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Elon Musk tweets software upgrade will increase P85D range

SBR

Member
Sep 22, 2014
43
3
Austin, TX
Software update to achieve max efficiency (going to full idle on 2nd motor) is not out yet. Range of P85D should then closely match P85+.

85D has higher range than 85 when using the same tires. Sport tires have better handling, but 3% to 5% range impact. Tradeoff is worth it :)


First:

Elon Musk on Twitter:

and second:

Elon Musk on Twitter:

How can they release EPA numbers and sell these cars without this software... This seems ridiculous that it was not clearly communicated
 
How can they release EPA numbers and sell these cars without this software... This seems ridiculous that it was not clearly communicated
As long as the software is out soon it shouldn't really matter.

Tesla thinks of itself more as a Technology company than a Car company. It's completely normal for tech companies to ship out products with known buggy software when they plan to push out an update very shortly after release ... This allows product to hit the street fast, and developers a little bit of extra time to get things right. This happens with Apple iPhones, too.

Truth is, if this is the biggest problem, having reduced range for a couple of weeks is not the end of the world -- as long as Tesla pushes the update quickly.
 

breser

AutoPilot Nostradamus
Aug 28, 2014
2,314
94
North Bend, WA
How can they release EPA numbers and sell these cars without this software... This seems ridiculous that it was not clearly communicated

Because the software is not part of the vehicle configuration. The vehicle configuration that the EPA requires retesting for includes things like the motor, transmission, weight of the car, etc... None of the factors for the vehicle configuration have been updated to deal with battery electric vehicles. None of them talk about software at all, which isn't surprising since as far as I can tell Tesla is the only automaker that can update the software over-the-air that impacts driving functionality. So not only has the rules on mileage not caught up with Electric Vehicles completely, it certainly hasn't caught up with the software industry providing constant updates.

Another point that I'll make here is that Tesla does not have to even use a production vehicle as the test article. The test procedures allow them to use a prototype vehicle. As long as the prototype vehicle matches the production vehicle configuration that's fine. So I see no reason they can't use prototype software.
 
Because the software is not part of the vehicle configuration. The vehicle configuration that the EPA requires retesting for includes things like the motor, transmission, weight of the car, etc... None of the factors for the vehicle configuration have been updated to deal with battery electric vehicles. None of them talk about software at all, which isn't surprising since as far as I can tell Tesla is the only automaker that can update the software over-the-air that impacts driving functionality. So not only has the rules on mileage not caught up with Electric Vehicles completely, it certainly hasn't caught up with the software industry providing constant updates.

Another point that I'll make here is that Tesla does not have to even use a production vehicle as the test article. The test procedures allow them to use a prototype vehicle. As long as the prototype vehicle matches the production vehicle configuration that's fine. So I see no reason they can't use prototype software.

...that still doesnt change the fact that tesla is selling an unfinished product (software wise).

imagine if another car company pulled this, many of you would rightly jeer that move...
 

RyanT

Member
Sep 9, 2014
389
161
Portland
Does this then mean that the same sw upgrade would 'increase' the range of an 85D over a standard 85?

Yes, I'm sure. They mentioned the increased efficiency twice with the latest being in the last tweet. They've have to have been testing them with only motor actively driving the cars. It sounds like when it's just running one motor it's more efficient. On the order page it says it uses 2 smaller motors. It sounds like the software to manage the transitions between 2 to 4 wheel modes needs to be finished.

I'm interested to see the numbers for the s85d. It sounds like the p85d's sport and insane modes are using both motors all the time. When they give them the normal mode that's probably going to be more similar to the s85d's drive mode.
 
Last edited:

Firewired

Member
May 23, 2013
709
380
San Antonio
...that still doesnt change the fact that tesla is selling an unfinished product (software wise).

imagine if another car company pulled this, many of you would rightly jeer that move...
Isn't that one of the beauties of owning a Tesla. It is always unfinished. It is always being improved. No other car company does that. Took delivery yesterday. Loving the car. Will happily wait for potential mileage improvements, happy to wait until the seats are near perfect.
 

SBR

Member
Sep 22, 2014
43
3
Austin, TX
When I picked up my car the EPA on the sticker was advertised to be the same as the p85. Data clearly shows it isn't.

i personally don't cRe what car they used to get the EPA numbers but it's clear the EPA numbers don't match what is really happening.

This is fraud :). It is also means I likely won't be able to make the 200 mile trip to Houston next week until the software release is made. No body should be putting up with this bull after paying so much for the car. They should be honest and forthcoming and not leave it to customers to guess. Their communication is extremely poor. This is no longer a start up company, or a small company. These sort of things are inexcusable...
 
When I picked up my car the EPA on the sticker was advertised to be the same as the p85. Data clearly shows it isn't.

i personally don't cRe what car they used to get the EPA numbers but it's clear the EPA numbers don't match what is really happening.

This is fraud :). It is also means I likely won't be able to make the 200 mile trip to Houston next week until the software release is made. No body should be putting up with this bull after paying so much for the car. They should be honest and forthcoming and not leave it to customers to guess. Their communication is extremely poor. This is no longer a start up company, or a small company. These sort of things are inexcusable...

The smiley face is golden.

In any event, I agree that the communication is terrible and inexcusable, but as an computer engineer, I do think the concept of releasing hardware without finished software is completely normal elsewhere in the tech world, but it's obviously new to the car world. Tesla should have set expectations accordingly.
 

scaesare

Well-Known Member
Mar 14, 2013
8,591
15,199
NoVA
...that still doesnt change the fact that tesla is selling an unfinished product (software wise).

imagine if another car company pulled this, many of you would rightly jeer that move...

Here's the mindset that I suggest folks need to get in with regard to a company like Tesla: They are releasing what they can, when they can. They do not artificially hold back features (software or hardware), for some specific model or milestone.

What makes this difficult for some people is that they are much more open and communicative than other car companies about what they are doing, or plan to do. You are, in effect, "seeing in to" their development timeline. Other companies face the very same issues, you just are in the dark and never hear about them while you wait longer.

Thus there's the tendency to set your own expectation, which may not match what they are able to accomplish.

Example: I takes 2 months each to complete the development, test, and implementation each of the three modes, and they only have the resources to do it serially.. The hardware becomes ready in month four of the development cycle. You have two choices:

1) Release the car with 2 of the three modes enabled, and update with the final mode 2 months later.

2) Hold the car back for 2 months until the final mode can be added.

In either case, you aren't going to get the final mode any sooner. But with option number one, you DO get your car and all the other completed goodies sooner.

You can have option #2 if you want: just hold off on buying your car... I'll take option number #1 :)
 

sandpiper

Active Member
Sep 25, 2014
2,833
2,322
Ontario, Canada
1) Release the car with 2 of the three modes enabled, and update with the final mode 2 months later.

2) Hold the car back for 2 months until the final mode can be added.

Sure... but FFS, they should let us know what they're doing... in advance. I came close to cancelling my order because the range really matters quite a lot to me. A reduction of 15% from the P85 range was just not going to cut it. A simple post on their blog, a note to the DSs to pass along, or an individual email to all of the buyers would all have worked fine.

It's like the left hand didn't know what the right was doing. The engineering crews probably withheld the "normal mode" for very good reason, assuming that it was up to marketing to tell the customers. But the marketing group didn't even seem to know that it had happened. And maybe that is exactly how it came to pass. I can imagine EM's puzzled reaction after hearing about all of the gnashing on the internet from the first P85D recipients. And once he found out that "normal" was disabled but nobody mentioned it to the customer, I suspect that he went rather "Steve Jobs" on a few folks.

If you ever read some of the "employee reviews" on the web from Tesla employees, it's clearly a chaotic company at the moment.
 

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