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Elon Musk tweets software upgrade will increase P85D range

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Sure... but FFS, they should let us know what they're doing... in advance. I came close to cancelling my order because the range really matters quite a lot to me. A reduction of 15% from the P85 range was just not going to cut it. A simple post on their blog, a note to the DSs to pass along, or an individual email to all of the buyers would all have worked fine.

It's like the left hand didn't know what the right was doing. The engineering crews probably withheld the "normal mode" for very good reason, assuming that it was up to marketing to tell the customers. But the marketing group didn't even seem to know that it had happened. And maybe that is exactly how it came to pass. I can imagine EM's puzzled reaction after hearing about all of the gnashing on the internet from the first P85D recipients. And once he found out that "normal" was disabled but nobody mentioned it to the customer, I suspect that he went rather "Steve Jobs" on a few folks.

If you ever read some of the "employee reviews" on the web from Tesla employees, it's clearly a chaotic company at the moment.

More communication & expectation never hurts.

But this is the point I had qouted and was responding to: "...that still doesnt change the fact that tesla is selling an unfinished product (software wise)."

My premise is that one needs to get in the mindset of iterative releases of functionality.
 
the range really matters quite a lot to me.

If range is your primary concern you should have ordered a S85D instead of a P85D.

If you are going to tool around in the fastest production sedan on the planet don't complain about a couple of miles range lost.

You could save more than the few miles difference just pulling your foot up off that long skinny pedal on the right. :wink:
 
Sure... but FFS, they should let us know what they're doing... in advance. I came close to cancelling my order because the range really matters quite a lot to me. A reduction of 15% from the P85 range was just not going to cut it. A simple post on their blog, a note to the DSs to pass along, or an individual email to all of the buyers would all have worked fine.

It's like the left hand didn't know what the right was doing. The engineering crews probably withheld the "normal mode" for very good reason, assuming that it was up to marketing to tell the customers. But the marketing group didn't even seem to know that it had happened. And maybe that is exactly how it came to pass. I can imagine EM's puzzled reaction after hearing about all of the gnashing on the internet from the first P85D recipients. And once he found out that "normal" was disabled but nobody mentioned it to the customer, I suspect that he went rather "Steve Jobs" on a few folks.

If you ever read some of the "employee reviews" on the web from Tesla employees, it's clearly a chaotic company at the moment.

It is an engineering-driven company, with an engineer as CEO. In these companies, marketing always plays second fiddle. They know that if it comes down to a decision between engineering and marketing, engineering will win 90+% of the time.

Every company growing as fast as Tesla is chaotic inside. The average employee has probably been in their current job less than 6 months. But as one CEO I worked for said after the growth slowed and the company was dealing with reining in costs, "I've known high growth and low growth, and high growth is better."
 
If range is your primary concern you should have ordered a S85D instead of a P85D.

If you are going to tool around in the fastest production sedan on the planet don't complain about a couple of miles range lost.

You could save more than the few miles difference just pulling your foot up off that long skinny pedal on the right. :wink:

I thought about that! But the S85D (supposedly) was only marginally better and so I succumbed to call of the 'P'. :biggrin: I'm quite happy as long as it does as well as the old P85.
 
...that still doesnt change the fact that tesla is selling an unfinished product (software wise).

imagine if another car company pulled this, many of you would rightly jeer that move...

Check out this 6 mo review on the i3 to see a car not ready for release. You can't even fast charge it yet!
And what about all the Honda Fits that had to be recalled TWICE due to spontaneous fires and as Honda did not have the parts to repair them, suggested you don't park them in your garage so when they caught on fire it wouldn't burn down your house!!
 
If range is your primary concern you should have ordered a S85D instead of a P85D.

If you are going to tool around in the fastest production sedan on the planet don't complain about a couple of miles range lost.

You could save more than the few miles difference just pulling your foot up off that long skinny pedal on the right. :wink:

Wrong answer. Tesla marketed the P85D to have better range than the P85+. Every other excuse in their favor (well there are two motors, it does 0-60 in 3.2 secs, etc etc) isn't relevant here. Of course we are smart enough to be skeptical of a faster, heavier car with an extra motor being less efficient, but when Elon Musk stands up on stage and basically says they've accomplished a rare feat, opens the site up for people to plunk down their hard earned money, forgive us for believing him.
 
Check out this 6 mo review on the i3 to see a car not ready for release. You can't even fast charge it yet!
And what about all the Honda Fits that had to be recalled TWICE due to spontaneous fires and as Honda did not have the parts to repair them, suggested you don't park them in your garage so when they caught on fire it wouldn't burn down your house!!

No one had it worse than the early owners of the RAV4 EV (current generation). ;)
 
Wrong answer. Tesla marketed the P85D to have better range than the P85+. Every other excuse in their favor (well there are two motors, it does 0-60 in 3.2 secs, etc etc) isn't relevant here. Of course we are smart enough to be skeptical of a faster, heavier car with an extra motor being less efficient, but when Elon Musk stands up on stage and basically says they've accomplished a rare feat, opens the site up for people to plunk down their hard earned money, forgive us for believing him.

First, if they marketed the P85D as better range than the P85+ you clearly have a valid point. Though I've not seen that from Tesla, I definitely could have missed something.

Even if they never made any explicit P85D to P85+ comments, I think you have a valid point to an extent (and, like yourself, I think telling someone "well, you should have ordered the 85D" is missing the point)... watching the video of Musk on the stage on 10/9 he said that the dual motor achieved better efficiency than the rear motor Model S. Given that the RWD Model S has 380 HP and the coming 85D has 376 HP but Tesla still says better range, essentially holding power constant, dual motor seems to be more efficient than RWD in the Model S. When you go from P85 to P85D you are changing more than rear wheel drive to dual motor, you are also very substantially changing performance. I don't remember what the HP of the P85 was, but I'm pretty sure the P85D has over 200 more horsepower. Executing this second objective clearly involved more changes than rear motor to dual motor... so with multiple substantial variables changed, apparently the net impact to efficiency and range is a wash for the P85D compared to the P85+.

That said, I think what was said at the "D" event left room for misleading implications, even if the statement was technically correct, and I think Tesla could have done better than that (which is why I'm with you re not telling the guy who ordered the P85D "you should have ordered an 85D). So I agree your point is valid to an extent. In my view, it would have been better to say right from first night something like... the 85D will have the best range and efficiency of any Tesla, and the P85D a big leap forward in performance (matching McClaren...), and what would have been lost efficiency for all that power is made up for by the added efficiency of the dual motor format. Like the rest of us Tesla always has room for improvement, and you've found one such area.

Tesla Unveils Dual Motor and Autopilot - YouTube
 
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First, if they marketed the P85D as better range than the P85+ you clearly have a valid point. Though I've not seen that from Tesla, I definitely could have missed something.

Even if they never made any explicit P85D to P85+ comments, I think you have a valid point to an extent (and, like yourself, I think telling someone "well, you should have ordered the 85D" is missing the point)... watching the video of Musk on the stage on 10/9 he said that the dual motor achieved better efficiency than the rear motor Model S. Given that the RWD Model S has 380 HP and the coming 85D has 376 HP but Tesla still says better range, essentially holding power constant, dual motor seems to be more efficient than RWD in the Model S. When you go from P85 to P85D you are changing more than rear wheel drive to dual motor, you are also very substantially changing performance. I don't remember what the HP of the P85 was, but I'm pretty sure the P85D has over 200 more horsepower. Executing this second objective clearly involved more changes than rear motor to dual motor... so with multiple substantial variables changed, apparently the net impact to efficiency and range is a wash for the P85D compared to the P85+.

That said, I think what was said at the "D" event left room for misleading implications, even if the statement was technically correct, and I think Tesla could have done better than that (which is why I'm with you re not telling the guy who ordered the P85D "you should have ordered an 85D). So I agree your point is valid to an extent. In my view, it would have been better to say right from first night something like... the 85D will have the best range and efficiency of any Tesla, and the P85D a big leap forward in performance (matching McClaren...), and what would have been lost efficiency for all that power is made up for by the added efficiency of the dual motor format. Like the rest of us Tesla always has room for improvement, and you've found one such area.

Tesla Unveils Dual Motor and Autopilot - YouTube

Agreed. Well said.
 
AWDtsla,

fwiw, I've been repeatedly saying the past few weeks (including in that last comment) that there's every reason to believe Tesla has improved efficiency, and that the 85D will be the most efficient Model S (I've even suggested in the past couple of days that the EPA numbers might not be final pending the improvement Elon referred to in his tweet yesterday).

At the same time, I think what Tesla presented on stage in early October left room for misleading implications. As I wrote, Tesla can always improve as is the case for all of us (myself included). Pointing this out does not equal a lack of appreciation of Tesla, Musk, etc (or being undeserving of their products, as move on to BMW comment suggests). As it happens, when asked about success, consistently, Elon Musk mentions two things... one is honest feedback from people who have your well-being in mind. There have been at least three occasions since 2012 where Tesla basically got something wrong publicly AND fixed it, precisely because they are open to honest feedback.
 
AWDtsla,

fwiw, I've been repeatedly saying the past few weeks (including in that last comment) that there's every reason to believe Tesla has improved efficiency, and that the 85D will be the most efficient Model S (I've even suggested in the past couple of days that the EPA numbers might not be final pending the improvement Elon referred to in his tweet yesterday).

At the same time, I think what Tesla presented on stage in early October left room for misleading implications. As I wrote, Tesla can always improve as is the case for all of us (myself included). Pointing this out does not equal a lack of appreciation of Tesla, Musk, etc (or being undeserving of their products, as move on to BMW comment suggests). As it happens, when asked about success, consistently, Elon Musk mentions two things... one is honest feedback from people who have your well-being in mind. There have been at least three occasions since 2012 where Tesla basically got something wrong publicly AND fixed it, precisely because they are open to honest feedback.

“A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines. With consistency a great soul has simply nothing to do. He may as well concern himself with his shadow on the wall. Speak what you think now in hard words, and to-morrow speak what to-morrow thinks in hard words again, though it contradict every thing you said to-day. — 'Ah, so you shall be sure to be misunderstood.' — Is it so bad, then, to be misunderstood? Pythagoras was misunderstood, and Socrates, and Jesus, and Luther, and Copernicus, and Galileo, and Newton, and every pure and wise spirit that ever took flesh. To be great is to be misunderstood.”
Ralph Waldo Emerson, Self-Reliance
 
“A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines. With consistency a great soul has simply nothing to do. He may as well concern himself with his shadow on the wall. Speak what you think now in hard words, and to-morrow speak what to-morrow thinks in hard words again, though it contradict every thing you said to-day. — 'Ah, so you shall be sure to be misunderstood.' — Is it so bad, then, to be misunderstood? Pythagoras was misunderstood, and Socrates, and Jesus, and Luther, and Copernicus, and Galileo, and Newton, and every pure and wise spirit that ever took flesh. To be great is to be misunderstood.”
Ralph Waldo Emerson, Self-Reliance

two people, two views, no worries
 
But it will be fixed. If it was another car company it will always be broken. That's how software works.
While Tesla's software is much better than MS, it still isn't going to magically fix hardware limitations. Anyone that thinks otherwise is only kidding themselves. Remember the vampire drain? Yep, my car still loses 7 miles overnight when it's cold. The software just reports it differently.