Elon Musk says some unwise things about Apple and their hires from Tesla !

[tftf]

Tesla employee on Elon Musk's Apple slam - Business Insider

This is a great read and definitely lightens up the situation.

How about a good PR/communications department that checks all exec interviews, especially those by given the CEO, before they go live so he doesn't have to backtrack on Twitter?

A simple countercheck is standard for all written interviews at larger companies.

It's also telling that this interview was already published at the end of September by Handelsblatt. It was online for over 10 days.

Musk apparently didn't feel to need to rectify/clarify his comments until the interview was widely circulated on the Internet by U.S. publications.

After the botched X "release" (where no outsider got a car or even all detailed X specs were released) Tesla shot itself in the foot again a few days later...

 

[anticitizen13.7]

I don't know if this has already been said earlier in the thread, but I had the oddball thought that maybe Elon was deliberately trash-talking Apple in order to rile them up (extra prodding) into actually going through with EV plans. Taunting competitors, especially an group of elite Silicon Valley engineers, saying "you can't do it" will only spur them to work harder.

Elon's goal, and the stated mission of Tesla, is to accelerate the transition from ICE to EV. With many of the existing big players making halfhearted attempts, publishing vaporware slides, or actively trying to discredit EVs, perhaps it would take a shocker like Apple to keep things moving along.

Even if Tesla reaches its goal of 500,000 vehicles produced per year by the 2020 timeframe, that is a drop in the bucket. The U.S. new car market alone is around 18 MILLION cars per year.

Musk says the iWatch isn't compelling yet. How about he spends less time trash talking and more time fixing his uncompelling Model X that has no utility and barely any sport?

I don't think Elon is wrong on this one.

I read every Apple Watch review I could find, and the general consensus was that Apple Watch was an interesting, but not all that compelling product. An iPhone already has a base price of $650 (full retail). If I am paying an additional $350 on top of that for an accessory, it better be something that's revolutionary.

Also, Apple's software QA has been pretty bad over the past few years. An iOS 8 bug last year caused Verizon subscribers to lose phone service. A suspected bug in iOS 9 is currently causing iPhones to randomly become unresponsive (only Home + Power will reset) and have burning hot home buttons. The only reason Apple isn't suffering more is that Android handsets are often riddled with carrier crapware, have even worse software support that is largely dependent on lazy carriers, and Windows Phone is basically irrelevant. The Apple I see today is a bit stagnant. However, boredom can produce innovation, and I'm sure that something new like an Apple Car could rejuvenate the creative spirit at Apple.

 

[MitchJi]

Hi,

Answer to What do Apple employees think of Elon Musk? - Quora

Upvoted by James Wong, Powertrain Test Engineer at Tesla Motors

I can answer a facet of the question.

I worked full time for Tesla for a year while in school. And got headhunted from an Apple recruiter for a much more lucrative position (better pay, better title, etc.) I declined after long consideration. I have no regrets.

The reason is, people who work for Tesla are immersed with, not the car or the "I work for a sexy company" status, but with the meaning it carries. Tesla's mission statement, "accelerate the transition of sustainable transportation" isn't taken lightly when it comes to the dedicated employees Tesla hires.

So what (I believe) Elon means is, "we hired you because you believe in our mission and are ready to dedicate your time and energy to building a better future with us"—loyalty and commitment is the key underlying message here.

So when a well established employee decides to break the promise to join another tech company, such as Apple, with the promise of better pay and free time, Elon suggests that you are at fault and should not have been part of the team in the first place.

It is a known fact that Tesla employees work long hours, and don't get paid as well as other tech companies, but they aren't taken advantage of because they KNOW very well what they are in for before signing the dotted lines. And people seem to forget, Tesla is still in a financial struggle. It cannot be compared to Apple or Google, and yet it is because of its exponential growth in demand and popularity.

The message Elon brings across so bluntly isn't a hate message towards Apple. Remember Tesla's current marketing strategy screams Apple all over. If anything Tesla looks up to Apple, and by Tesla, I mean Elon and the rest of the executive team.

Tesla is a rigorous company, it's a marathon, and it's a boot camp. There's free cereal and that's it. It isn't trying to attract talent with free stuff and benefits, it attracts talent through its core belief: are you crazy enough to change the world with us?

And that is what I think the receipt of its success comes from. Hard and pure dedication from employees and the entire exec. team.

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Musk says the iWatch isn't compelling yet. How about he spends less time trash talking and more time fixing his uncompelling Model X
1. that has no utility.
2.and barely any sport?

Number 1 is clearly incorrect.

I think you should explain what you mean by number 2. You know that it's the best handling SUV in the world, and one of the fastest?

 

[ClownMouth]

At this point I'd like to see Elon come out and expand on his thoughts in regard to Apple in an interview/something-other-than-Twitter. This was the third or fourth time I can recall he's made a sideways remark about them (two I remember were at least in response to a direct question, but I think it was the most recent earnings call where he brought up Apple on his own). He's certainly proven himself many times over so he doesn't "owe" anybody anything, but if he's going to mention them and then come back and tweet some type of "clarification", do us all the favor of going all the way and explaining why this one company keeps coming to his mind.

I guess what bothers me, and of course this is just an opinion, is that Tesla's mission is hard enough as it is. There are plenty of "enemies" in the ICE manufacturers, at least one of which has shown they are willing to cheat to pretend their cars are EPA-approved. I would think Apple would be a huge ally in that (1) they are big/popular enough to move the needle on EV adoption, and (2) since they have no auto manufacturing experience, the truth is that all these people who would then consider an EV would probably also realize that Apple's isn't as good as Tesla's. What a great deal! Like us Tesla fans, these Apple fans can be very loyal, and I don't think its the Android users who are buying Tesla vehicles for the most part (again, my opinion). Whether he's speaking the truth or not, he's just making enemies of potential customers.

The last thing is that there might come a time when it's not a lack of batteries that limits Tesla's sales, but rather inexperience on the manufacturer's side of things. And while neither Apple nor Google have auto manufacturing experience, I'd assume a few billion dollars from either of them might purchase a few more robots, etc, to help speed things up. Why piss off a potential funding source/partner, however unlikely this may seem right now? Hard to understand, especially if all that's pissing him off is poaching of a few engineers.

 

[MaadP]

I didn't see anything wrong in Elon's statement.

May be he is little upset about Apple trying to hire Tesla engineers. Apple as all the right to tempt Tesla engineers away and Elon has all the right to voice his opinion.

Moreover I don't think Apple is a competitor to Tesla. (I wish they are - it would be healthy for EV). Even if Apple start making cars they will be light years behind Tesla no matter how many Tesla engineers they hire. Honestly I think Apple will be a competitor to Google car not Tesla. Tesla has enough cash to get the Model 3 out. I don't see anyone stopping it. Fat wallet of Apple is not going to scare Elon anymore - may be in 2008 - not anymore. I think Tesla should take their time in bringing it out and find the features (as Elon said) that will distinguish model 3 from other similar price range cars. I have no doubt he will deliver what he has promised. People who doubt him -please take another spin in your model S. If you ever wondered about game changer - this is it. I don't think Apple or any other car manufacturer will be able replicate it.

After model 3, it is anyone's guess what will happen to Tesla. It is very likely Elon will shift his attention full time to SpaceX. His goals are much loftier, I think, than others. He always wanted other bigger car companies to start making EV. In fact he said he is ready to share Tesla's designs with anyone who seriously want it. A small car company like Tesla is unlikely to make big environmental impact unless other giants join the movement. This is a man who really care for the planet and want to change how/what energy we use. I hope Apple, Google and many others join the fray. May be then, the big car manufacturers will take their head out of their armpits and get over the oil addiction.

So if Elon is a little harsh on Apple - just give him a break. I don't think he has said anything that is not in many people's mind. Apple is starting to miss SJ. I really hope they will come with something big that will help the environment.

Meanwhile lets enjoy our rides in Model S.

 

[Auzie]

The reality is that it (outsourcing car making) can and it happens. Today. I already gave an example. Simply denying a reality doesn't make it so.

schonelucht, sorry for the late reply with so many posts in between, time zone got in the way

I inserted (outsourcing car making) in your post, to clarify that your argument above is that the car making can be outsourced by Apple. My counterargument to that is below.


When the consequences of a product failure are not severe (costly and/or life threatening), the product manufacture can be outsourced. There is not much business risk introduced by outsourcing, the faulty product can be either replaced (Apple way) or refunded. Customers are happy with the replacement, no one suffers any damages. That works well.


When product failures can be potentially deadly and quite costly, such high business risk can not be outsourced, it inherently falls under the business that brands the product. It other words, it would be quite unwise and irresponsible of a business like Apple to compromise its brand by stamping cars made by someone else with the Apple brand.


Apple would be putting their brand at high risk if they do not fully control all the risks in their car making business. Imagine the scenario: Someone else stuffs up when making the icars, Apple foots the recall bill, faces the customers wrath and the brand damage. I do not see that working so well.


Tesla is moving towards more and more vertical integration for the purpose of mitigating the supply chain risks. It may be easier for them to control the risk in-house than to control their suppliers.

Just earlier you were claiming the main added value for car manufacturers is developing the supply chain, manufacturing and final assembly. Yet none of the reasons you invest in Tesla have anything remotely to do with those.

On your second point, you are correct. Before Tesla, car makers were just not my investment cup of tea, quite the opposite. There is too much business risk in car making that is not visible to investors, as evidenced by VW saga. If we compare investing in the Tesla business to investing in any ice car makers business, the downside risks would be similar - product failures with potentially deadly consequences, costly recalls, many risks invisible to investors.


My investment in Tesla is for the reasons outlined in my post up-thread: because Tesla is the first mover in a huge space with zero competition and it is a business underlined with a cause. The first mover upside potential trumps the car maker business risks in this case.

 

[wdolson]

While Elon Musk is known for speaking his mind, I don't really like to hear that kind of trash talk. The saying goes be careful who you step on on the way up because you'll meet them on the way down. Musk may never have need of a strategic partnership with Apple and his companies may do just fine without them, but it's not wise to tick off people from another company who are predisposed to have at least some ideals in common with you in a world where there are a whole heck of a lot of people and companies that are diametrically opposed.

As for whether Apple can successfully build a car or not, the just is out for me. They have the money, and they have a lot of supplier connections they can use. Traditional car suppliers would probably be more interested in working with Apple than Tesla because they know Apple has deep pockets and a better rep than Tesla had when they were trying to get the Roadster and Model S out the door. A car is a major departure for Apple, they have some excellent battery management technology and the computing skill to design the electronics of a car, but powertrains and power electronics are very different animals than digital electronics.

Hiring the expertise is one thing, but there is also a thing called institutional knowledge that comes about when an organization has been doing something for a while. Institutional knowledge can be a two edged sword, it can resist change when it's needed but it can also bring a wealth of expertise to a problem that isn't in books. Tesla overcame this limitation by having a maniacal leader with the vision pulling things together. The leader also has one of the broadest understanding of science and technology in the world. Because Elon knows so much about so many different areas, he was able to identify the problem areas early and find expertise to fill in gaps. He was also the glue holding it all together.

Jobs served this same role in all of Apple's major groundbreaking projects. He didn't have the scientific and engineering knowledge Elon has, but he had a vision for the project and served as the glue holding everything together. Tim Cook is a good leader, but he isn't the visionary Jobs was. Jobs isn't here to serve as the glue and unless a strong leader emerges, the Apple car project might not live up to its potential. They risk farming out too much because they don't know what is most important to keep in house and what they can trust to suppliers. We'll see what happens.

In any case, Apple would probably be a good candidate to share Tesla's supercharger network. They are a natural alliance there. However trash talking Apple could lead to bad blood and Apple going a different direction. Apple could build their own SC network, but it would be reinventing the wheel.

 

[jerry33]

There were only a few things Elon could do:

1. Make a joke out of it (which is what he did).

2. Ignore the question, or waffle. (Never a good choice because of negative speculation).

3. Say that he was sorry to see them leave. (Not a good choice either because it implies that there are few or no talented engineers left.)

 

[Krugerrand]

At this point I'd like to see Elon come out and expand on his thoughts in regard to Apple in an interview/something-other-than-Twitter. This was the third or fourth time I can recall he's made a sideways remark about them (two I remember were at least in response to a direct question, but I think it was the most recent earnings call where he brought up Apple on his own). He's certainly proven himself many times over so he doesn't "owe" anybody anything, but if he's going to mention them and then come back and tweet some type of "clarification", do us all the favor of going all the way and explaining why this one company keeps coming to his mind.

So that people can dissect even more words that he's said/typed and go even more overboard? Remember that in this particular case he didn't bring up the topic of Apple, the interviewer did AND the interviewer included the following in the question: Apple is poaching your 'most important' engineers. Elon started his answer with: Most important? (As in, are you kidding me? Who said/who decided/who thinks they've been our 'most important' engineers? - Which was clearly laughable to Elon.)

The truth is that most people are replaceable, they just think they aren't. I imagine that anyone who's been fired from Tesla and gone to Apple or would leave Tesla for a higher paying position at Apple doesn't fall within Elon's definition of 'most important' no matter who they are. I also imagine the interviewer loaded that question on purpose in hopes of getting a reaction from Elon. Congrats to the interviewer for asking the question that now has the media turning itself inside out with glee and purposely forgetting the context and spirit of the question and answer.

I guess what bothers me, and of course this is just an opinion, is that Tesla's mission is hard enough as it is. There are plenty of "enemies" in the ICE manufacturers, at least one of which has shown they are willing to cheat to pretend their cars are EPA-approved. I would think Apple would be a huge ally in that (1) they are big/popular enough to move the needle on EV adoption, and (2) since they have no auto manufacturing experience, the truth is that all these people who would then consider an EV would probably also realize that Apple's isn't as good as Tesla's. What a great deal! Like us Tesla fans, these Apple fans can be very loyal, and I don't think its the Android users who are buying Tesla vehicles for the most part (again, my opinion). Whether he's speaking the truth or not, he's just making enemies of potential customers.

At this point if a silly/fun/trash talk/off-the-cuff comment like this is going to turn Apple into an 'enemy' of Tesla then they were never going to be 'allies' in the first place. You need to have tougher skin than that in business. How many times have OEM executives made cutting remarks about Tesla and the media ignores it all? Answer: too many to count or remember. In terms of customers, most have short memories and what's important to them is that they get their hard-earned money's worth from a product.

The last thing is that there might come a time when it's not a lack of batteries that limits Tesla's sales, but rather inexperience on the manufacturer's side of things. And while neither Apple nor Google have auto manufacturing experience, I'd assume a few billion dollars from either of them might purchase a few more robots, etc, to help speed things up. Why piss off a potential funding source/partner, however unlikely this may seem right now? Hard to understand, especially if all that's pissing him off is poaching of a few engineers.

Again, a company that takes these types of comments seriously is not a company that's good at 'business'. As well, Tesla is now positioned such that getting funds isn't a problem or 'the' problem.

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However trash talking Apple could lead to bad blood and Apple going a different direction. Apple could build their own SC network, but it would be reinventing the wheel.

That's one way of looking at, but the other side is if you wanted to work with Tesla (as in partner with them with the Supercharger Network as you suggest) why would you poach engineers from said potential partner company by offering a substantial signing bonus AND significant increase in wage?! That doesn't seem to be any better of an approach than Elon making a funny in response to a loaded question. Because Apple is bigger and has more cash at hand that means they can walk all over Tesla, but Tesla can't fight back? Please. Much ado about nothing.

 

[ClownMouth]

Kruggerand, I actually agree with almost the entirety of your response, I just don't see the point in picking this battle. You are correct that this round of Apple comments was in response to a direct question, but that isn't always the case. The fact that people should have thicker skin (which I agree with) doesn't mean everyone does. I also belong to an Apple board where a few members said they would not buy a Tesla after hearing Musk's comments. Tesla sells every vehicle they can make, and that will continue to be the case for quite some time, so these few people don't make a difference. I get it. But why bother in the first place? Seems especially strange when compared to his recent responses to VW questions, where he took the high road at an easy target. So while he has every right to speak freely, and the world should have thicker skin, I still don't see the point, that's all.

 

[Vizir]

I loved his response! I dislike Apple for trying to claim that they invented everything and I believe that they are now a purely litigious lawyer firm and not a tech company.

 

[SW2Fiddler]

I was going to express my thoughts, but K-Rand did it for me, only more clearly and confidently than I would have.
Here's my temp avatar in solidarity.

 

[iKhalid]

I'm not sure how many of you find his comment to be OK! Yeah it's "funny" and all but think about it for a moment... I personally find it immature. He shouldn't create enemies out of his former employees by making fun of them. At some point they put up with him in the past and contributed in making what Tesla is Tesla right now. If I were a Tesla employee right now, I would be pissed at making fun of my past colleagues. Just for having them fired doesn't mean they were bad. A week ago he took the release of the Model X irresponsibly and now this!

 

[MikeC]

 

[Krugerrand]

Kruggerand, I actually agree with almost the entirety of your response, I just don't see the point in picking this battle. You are correct that this round of Apple comments was in response to a direct question, but that isn't always the case.

But we're talking about this specific incident and thusly he did not pick the battle but he was forced to play. Could he have answered differently? Sure. But I think jerry33 nailed it. Rock and a hard place, Elon chose the rock.

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I personally find it immature.

Firstly, he's a man in his 40's, immature is part of that. Every wife knows this to be a fact, but we still love you. :biggrin:

 

[wdolson]

That's one way of looking at, but the other side is if you wanted to work with Tesla (as in partner with them with the Supercharger Network as you suggest) why would you poach engineers from said potential partner company by offering a substantial signing bonus AND significant increase in wage?! That doesn't seem to be any better of an approach than Elon making a funny in response to a loaded question. Because Apple is bigger and has more cash at hand that means they can walk all over Tesla, but Tesla can't fight back? Please. Much ado about nothing.

True. Poaching employees is kind of a passive aggressive form of trash talk.

In any case, Elon Musk is a very emotional person and has a history of coming across strongly in the moment. I respect his accomplishments and his abilities, he is a flawed human being just like everyone else. He's quite possibly one of the most brilliant industrialists active today, but that doesn't make him a saint.

 

[stopcrazypp]

The interviewer asked a loaded question. Elon chose to respond in a semi-joking manner. The media chose to overreact and read in a whole bunch things into that comment (which I'm sure was exactly what the interviewer was hoping would happen by asking such a question).

If he was strong at PR (like some CEOs) he would dodge the question, but Elon is not the type to do that.

 

[EarlyAdopter]

My take is Elon isn't worried about competing with Apple over EV sales. If anything, he welcomes it. What he's not so welcoming of is competing with Apple over talent.

 

[bwa]

OP well written. I saw before-after pics of Musk 3 years ago and now, and he's aged 15 years. He needs major delegation and vacation features. But please, would someone step up to be capable to handle that?

Tesla, Space X, solar ... Great boy toys, and factories are fun to design (for science/math/engineering/biology/computer/accounting geeks like us), but he's obviously overworked. He knew he would be when he double timed it, and now it's showing he needs to seriously counteract. For his health and performance. Grow some features. Aka learn to teach, assess, manage manage delegate rest rest etc.

How about a four day work week? More work per day, almost double the day off interval. Idk. Anything, it seems.

We all need to be human, and it seems like his friends are his factories, which now is even good, but ... That's kinda like work too. I'm not recommending a radical departure. Just adjustment, growth.

 

[Causalien]

Apple actively poaching TSLA employee is a good thing. We are still not out of the startup mode so anyone who is not aligned should leave. Apple is doing TSLA a favor so that it cost TSLA nothing. Think about it.

Zappos had to offer employees $2000 to quit for the same effect.

Elon gets king crazy sometimes. It is absolutely necessary as a startup that has not reached escape velocity yet. Maybe when it becomes a mature legacy company like GM, Elon will need to take a back seat for someone more aware of what political correctness and social justice is. In order to not hurt the feelings of the newer pampered generation.