Elon Musk Says Tesla Is 'Very Close' To Level 5 Self-Driving Technology

[mikes_fsd]

Really? Did you read the description of FSD Elon was selling in 2016?

I am curious what do you think of the 2020 FSD verbiage?
2020

Vs
2016 (without your crafty cropping skills)

 

[diplomat33]

I am curious what do you think of the 2020 FSD verbiage?
2020
View attachment 568491
Vs
2016 (without your crafty cropping skills)
View attachment 568492

You are being misleading. You are trying to make it look like Tesla has not really changed their FSD verbiage since the text is the same. But you are comparing the 2016 screenshot that people used to see when they were ordering a new car and selecting FSD to a now defunct page on Autopilot. That is not the 2020 FSD verbiage. That 2020 screenshot is from an older Autopilot page that is not linked anymore from the Tesla website. If you click on "learn more" it takes you to the new autopilot page that does not have that verbiage.

If you are going to use the 2016 FSD text when ordering a car, then compare it to the 2020 FSD verbiage when you order a car. Compare apples to apples:

 

[mikes_fsd]

You are being misleading

Uhm, tell me what you see under "Full Self-Driving Capability" on this page Autopilot

https://www.tesla.com/autopilot

It is closer to the bottom of that page...

That is not the 2020 FSD verbiage.

That is the 2020 verbiage. Again, please actually follow the link to the tesla site and read for yourself.

I took that screenshot directly from that site, today, I did not find a random screenshot as @diplomat33 would have you believe.

 

[diplomat33]

Uhm, tell me what you see under "Full Self-Driving Capability" on this page Autopilot

https://www.tesla.com/autopilot

It is closer to the bottom of that page...

That is the 2020 verbiage. Again, please actually follow the link to the tesla site and read for yourself.

That page is the old Autopilot page that is not accessible from the Tesla website anymore. It is only available if you type in the address directly into your browser. I guess Tesla never disabled the page so you can still get to it if you type in the direct address. But it is not the "live" 2020 FSD verbiage.

 

[mikes_fsd]

@diplomat33 when in doubt, please use the Wayback Machine... Wayback Machine
You can compare snapshots between dates for yourself.

 

[diplomat33]

@diplomat33 when in doubt, please use the Wayback Machine... Wayback Machine
You can compare snapshots between dates for yourself.

I am not sure what you are getting at.

Yes, it's still clickable but it is not the current page for Autopilot. It's the old Autopilot page that Tesla is not using anymore. You cannot get it to from the main Tesla.com website anymore. It is only available if you type in the direct address in your browser. If I am wrong, show me how you do get to that page from the main Tesla.com website.

 

[mikes_fsd]

Well I did not type that link directly into the address bar, I just searched google for 2 words "Tesla autopilot" and my result is:

 

[diplomat33]

Well I did not type that link directly into the address bar, I just searched google for 2 words "Tesla autopilot" and my result is:
View attachment 568506

Yes, that is because the page is still ranked on Google. But it is not the current "live" autopilot page. It is the older page that Tesla is not using anymore. They just never bothered to remove it from Google search.

 

[mikes_fsd]

Whatever floats your boat man, I personally don't have time to click through a website and 99% of my traffic originates from a google search.
I wonder how many people search for Tesla Autopilot immediately go to the Autopilot landing page.

For legal purposes, they are still hosting this information and it easily accessible by everyone who knows how to type a query string into a search engine.

 

[diplomat33]

Whatever floats your boat man, I personally don't have time to click through a website and 99% of my traffic originates from a google search.
I wonder how many people search for Tesla Autopilot immediately go to the Autopilot landing page.

For legal purposes, they are still hosting this information and it easily accessible by everyone who knows how to type a query string into a search engine.

Dude. I don't care. I am just pointing out that you misrepresented the screenshot. You said that it was the 2020 FSD verbiage. It is not. It is the verbiage from the 2016 Autopilot page. The fact that people can still go to it if they do a google search does not change anything.

That's why the verbiage is the same. Both screenshots are from 2016. One screenshot is the 2016 FSD order page when ordering a new car. The other screenshot is the 2016 Autopilot marketing page.

 

[diplomat33]

@mspisars Notice anything about the date under the website? It says Oct 19, 2016. It is the 2016 Autopilot page not the 2020 verbiage as you claimed.

 

[mikes_fsd]

Except the Wayback Machine shows it was updated to the new verbiage only in March of 2019 --- Autopilot

http://web.archive.org/web/20190306042234/https://www.tesla.com/autopilot

Why would Tesla update a page that was supposedly not longer active...

 

[mikes_fsd]

You said that it was the 2020 FSD verbiage. It is not.

Except that it is 2020 verbiage. It is just inconvenient for you so you will try to nit-pick until you are blue in the face.
You can get to the page, the page claims to have a Tesla 2020 copyright.
If you want a page "off-line" you take down the page from being accessible.
Every search engine i've tried takes me to the same landing page.

 

[diplomat33]

Except the Wayback Machine shows it was updated to the new verbiage only in March of 2019 --- Autopilot

http://web.archive.org/web/20190306042234/https://www.tesla.com/autopilot

Why would Tesla update a page that was supposedly not longer active...

If you use wayback, you will see that the FSD verbiage is the same from the 2016 page.

 

[mikes_fsd]

@mspisars Notice anything about the date under the website? It says Oct 19, 2016. It is the 2016 Autopilot page not the 2020 verbiage as you claimed.

Why Does a Date Show Up Under My Google Search Result? – The JesSEO.

The date under the search result is likely the date that Google first crawled the website or the date on that particular blog post, article or resource.

 

[diplomat33]

Except that it is 2020 verbiage. It is just inconvenient for you so you will try to nit-pick until you are blue in the face.
You can get to the page, the page claims to have a Tesla 2020 copyright.
If you want a page "off-line" you take down the page from being accessible.
Every search engine i've tried takes me to the same landing page.

How can it still be the official 2020 verbiage when the Tesla.com website does not link to it and instead links to a new FSD page?

You are using the fact that search engines are still ranking a 2016 page because Tesla has not taken it down yet as proof somehow that the page is still the official 2020 FSD page even though Tesla does not use the page anymore on their 2020 marketing.

Search engines like Google will still link to old pages if they are still being hosted.

Why Does a Date Show Up Under My Google Search Result? – The JesSEO.

Yes, so Google first crawled the website in Oct 19, 2016. So that means the website was created on Oct 19, 2016.

 

[mikes_fsd]

So that means the website was created on Oct 19, 2016.

How does that change the fact that the site was updated in March 2019 with the new wording.

You are using the fact that search engines are still ranking a 2016 page because Tesla has not taken it down

No, but keep trying.

Tesla chooses to still publish that page.
You want to take down a page, you remove it from being published in your CMS. It ain't rocket science.

 

[diplomat33]

How does that change the fact that the site was updated in March 2019 with the new wording.

No, it was not updated with the new FSD wording. Check wayback, the "updated" 2019 page still has the same 2016 FSD verbiage.

Give it up. You linked to the 2016 Autopilot page and claimed that it was the 2020 FSD verbiage. It's not. Go to the 2020 Tesla.com website and you won't find that page anywhere. You are grasping at straws.

 

[Redbrick]

Review of Full Self Driving Feature of my New Tesla Model 3

by Henry Farkas


I actually didn't need to buy a car during the COVID-19 pandemic. My wife and I are in our 70s. Where could we go? But Elon Musk took a couple of thousand dollars off the price of the M3. I figured he'd raise the price once there was a cure or a vaccine. I had already test driven all the fully electric cars before the pandemic started, and Tesla's Full Self Driving (FSD) was better than the lane-keeping of the other electric cars. And Tesla gives free software updates. None of the other car companies do that.


I've had the Tesla for around eight weeks now. During this time, I've received three software updates. My previous car, a Chevy Volt that my wife and I leased and then bought at the end of the lease, got one software update at the beginning of the lease when I complained to the dealer that cruise control often stopped working apropos of nothing while I was driving on the Interstate highway in good weather. I had to take the car into the service center for the update, and I had to wait around an hour or so. The update didn't solve the problem, but it reduced the frequency of the issue.


Anyway, back to Tesla. I paid the extra seven thousand dollars for the FSD feature because my wife doesn't think I'm a good driver. So I figured I'd go with the artificial intelligence of the Tesla that's had several billion miles of driving experience. That's more miles than I've had even though I'm very very old.


Sadly, artificial intelligence doesn't benefit from driving experience quite as well as biological intelligence, at least human biological intelligence.


My criterion for excellent driving is driving that doesn't prompt my wife to comment negatively about a particular driving event during a car trip. I, personally, haven't achieved that rarified level of driving excellence except on very short trips to the grocery store or to nearby restaurants to pick up takeout food. In my defense, her driving would, at times, elicit comments from me if it weren't for the fact that such comments from me might have a negative effect on my ability to get lucky.


But I have to say that so far, both of us are way better drivers than the Tesla is.


I hope the Tesla aficionados can restrain themselves from flaming me over the previous statement. I want the Tesla to be as good a driver as a person who makes a living as a chauffeur for rich people, who never gets sleepy, and whose attention never wanders.


Tesla's AI just isn't there yet. My Tesla sees a red light or a stop sign ahead, it flashes a sign on the screen saying that it plans to stop in 500 feet, and it abruptly accelerates. It does stop in time, but why does it need to accelerate noticeably before it starts to slow down? This happens often. When there's time, an excellent chauffeur accelerates and decelerates so gently that passengers don't even notice that the speed of the vehicle is changing.

.

Possibly, not all people want such a sedate driving experience. If that's all it is, then the Tesla engineers can just put in a driving mode. They could call it Sedate Mode, or Chauffeur Mode, or just Make Your Spouse Happy Mode.


There are more issues with FSD than just abrupt changes in speed. When the Tesla is in the right lane on a limited-access highway and it's passing an exit, the painted lines start to widen. The right thing to do if you don't plan to take the exit is to keep going straight. That's not what Tesla AI does. Instead, it starts to veer right in order to stay centered between the lines. It does this with an abrupt noticeable movement. Then, when the line appears between the exit and the travel lane, Tesla AI abruptly switches back to the center of the travel lane. The car should see far enough ahead to know that the lines are widening because there's an exit. It should know that unless there's a turn signal, the exit is not intended to be taken, and it shouldn't veer right to stay centered between the widening lines. Those movements don't merely upset the non-driving people in the car. They make the driver of the following car think, briefly, that the Tesla is about to exit without signaling. If the following driver speeds up figuring that the Tesla is about to exit, there could be an accident when the Tesla abruptly swerves back into the travel lane.


Staying in the center of the travel lane seems to be a priority for the Tesla AI, but recently, it swerved my car toward the Jersey wall (those concrete walls they sometimes put on the side of roads) on the right side of the road. About a year ago, there was a fatality when a Tesla swerved into a Jersey wall. Apparently, the AI that drives a Tesla still doesn't always recognize that Jersey walls are vertical walls rather than horizontal parts of the travel lane.


Finally, there's the really big issue that sometimes the Tesla doesn't see an object stopped in the road. We know what the car sees and what it doesn't see. They show up on the left side of the center screen as we're driving along. I've had the car less than two months, and this has happened to me twice that I've noticed.


In summary, I like the FSD feature, but it's still not a good enough driver to make my wife happy, and it's not safe for the human drivers to take their attention off the road for even a few seconds. Judging by the way my FSD feature works, it's going to be a long time before I can send my Tesla out to work as a taxi when I won't be needing it myself.



Henry[/

Review of Full Self Driving Feature of my New Tesla Model 3

by Henry Farkas


I actually didn't need to buy a car during the COVID-19 pandemic. My wife and I are in our 70s. Where could we go? But Elon Musk took a couple of thousand dollars off the price of the M3. I figured he'd raise the price once there was a cure or a vaccine. I had already test driven all the fully electric cars before the pandemic started, and Tesla's Full Self Driving (FSD) was better than the lane-keeping of the other electric cars. And Tesla gives free software updates. None of the other car companies do that.


I've had the Tesla for around eight weeks now. During this time, I've received three software updates. My previous car, a Chevy Volt that my wife and I leased and then bought at the end of the lease, got one software update at the beginning of the lease when I complained to the dealer that cruise control often stopped working apropos of nothing while I was driving on the Interstate highway in good weather. I had to take the car into the service center for the update, and I had to wait around an hour or so. The update didn't solve the problem, but it reduced the frequency of the issue.


Anyway, back to Tesla. I paid the extra seven thousand dollars for the FSD feature because my wife doesn't think I'm a good driver. So I figured I'd go with the artificial intelligence of the Tesla that's had several billion miles of driving experience. That's more miles than I've had even though I'm very very old.


Sadly, artificial intelligence doesn't benefit from driving experience quite as well as biological intelligence, at least human biological intelligence.


My criterion for excellent driving is driving that doesn't prompt my wife to comment negatively about a particular driving event during a car trip. I, personally, haven't achieved that rarified level of driving excellence except on very short trips to the grocery store or to nearby restaurants to pick up takeout food. In my defense, her driving would, at times, elicit comments from me if it weren't for the fact that such comments from me might have a negative effect on my ability to get lucky.


But I have to say that so far, both of us are way better drivers than the Tesla is.


I hope the Tesla aficionados can restrain themselves from flaming me over the previous statement. I want the Tesla to be as good a driver as a person who makes a living as a chauffeur for rich people, who never gets sleepy, and whose attention never wanders.


Tesla's AI just isn't there yet. My Tesla sees a red light or a stop sign ahead, it flashes a sign on the screen saying that it plans to stop in 500 feet, and it abruptly accelerates. It does stop in time, but why does it need to accelerate noticeably before it starts to slow down? This happens often. When there's time, an excellent chauffeur accelerates and decelerates so gently that passengers don't even notice that the speed of the vehicle is changing.

.

Possibly, not all people want such a sedate driving experience. If that's all it is, then the Tesla engineers can just put in a driving mode. They could call it Sedate Mode, or Chauffeur Mode, or just Make Your Spouse Happy Mode.


There are more issues with FSD than just abrupt changes in speed. When the Tesla is in the right lane on a limited-access highway and it's passing an exit, the painted lines start to widen. The right thing to do if you don't plan to take the exit is to keep going straight. That's not what Tesla AI does. Instead, it starts to veer right in order to stay centered between the lines. It does this with an abrupt noticeable movement. Then, when the line appears between the exit and the travel lane, Tesla AI abruptly switches back to the center of the travel lane. The car should see far enough ahead to know that the lines are widening because there's an exit. It should know that unless there's a turn signal, the exit is not intended to be taken, and it shouldn't veer right to stay centered between the widening lines. Those movements don't merely upset the non-driving people in the car. They make the driver of the following car think, briefly, that the Tesla is about to exit without signaling. If the following driver speeds up figuring that the Tesla is about to exit, there could be an accident when the Tesla abruptly swerves back into the travel lane.


Staying in the center of the travel lane seems to be a priority for the Tesla AI, but recently, it swerved my car toward the Jersey wall (those concrete walls they sometimes put on the side of roads) on the right side of the road. About a year ago, there was a fatality when a Tesla swerved into a Jersey wall. Apparently, the AI that drives a Tesla still doesn't always recognize that Jersey walls are vertical walls rather than horizontal parts of the travel lane.


Finally, there's the really big issue that sometimes the Tesla doesn't see an object stopped in the road. We know what the car sees and what it doesn't see. They show up on the left side of the center screen as we're driving along. I've had the car less than two months, and this has happened to me twice that I've noticed.


In summary, I like the FSD feature, but it's still not a good enough driver to make my wife happy, and it's not safe for the human drivers to take their attention off the road for even a few seconds. Judging by the way my FSD feature works, it's going to be a long time before I can send my Tesla out to work as a taxi when I won't be needing it myself.



Henry

....Dayum....I'm not anywhere near 70, but forget the tesla, I hope I can still get lucky at 70

 

[mikes_fsd]

FFS, i have to do everything for you...

2019
http://web.archive.org/web/20190306042234/https://www.tesla.com/autopilot

vs
2016

http://web.archive.org/web/20161020062540/https://www.tesla.com/autopilot

And now, the side-by-side....