have such a large impact.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

I think the rain-sensing in AP2 does have potential, though. Look at the view it has outside compared to a small rain sensor. If they get it working well (they will get it working, but how well remains to be seen), it should actually be able to make much better sense of rain and windshield dirt than a small sensor:

The bigger problem is, is the focus area that it was watch for rain how large - or will it, for example, only watch for a small area on the extremeties of the fisheye if the rest of the view is simply too out of focus for rain monitoring...

Personally I do think they should have invested in a secondary rain sensor, too. It would have helped with the transition and been a second data point/added redundancy later on. They could have removed it eventually if it was no longer needed.

Thanks to @verygreen for the image.

 

[Gwgan]

It's not a question of believing a salesman. It's a (written) contractual term between early AP2 purchasers and Tesla.

The AP2 promises were more concrete; auto wipers were part of that:

Tesla advertised the wipers as a feature of the car, put them in the manual, and gave test drives of vehicles with wipers. Then, when they removed this feature, they didn't tell owners until after the cars were delivered.

 

[Yinn]

I think the rain-sensing in AP2 does have potential, though. Look at the view it has outside compared to a small rain sensor. If they get it working well (they will get it working, but how well remains to be seen), it should actually be able to make much better sense of rain and windshield dirt than a small sensor:

The bigger problem is, is the focus area that it was watch for rain how large - or will it, for example, only watch for a small area on the extremeties of the fisheye if the rest of the view is simply too out of focus for rain monitoring...

Personally I do think they should have invested in a secondary rain sensor, too. It would have helped with the transition and been a second data point/added redundancy later on. They could have removed it eventually if it was no longer needed.

Thanks to @verygreen for the image.

I can see how the visibility aspect might also be good in say a blizzard condition. Imagine it knowing it is snowing and automatically turning on heated wipers. It's just a tough pill to swallow when it was already working so well on the AP1. They should have put you in charge and kept the redundancy until the development was ready

 

[Phrixotrichus]

Reading this thread made me feel like sitting in the informatics 1 lecture back in my university days......crossbred with a philosophy / linguistics podium.............

Elon`s messaging should always start with "I have a dream...." which wouldn`t be a problem if he didn`t try to sell that to you.

Guess I´ll just keep my old cars for at least another 2 years then.....

 

[Doug_G]

Bunch of posts have been moved to snippiness

 

[buttershrimp]

We have come the full circle. From Nazis to MLK.

Or better yet BTW (Blader Thread Weasel) all the way to MLK.

Seriously though, I am glad to see @BLKTSLA on the thread, someone who does real videos and has real contributions to offer.

 

[Unpilot]

I have to ask why are rain sensing wipers such a big deal?
It rains I turn on wipers...it stops I turn them off.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

I have to ask why are rain sensing wipers such a big deal?
It rains I turn on wipers...it stops I turn them off.

My biggest grief is the Mercedes inherited stalk, where you have to turn a switch to adjust the wipers. On Model 3 you have to do this from the touch screen! These are not really designed to be quickly operated while driving... Add to this years of gettting used to auto-wipers, it is an inconvenience.

It is not IMO as big an inconvenience as some make it out to be, but it is still an inconvenience.

On an Audi where a stalk handles the wipers, it is actually easy to operate manually as well while in many kinds of driving situations...

 

[Swift]

I have to ask why are rain sensing wipers such a big deal?
It rains I turn on wipers...it stops I turn them off.

It's a feature on most cars in this class and many below it. It is a convenience (and some would say safety) feature of automatically engaging wipers and varying their speed to dynamically changing conditions.

That all said, I think it's a requirement for FSD to keep the forward cameras clear.

 

[croman]

- IC showing neighboring vehicles is just a convenience feature, and not really needed for your AP experience. It may feel comforting to you, but that visualization is not needed for Auto Steer/TACC to function. For all we know Tesla might choose not to show that at all ever, and that should have no bearing in how your car behaves and drives under AP.

- It can't read signs? Neither can AP1 read Stop signs or school signs. AP2 chooses to do speed limits differently which in the long run would be better than reading signs off the side of the street. Imagine a situation, where the sign is obscured by a passing vehicle

- It's not as robust?: Subjective. From a ton of posts here in the last two months, I am seeing it seems equally robust and in some case more.

In the end all of this is nitpicking.. or so it seems.

Get in an AP2 car and watch it as it loses the lead car during a lane change and tries to ram it (before seeing it again and slamming on the brakes all while changing lanes).

Tell me that's "just a convenience" aspect of AP.

 

[Unpilot]

Ok I get that and the placement of the control is less than optimal ...it just seems that ...well maybe...just maybe some people make it out to be a teeny little bit more of an issue than I see it

 

[Doug_G]

My old 2012 P85 had auto sensing wipers, and they didn't work all that well especially in light drizzle - the windshield would get progressively more clouded until you couldn't see a thing. Then you would crash. And then they would wipe. Well okay I wouldn't crash but I always ended up pulsing the wipers manually, which is annoying. I wished it had a "low wiper" mode in addition to the auto mode.

My 2017 100D doesn't have the auto mode. But the low speed delay wipers work 100%. So it's actually less annoying.

My preference would be to have rain sensing wipers that actually worked. My old 2010 Infiniti G37 was way better - not perfect, but pretty decent.

If Tesla is trying to save the cost of a rain sensor by putting that function into the AP cameras, I'm sure they aren't optimized for the purpose. And that's probably why the feature has never appeared.

 

[TrafficEng]

It's a common problem in the software business:

1) Add a new feature, even a really useful one, and everyone is pleased (in very small letters)
2) Remove a feature, even a small one, and everyone is PISSED (in very big letters)!

The auto wiper feature worked very well in AP1, and now that I've moved to AP2, the auto wiper feature is very noticable by its omission.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Just adding my opinion to the mix: I felt that my pre-AP Model S rain sensor worked as well as they usually work in the cars I've owned (not perfect but useful enough). I would gladly have something equal or better on my Model X.

 

[Doug_G]

It's a common problem in the software business:

1) Add a new feature, even a really useful one, and everyone is pleased (in very small letters)
2) Remove a feature, even a small one, and everyone is PISSED (in very big letters)!

The auto wiper feature worked very well in AP1, and now that I've moved to AP2, the auto wiper feature is very noticable by its omission.

#2 is so true!!! We once removed a (IMHO rather useless) check box from a software product we sell, and you wouldn't believe the uproar. Even though the check box was completely redundant. People have their workflow, and don't like to change.

Yes, it's not great that the feature is missing. But there's so much else in my car that is so much better that I'm not losing sleep over it.

 

[Yinn]

I have to ask why are rain sensing wipers such a big deal?
It rains I turn on wipers...it stops I turn them off.

On some other cars the rain sensing feature annoyed me, and I preferred a manual control. On my AP1, they worked really well.

The manual on and off isn’t the issue, it’s the frequency of a swipe. In varying conditions it can get mildly annoying when you can’t find the right speed. Too slow and you can’t see. Too fast and you get scraping.

Add a long and busy highway commute and I find myself constantly adjusting the wiper speed for 1+ hours.

Otherwise you’re right. No problem with manually turning them on. Or manually opening the doors on my X. Or manually actuating the high beam. Or turning the headlights on. Or moving the seat back when I exit and enter. Etc. but they’re sure all nice to have.

 

[Doug_G]

My pre-AP wipers were not fast enough under any conditions... except during moderate rain when they would unhelpfully go to high speed erratically.

 

[Joe F]

Aquapel, and/or Rain-X. Preferably both. Hardly ever use wipers. And no, my wipers don't skip when I need to use them, despite all the naysayers over a year ago when I was waiting for my MS to be built.

Windshields properly cleaned and treated and not contaminated are not a problem for wipers, at least not on my late '16 built Tesla. Been doing it for 20 years on all my cars.

 

[arcus]

I have to ask why are rain sensing wipers such a big deal?
It rains I turn on wipers...it stops I turn them off.

Lately it's even less of a deal where I live: DFW - Monthly and Annual Precipitation