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Elon Musk says some unwise things about Apple and their hires from Tesla !

Discussion in 'TSLA Investor Discussions' started by Quant, Oct 8, 2015.

  1. Quant

    Quant Member

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    As someone who admires Elon Musk hugely, and would actually take a real bullet for him, I was quite disappointed by his some of his latest comments about Apple.

    1. Why say bad stuff about your former employees? How will current employees feel about that ? I cannot believe that this is wise, respectful, or helpful in any way for recruiting or retaining great engineers. Calling Apple the graveyard for Tesla engineers who could not make it at Tesla! Were ALL Apple hires actually fired by Tesla? If not, could there be lawsuit here by one of the former Tesla engineers ? You think those humans who went to work at Apple have zero friends at Tesla who care about them and their friendship ? Come on Elon....think for heaven's sake !! Is all this money and net worth going to your head and your ego?

    Apple has money and muscle, they could be upset by what Musk just said and offer $10 million signing bonus to his absolute best engineers and a ton of stock options, and even a guaranteed 5 year contract and blow $ 50 million without batting an eye?

    What will Elon Musk then do ? Want to play chess with Apple's cash hoard ?

    2. Trying to call out the Apple Watch, the new large iPad and the stylus etc as examples of no real innovation is something that I agree with......but given they are both Silicon Valley companies, and Apple is nowhere near taking any business from Tesla from any of their current products, in terms of revenues, that was totally unnecessary , in my opinion.

    It will piss off a lot of people at Apple, and they will now be more determined.

    Why go stoke people who have deep pockets ? What do you gain ? What exactly is the risk- reward calculation here? I'd say that was definitely NOT smart, for a strategic guy, who is also a very shrewd businessman, Elon, sorry but that was not thought through !

    I think Elon does need a vacation. I think he is super stressed out and it shows ...with the crying and the rest of this stuff.... in the other recent interviews !!

    I strongly suggest Tesla FOCUS on their work!!! We are your investors! Elon Musk you have fiduciary duty to us !

    1. Get the Model X production issues solved .

    2. Get the Gigafactory up and running and launch the energy storage business.

    3. Unveil the Model X and Y

    and take the HIGH ROAD !!!

    I totally agree with everything else that Elon said, for example, Apple can't exactly outsource the production of a car to a supplier like Foxconn. I think Apppe will fail if they try to manufacture a car!

    I believe Tesla has a huge opportunity to be a huge company and this kind of idiocy is just not something I expected from someone of Elon's intellectual and strategic caliber ....or wisdom !
     
  2. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    Suggest you provide a link to what Musk said so others can read it and decide for themselves what to make of it.
     
  3. MikeC

    MikeC Active Member

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  4. Nevek

    Nevek Overt Member

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    Just a little friendly competition. Healthy.
     
  5. evme

    evme Member

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    This kind of response is not strange for Musk, he made a similar responses in the past. That is Musk being fed up with the media response. He gave a similar response about Richard Branson's Virgin Galactic despite both of them being friends. The reason was because the clueless media keeps trying to make it sound like SpaceX and Virgin Galactic were competitors despite anyone who knows a thing or two realizes that what Branson is building can't get you to orbit. It is a fun awesome attraction, and I think even Musk signed up for it. But to compare it to SpaceX was just pure ignorance.

    I think Musk knows full well what Apple is doing, the media does not. And they throw their speculation in his face which pisses him off.

    Simply put I think the media is speculating way ahead of themselves. Personally I don't think Apple is building what most of the media thinks they are building.
     
  6. SBenson

    SBenson Active Member

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    Totally love it.

    "They have hired people we’ve fired. We always jokingly call Apple the 'Tesla Graveyard.' If you don’t make it at Tesla, you go work at Apple. I’m not kidding," Musk says.

    (maybe it’s just me but) I will totally applaud my top boss saying something like that.
     
  7. Krugerrand

    Krugerrand Active Member

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    1. I imagine he's said worse right to their faces. He's a tough boss from all accounts and has never suffered any sort of ego problems. While his comments may not be 100% accurate (perhaps a couple employees left of their own accord), a saying like that comes at least from a modicum of truth.

    Apple already apparently offers a significant signing bonus plus (if I recall correctly) 60% higher salary. Sometimes money isn't everything and we know that Elon doesn't do what he does for the money, so he's quite likely to attract (and want) people who believe in the greater good as he does.

    2. Really no different than comments he made about BMW in one of the ERs, which caused a bunch of giggling. Yeah, not nice and all that but it's real and I'll always take real and honest every day even if it hurts. On the other hand, there are times when he could sink a ship and doesn't. For instance the company that made the struts for the Falcon 9 that caused it to explode...the company totally screwed that up with none of the struts passing the tests the company said they would. That cost MILLIONS of dollars for more than just SpaceX and for a part that probably doesn't cost more than a few hundred. Elon chose specifically to not name that company publically and by doing so did them a huge favor. I also don't mind him showing his emotions and shedding some tears, it shows he's got a heart and the importance to him of what he's doing.

    What I'd like is to hear the whole interview, preferably in English, because I want to make sure that his quote wasn't taken out of context as has happened so many times before. I'd also want to be able to hear his voice and judge it for frustration, stress and other emotions, which can cause people to say things they otherwise might choose not to. But hey, if it lights a fire under Apple's butt and they really are making an EV then let them be irked by Elon's comments and come out swinging with a super BEV - that's to all our benefits.
     
  8. Quant

    Quant Member

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    I agree with the above as well.

    But, that is NOT the point !

    Saying such bad things about your former engineers is never helpful ! I've had many execs I worked with who went to work for competitors and they were my friends too! If my CEO said stuff like that about my former friends I would not be happy. Yes, we are all hired help, but why insult people in public ? Elon himself said that Apple paid $200 K signing bonuses to some engineers...I doubt Apple did that AFTER that engineer was fired by Tesla!

    If Apple indeed was NOT building a car ( which I don't think they are ) , why say this kind of stuff to piss them off ? So, Apple can take $20 - $ 30 Billion of their cash stuck in Europe and create a JV with BMW or Mercedes ?

    Why not take the high road ? Where is the risk- reward calculation in saying stuff like that when Apple has like $ 150 Billion in cash and you are burning over $ billion a year and not generating any cash yet ?

    Just simply in terms of business strategy and game theory applied to the human aspect in all of this, I believe this was NOT smart and will NOT achieve anything positive for Tesla, its employees, customers or investors !

    Maybe someone can explain how this is positive ?
     
  9. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

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    I don't see how Elon would get into any legal trouble or scare away current employees with the comment quoted. For one, he did not name any specific employee, and his comment was said in a way that he was not being completely serious, even mentioning that inside Tesla they joke about it. Even if you took it seriously, all it implies is that Tesla is a tougher work environment than Apple. It doesn't imply the employee is unfit for employment overall (that is when legal trouble happens, esp. if a specific employee is named).
     
  10. Krugerrand

    Krugerrand Active Member

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    Where do you make the connection that these former engineers where 'execs'? And what does one employee being friends with a former employee have to do with 'business'? You sound as if a CEO is viewed as an employee's friend and thus needs to protect feelings where former employees (who were fired) are concerned.

    Your doubt about Apple offering more money to fired Tesla employees is interesting. So Elon is lying AND purposely trying to make the other team angry? Meh. That's not how he thinks. But he is an excellent strategist and game player. He's several steps ahead of everyone else and has shown that time and again.

    You're obviously a much nicer, kinder person but I think you've blurred some employee, former employee and CEO lines.
     
  11. Quant

    Quant Member

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    I did not say that the former Tesla engineers were executives.

    As for Apple hiring Telsa engineers Elon is the one who said a few months ago that Apple was offering $200 K bonuses and doubling their salaries. I doubt Apple offered that to an engineer who was fired from Tesla. It just does not compute !
     
  12. rjcbox

    rjcbox Member

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    I don't see anything wrong with what Musk said, business is business
     
  13. Quant

    Quant Member

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    I do think if Apple does try to build an EV they may try a JV with BMW or Mercedes, probably the former.

    And Apple could easily drop $30 Billion cash into a JV and lock up some battery supplier contracts and lithium too !

    My point is ( if as I believe APPLE is not actually looking to build an EV themselves ) , why goad them into a huge JV with BMW ? How does that help TESLA investors ??
     
  14. Krugerrand

    Krugerrand Active Member

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    But you put these sentences together. Saying such bad things about your former engineers is never helpful ! I've had many execs I worked with who went to work for competitors and they were my friends too! If my CEO said stuff like that about my former friends I would not be happy.

    So, you're calling him a liar. And there is no inside 'Tesla Graveyard' joke.
     
  15. eye.surgeon

    eye.surgeon Member

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    If that statement from Musk surprises you , you don't know Musk very well, he's known to be a jerk of a boss. I respect his accomplishments but he's definitely a graduate of the Steve Job's school of dictatorial bosses.

    And you'd really take an actual bullet for some guy you don't even know because you like the car? This isn't a cult, you can relax a little.
     
  16. drinkerofkoolaid

    drinkerofkoolaid Active Member

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    If Apple hired 100 Tesla Motors employees, all of whom were cleaning staff, bloggers would ignore the job title, and focus on the company names.

    No, Apple could not drop $30 billion to lock up the lithium ion battery supply chain.

    Elon's comment helps investors because it puts Elon in charge of the narrative being discussed by journalists about the matter, unless Apple is willing to comment on the matter, which Apple most likely won't. Also, it shuts up the journalists who are yapping about Apple's rumored vehicle. In all likelihood, this might help Apple, since Apple's stock is probably being hurt by rumors about an "Apple Car" since it is creating unnecessary uncertainty about how Apple will invest its cash. All of these rumors put into question Apple's long term focus and intentions.
     
  17. Quant

    Quant Member

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    Huh ? About Tesla engineers vs, execs I worked with, it's a human dimension thing. You are taking 1+ 1 and making it 3 . I can't help that !

    And, saying " it does not compute " or, it does not add up, is totally NOT the same thing as calling someone a liar ! I would never do that!

    You can defend Elon as much as you want, I am fine with it totally, because I totally admire him immensely!

    However, when someone is not being wise, I call it as I see it. I do not want to see Elon or Tesla knock in a 'own goal '.

    Hey, I am a TSLA investor too ...just like you...in this forum,...and I'm here for the long haul.

    I put Elon Musk as the number 1 person in the world who I admire the most. Having said that, I just think what he said was unwise from an HR standpoint or human game theory standpoint.

    - - - Updated - - -

     
  18. Krugerrand

    Krugerrand Active Member

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    And I'm out.
     
  19. DaveT

    DaveT Searcher of green pastures

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    I have to admit, Elon's quote did lack a bit of tact. But I love his confidence. So it all balances out for me. Also, I think there was some humor in it as well and shouldn't be taken completely seriously.

    Here's the full interview:
    interview link
     
  20. Quant

    Quant Member

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    Yes I would! And that's my choice. FYI, I am 100 agnostic and rational. In a hypothetical situation like that, I just would do I t because the world has more to gain from Elon being alive, vs. me. Same would apply if it was a young child. Just math and economic and other value potential over time of my worth vs. someone like Elon, or a young child, as another different example for rational decision making.

    Anyways, whatever you want to me call is fine.
     

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