dennis
Model S Plaid
Thank you for the link. It looks like they have shown 275 and 285 miles as the 65 mph range for the P85D at various times.
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Agree with all of this. So, has anyone contacted ownership or Jerome and are you getting any answers? I plan to ask them, simply -- "please explain how it is that a) the P85D can achieve 285 miles on a single charge and b) why is it not the case that the P85D is more efficient than the P85, as you and your sales team touted?"
I wouldn't email that to Jerome. Don't be accusatory and don't put him on defense. That doesn't seem very professional, just my opinion.
20 hardware changes each week... Continuous improvement.
So same thing. Just change a couple words in the sentence: Oh, you mean selling a car with a 'promised' working ignition switch?
I'm confused. Everyone from Elon down to the multiple sales people I have been talking about 285 miles per charge, being more efficient than the P85, up until recently. On that basis, *many* owners took the incremental $40K hit to upgrade from a P85+.
And you think it's unprofessional to ask them why the discrepancy and lack of communication after thousands of orders and and many confused owners?
Please help me understand what I'm missing.
OTOH, the Monroney sticker on the P85D says MPGe of 94 highway compared to 90 MPGe for the S85. That means Tesla did an EPA test using the same hardware that P85D owners have and some version of the software that achieves better highway MPGe. This is not a marketing number like the above ones but a test conducted under rigid rules, with the results submitted to the government.
I wouldn't email that to Jerome. Don't be accusatory and don't put him on defense. That doesn't seem very professional or courteous, just my opinion.
I'm confused. Everyone from Elon down to the multiple sales people I have been talking about 285 miles per charge, being more efficient than the P85, up until recently. On that basis, *many* owners took the incremental $40K hit to upgrade from a P85+.
And you think it's unprofessional to ask them why the discrepancy and lack of communication after thousands of orders and and many confused owners?
Please help me understand what I'm missing.
Elon said "approach", not match. You are setting the bar too high. P85+ had an EPA range of 265 miles.
I'm simple and it seems rather obvious to me. I know what 40K miles of average W-Hr/mile looks like on my cars. I could easily drive the PD for two days and know exactly where I stand - city and highway. If I can do it, Tesla can.
We all know how special the PD is so there is no need to over hype it. In fact, there is every reason in the world to under hype it. Given that the car is revolutionary on performance alone Tesla only exposes itself to negative sentiment and press if it does not do exactly what they say it will do on day one with respect to range. Given what was advertised, I expect my PD to do slightly worse than my P+ in the city and slightly better on the highway. If this is not the case (highway), there really is no excuse given Tesla knew before they shipped. Not saying so opens the company up to a whole bunch of criticism significantly negating the positives of the PD and all the press that came with the car.
As @breser has pointed out, P85 (and P85+) numbers have never been submitted to the EPA. Since they make up less than 1/3 of the cars delivered, their Monroney stickers carry the numbers from the test conducted for the S85.
You speak only for yourself, not "many confused owners" and "thousands of orders". You only represent yourself, you do not represent the Tesla community. The "many" owners who took a $40k hit to buy the P85D presumably did so for the performance, not because the P85D offered greater range than the P85/+. I have yet to see a single person state that they purchased the P85D because of its greater range. If you did, ok then, just speak for yourself.
You attract more bees with honey than with vinegar. If you are looking for an answer to a question, I find that it's not usually a good approach to fly into the room with guns blazing and with the presumption that Tesla did something wrong. Just ask your question. Elon never said the P85D specifically would be more efficient or even as efficient as a P85. I don't know where you got that from. Elon said that dual drive is inherently more efficient and will result in comparable range when the motors are optimized, which is apparently what they are in the process of doing now via software. That's the take-away that I remember getting from his statements at the D launch.
I just don't think striking a negative tone is appropriate. That's all. I have had many great communications with Jerome. He is a friend and ally of the ownership community, not an enemy. He steps in to help when there are problems and always makes things right. You reap what you sow.
I know it is a nit, but I don't remember Tesla saying the P85D would have more range. IIRC the numbers on the website (at a constant 65 mph) were:
S85D 295
S85 285
P85D 275
You're saying that expecting to get what you thought you were paying for is a sign of imperfection? Sounds like a sign of rationalism to me.
as shown in my link a few posts ago P85D was indeed listed as 285 after a few weeks up from the initial 275.You somehow gave the S85 20 extra miles range. The old numbers were
S60 208 miles range 5.9 sec 0-60 120 mph
S85 265 miles range 5.4 sec 0-60 125 mph
S85D 295 miles range 5.2 sec 0-60 155 mph
P85D 275 miles range 3.2 sec 0-60 155 mph
Would highly recommend you spend some time in this thread and others and you will find that MANY owners also expected greater range than their P85, based on what was marketed by Tesla at the time. I agree that performance is likely the primary consideration for most buyers but at the time but that doesn't give Tesla carte blanche to change something fundamental to the value prop of the P85D without engaging in a conversation with owners. Again, spend some time across a few threads in this forum and you'll find owners who are very surprised that range is actually less than their P85. Of course many of these owners still love the car and appreciate the outstanding performance.
I agree that you attract more bees with honey than vinegar. I've helped build/sell two tech companies for over $1.5B combined so I know a thing or two about how to conduct business and influence others But thank you for the tip
And in that context, I don't think there is anything accusatory in my tone. I'm simply asking questions. I've also had many exchanges with Jerome and have found him to be pleasant and very responsive. But that doesn't mean I won't hold him and Tesla accountable when I'm committing to $250K of Tesla product in a period of 12 months. Tesla reaps the rewards from many owners who made a very fast decision to place an order the night of the announcement because they love the product and brand so much, so I think it's fair they bear responsibility when things go different than expected.
As Lola/Bill was hinting at, what really matters is the effective range for a given real world driving pattern. Not sure I recall any P85/P85+ folks reporting less than about 320 Wh/mile over on the "Lifetime Average Wh/mi" thread over several thousand miles of mixed driving. That converted to range based on a roughly 80 kWh usable capacity on a full charge would amount to no more than 250 miles of range. Now, we didn't drive our PD much before going on vacation, but, are folks doing far worse than 320 Wh/mile with their PDs?!
Okay. I was just making a suggestion. You clearly feel wronged and that's your right. You've built and sold two tech companies worth over $1.5B, congratulations on that. Taking a $40k loss on the purchase of a P85D would surely represent nothing more than a rounding error in your checking account. I'm trying to focus on the positive.
I think wk057 and others are seeing numbers around 380. So a significant decrease in range.As Lola/Bill was hinting at, what really matters is the effective range for a given real world driving pattern. Not sure I recall any P85/P85+ folks reporting less than about 320 Wh/mile over on the "Lifetime Average Wh/mi" thread over several thousand miles of mixed driving. That converted to range based on a roughly 80 kWh usable capacity on a full charge would amount to no more than 250 miles of range. Now, we didn't drive our PD much before going on vacation, but, are folks doing far worse than 320 Wh/mile with their PDs?!