Elon Musk deletes twitter posts about P85D/85D efficiency increases

[403portside]

@Bet TSLA I honestly dont get the point of all of this. This isnt something they have fixed retroactively like the autolowering etc. This is something they have sold and not delivered without any info about it from day1. This is done 100% on purpose. So someone has figured out that delivering an unfinished product is OK without telling the customer up front. That is to me NOT OK. I cannot believe that someone actually defends this behaviour from Tesla at this point in time. Unless worried about stock prices. And if you are long on TSLA you should not defend this, because this will hurt Tesla in the long run if they never learn.

I am perfectly fine with autopilot not being enabled yet. I will be perfectly fine if I dont get a heated steering wheel. Autopilot they gave info upfront that it was coming later. Heated steering wheel has never been promised.

Range and speed has been promised and is actually still promised without any change in Norway....

I have never said I expected a perfect car either. If I expected a perfect car I wouldnt even consider thinking about a Tesla. But if Tesla knows that the car they are delivering is less then what I ordered I expect them to tell me and let me have an informed choice of refusing delivery. Otherwise they are tricking their customers deliberately, and that is not good if the press starts writing about it.

And please show me where on the ordering page Tesla states that I am an early adopter that needs be be willing to endure such lousy communication and potentially missing features? Its not like they are giving me a beta-tester discount or similar. So please get of your high horse and stop telling people how they should buy cars.

Will I most likely still buy the car? Yes.
Will I keep talking positively about Tesla to friends and coworkers if my car is delivered with poorer ranger then promised? Hell NO.

and thats a damn shame for such an expensive car I am not refreshing tmc to see new pictures, videos etc of the P85D anymore. I am refreshing to see if something happens regardings this annoying mess. Not even remotely exited that my car has gone into production this weekend....

+100. Well said. Getting tired of the 'early adopter' argument. I was an early adopter when I bought last year and will continue to be, but when a feature is promised when I plunk down my hard earned money I expect it to be there. Or at the very least I expect up front communication. I'm also long $TSLA and agree this approach to business is terrible for them in the long run.

 

[breser]

That's entirely a possibility as is communicating normal mode is held up due to whatever, people still get upset, the media catches hold of it, turns it into what they always turn it into and we're exactly where we are now. Because that's never happened before. :wink:

The consequences of the scenario you suggest are what exactly? A bunch of noise and upset customers? That's not so terribly different from what's happening now! Either way there would have been upset people. But there is at least two distinct differences from Tesla communicating about situations like this in advance.

1) It might cause a decrease in sales as more people cancel that would not have with the delayed communication.

2) It at least leaves Tesla in a position of being honest with their customer and letting them make a fully informed decision.

According to Elon's "The House Always Wins Blog," Tesla tries to do deals such that when they fall short they take the hit and not the other party. Sadly, it appears that Tesla has fallen short of this ideal in this case. I'd much rather have the conversation be "Tesla sometimes falls short of their plans, but they're always honest about that."

 

[Bet TSLA]

So please get of your high horse and stop telling people how they should buy cars.

You, and other complainers here, can buy cars however you like. I don't care. But your expectations are setting you up for disappointment. It should, I think, be clear to you that you will be disappointed. So why are you hurting yourself this way? Buy something that will make you happy.

 

[justaddsun]

Yeah @Chris, but it's this whole process that's a bit of a cluster****. This is Monday morning quarterbacking, but just as many people would have purchased the D upon introduction if it was billed as a badass halo supercar with, say, 25 less miles of range vs a regular P; just a slightly different set of buyers who care less about range would have ordered. Then if Tesla sends out an update 6 months later to give it even better range than a regular P, then that becomes heroic. And then you still get that same set of buyers subsequently ordering that you have now.

 

[lolachampcar]

Chris,
Funny you should mention the ride height thing. I just looked at the PD the other day and "Low" has two fingers between the tire and wheel well now so Standard is the new Low

 

[randompersonx]

Chris,
Funny you should mention the ride height thing. I just looked at the PD the other day and "Low" has two fingers between the tire and wheel well now so Standard is the new Low

So you are saying the P85D is lower than the P85+?

 

[darthy001]

You, and other complainers here, can buy cars however you like. I don't care. But your expectations are setting you up for disappointment. It should, I think, be clear to you that you will be disappointed. So why are you hurting yourself this way? Buy something that will make you happy.

Two words: no competition...

I am completely sold on electric cars due to the way they drive, and I need at least ~200miles of range even in winter.

So I am "stuck" with Tesla. Actually more annoyed by people trying to justify Tesla in this case than Teslas actions to be honest. I sort of expected something like this from Tesla.... I also expect them to fix it, but why this hopeless communication?:crying:

PS! I love the idea and products behind Tesla and really admire what Elon Musk is able to do, but I will never let poor behaviour like this slip by without "complaining". Saying nothing or making excuses is _not_ helping Tesla reach its longtime goals. That I am 100% certain about.

 

[Krugerrand]

The consequences of the scenario you suggest are what exactly? A bunch of noise and upset customers? That's not so terribly different from what's happening now! "

Right, exactly. Thanks for getting the point (sort of, since you then changed your mind). The end result is always the same: somebody isn't happy. So people claiming that it would be any different had they known beforehand are either being naïve or obtuse.

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...just a slightly different set of buyers who care less about range would have ordered. Then if Tesla sends out an update 6 months later to give it even better range than a regular P, then that becomes heroic.

...and then you get people complaining that had they known Tesla was going to do a software update 6 months later they'd have purchased a D, waited for the better mileage, and had the car of their dreams. That's how it works around here.

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So you are saying the P85D is lower than the P85+?

Wait for it... :biggrin:

 

[darthy001]

Right, exactly. Thanks for getting the point (sort of, since you then changed your mind). The end result is always the same: somebody isn't happy. So people claiming that it would be any different had they known beforehand are either being naïve or obtuse.

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...and then you get people complaining that had they known Tesla was going to do a software update 6 months later they'd have purchased a D, waited for the better mileage, and had the car of their dreams. That's how it works around here.

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Wait for it... :biggrin:

First point is a real difference for me. People unhappy based on accurate information is a risk of doing business and perfectly acceptable. People unhappy due to being kept in the dark is simply bad for business.

Second point I dont see how people can complain about a known/advertised feature actually being implemented 6months later!? Or am I missing some detail in the last update there?

 

[breser]

First point is a real difference for me. People unhappy based on accurate information is a risk of doing business and perfectly acceptable. People unhappy due to being kept in the dark is simply bad for business.

That is exactly my point. If Tesla is withholding information they knew about the vehicles not meeting the advertised specifications then that is an unethical business practice in my opinion.

 

[dennis]

So you are saying the P85D is lower than the P85+?

No, he is saying that the D rides higher.

 

[aronth5]

Which would explain the lawyers making Elon delete the Twitter posts.

And you know this how?

 

[lolachampcar]

Sorry, I should have been clearer.

If memory serves me, I believe my P+ had a little over two fingers distance between the top of the tire (21s) and the fender lip when at Standard height. Low was a little less than a finger. My very quick look at the PD gave roughly two fingers which is a bit lower than my old car in Standard. I did confirm that the PD was in always Low.

"Fingers" are placing your fingers on the top of the tire perpendicular to the direction of travel as a quick way to check ride height.

 

[wk057]

Accidentally posted this in the Tracking thread first:

Well, spur of the moment, so, no camera setups yet but my fiance and I set off on a quick drive and back in both the P85 and P85D.

Didn't do everything exactly like I was planning for my video trip, but, same route, no climate control, no craziness, both no pre-warm or anything (it is 62F out today) and both unplugged from 90% SoC when we left. Went on the highway with traffic, in total about 25 miles round trip. P85D followed the P85 the whole way. Slightly wet conditions.

P85 arrived back having used 367 Wh/mi. P85D arrived back having used 455 Wh/mi. That's pretty close to my original 25% more figure, however I will do the even more controlled test when it is nicer, with GoPros.

 

[dennis]

And you know this how?

I said would explain - none of us actually know what happened. But I subscribe to the theory offered previously by others that the deleted posts (P85D range, longer range battery for the S) represent forward looking statements that are not represented in official Tesla communications. The posts about future capabilities that were not deleted (Roadster upgrade, battery swap "beta") are available as teslamotors.com blog posts.

 

[jerry33]

I said would explain - none of us actually know what happened. But I subscribe to the theory offered previously by others that the deleted posts (P85D range, longer range battery for the S) represent forward looking statements that are not represented in official Tesla communications. The posts about future capabilities that were not deleted (Roadster upgrade, battery swap "beta") are available as teslamotors.com blog posts.

And there may be a blog post coming along on the range issue as well.

 

[sandpiper]

And there may be a blog post coming along on the range issue as well.

i would say that there had better be something coming soon. Much as I think Tesla is a great company, it is not reasonable to advertise a car to deliver one thing and provide another. Nor is it legal. The early adopter argument is not a catchall for every error.

 

[yobigd20]

I dunno where all you are driving but it's winter time here and efficiency sucks. Optimal efficiency (Tesla's claims) are only valid for 70 degree weather areas. If it's 30 degrees outside 450kw/mi is quite normal.

 

[dsm363]

That's entirely a possibility as is communicating normal mode is held up due to whatever, people still get upset, the media catches hold of it, turns it into what they always turn it into and we're exactly where we are now. Because that's never happened before. :wink:

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No, it absolutely would NOT solve the entire issue. You might not be upset, but I guarantee someone else would take your place.

It's also entirely possible that Tesla does mess things up now and then. Their communication hasn't been ideal to this point. The people work very hard and I've never met someone who works their that wasn't enthusiastic and working to make things better but that doesn't mean they can do no wrong.

 

[dennis]

It's also entirely possible that Tesla does mess things up now and then. Their communication hasn't been ideal to this point. The people work very hard and I've never met someone who works their that wasn't enthusiastic and working to make things better but that doesn't mean they can do no wrong.

+1. Those characteristics, plus their breakthrough agenda and desire to eventually make things right for the customer is why many of us are willing to cut them some slack, even when they screw up.