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Elon Musk vs. Short sellers

Discussion in 'TSLA Investor Discussions' started by jesselivenomore, Jun 18, 2018.

  1. jbih

    jbih Member

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    If the shorts make profit off of a short raid like this week, then Elon is actually a blessing for them, because he attracts inexperienced people they can exploit.

    Since Jesses post I'm beginning to understand more of the whole story and I currently believe hat the shorts actually will continuously benefit from their raids, even in the case stock rises 30% per year.

    That would mean to combat this, we must stop believing the FUD and stay long even if the stock drops 15-25%. (Or instead make some profit with selling options?)
     
  2. Electroman

    Electroman Active Member

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    ... and Electrek, the one that has highest readership of all the
     
  3. dondy

    dondy Member

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    SpaceX was until this year under permanent bombardment of FUD. (typical example

    SpaceX's finance projections are galactically optimistic).
    Apparently Heavy Falcon launch without any contract or external financing was just too much to continue with this crap.
    I didn't see any hit articles about SpaceX this year. Yet.
    Just like it is with Tesla, they used "corrected" numbers. assumptions and just plain lies.
    for example in this typical hit article they use all kind of estimations where they for whatever reason ignored how NASA programs work, how satellite contract launches are paid and organized, as well the reasons of the delays. In fact this piece has just exemplified complete ignorance about space industry.

    Small remark: it's pretty much useless to analyze financial state of any space company looking on done launches. You check company health by looking at ongoing contracts. Even in 2015 SpaceX was fine.
     
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  4. jbih

    jbih Member

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    Hm. Who would target SpaceX? Would be interesting to check the larger stock holders of incumbents... Maybe also Russia, since their launch business is affected and they have a track record of media manipulation.
     
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  5. S'toon

    S'toon Knows where his towel is

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    United Launch Alliance - Wikipedia
     
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  6. generalenthu

    generalenthu Member

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    That verge article was just a regurgitation of the crap WSJ published. Surprised charley Grant wasn't a byline on it.
     
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  7. Brando

    Brando Active Member

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    #327 Brando, Jul 7, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2018
    Let me throw in my suspecisions. Canos is smart and got his rep by exposing banking/insurance company frauds - accounting tricks.
    And now all of a sudden he is a manufacturing expert? a car expert? I don't think he even believes that. Now perhaps the Koch brothers would pay him? cover his losses (if any)?

    Koch brothers trying to kill electric cars

    Now I could believe that. Seems more likely to me. Or it is hubris as you suggest? Interesting to see if we ever find out which it is.

    Actually I think this is what is happeing
    Elon Musk vs. Short Sellers - Interview with Professional Trader Jesselivenomore (07.04.18) - TechCast Daily
    Thanks to @SPadival for pointing this out.
     
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  8. Brando

    Brando Active Member

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    #328 Brando, Jul 7, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2018
    A few months back Russia gave it view of "space business" 4% Launch Services 96% for payload [satellites].

    "TASS reports Deputy prime minister Dmitry Rogozin, whose role puts him at the top of the country's defence industry, said in a television interview: “The share of launch vehicles is as small as 4 per cent of the overall market of space services”.

    here is one article to read
    Soyuz later! Russia may exit satellite launch biz

    Why try to compete against the only honest [non-defense contractor] in the world? Just let Musk do it and follow where the real money is.
    ULA chargers $1 billion / year just to keep the doors open and then about $400 million per launch and Must comes in at $63 million and after suing the Air Force and getting Air Force certification Space X charges a "red tape fees" which less than double the usual fee which is still much less than ULA.

    As I remember Russia charge $20 million for each Astronaut and it quickly went up to $80 million each. Anyone verify? Cost NASA near $4 billion and ULA couldn't even do it. Just plain corruption. All too common as our US Empire collapses. Thankfully some immigrants still come here and fight against all the odds. And of course Russia supplies RD-180 rocket motor to ULA otherwise they could NOT launch anything.

    note: the wikipedia article above does give some details at the end - The start of the article seems to ME was written by the Public Relations Dept. of ULA - which all goes to remind me of Mark Twain:
    "If you don't read newspapers you are ill informed.
    If you do read you are miss informed."
    Getting to the truth is seldom easy.
     
    • Informative x 1
  9. Brando

    Brando Active Member

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    Volatility provides most of the profits for the banksters [just look at any chart of trading. varies by the minute, no seconds in the computer age]. Just to point out that Wall Street Bankster love this guy. NO ONE will prosecute. Love to be proven wrong.
     
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  10. SPadival

    SPadival Member

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    #330 SPadival, Jul 9, 2018
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 9, 2018
    • Helpful x 2
  11. dmckinstry

    dmckinstry Model S - U.S. P - #1649

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    Jesse. Thanks for all your hard work and study to provide such an extremely informative article.
     
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  12. BozieBeMe2

    BozieBeMe2 Member

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    Ditto, it helps to see the details and not have to guess so much. (doesn't stop the WTH moments when you begin learning about our fellow human beings)
     
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  13. UnknownSoldier

    UnknownSoldier Unknown Member

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    I don't get why Chanos didn't lose all his credibility when he shorted the whole country of China and was summarily humiliated by that one. Not to mention his failure to destroy Fairfax Financial. How does he even have any credibility to begin with. He got lucky with Enron. He's been wrong about everything else since.
     
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  14. SPadival

    SPadival Member

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    Interesting article on Gordon Johnson, one of Chanos minions in the OP.

    Clearing a Name at Lehman

    I bet Joe got a phone call from Uncle Thanos.
     
    • Informative x 1
  15. Boomer19

    Boomer19 Supporting Member

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  16. Boomer19

    Boomer19 Supporting Member

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  17. woof

    woof Model X 75D Blue. Model 3 LR Red.

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    The Kremlin invested 'hundreds of millions' in Twitter and Facebook through Russian-American tech billionaire Yuri Milner
    Remember the Panama Papers - Wikipedia exposing everyone's money laundering? They expose this example of Kremlin dabbling in the market. So the speculation above that Russia isn't above using it's sovereign wealth to distort the market is right on. And if they want to protect their Gazprom oil and space industries from Musk's business, one way would be to use the market against TSLA.

    It'd be interesting if the Panama Papers have a more direct linkage of Russia to TSLA, but I'm not qualified to do that research. Anyone up to the challenge?
     
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  18. dondy

    dondy Member

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    The article is typical FUD. BI being idiots they are have tried to link money laundering to political games. Really?

    If Moscow would want to use Twitter or Facebook they would do it directly by buying advertisement services offered by both companies using some "genuine" american companies. There are many more options behind usual "text placing". Gosh journalists are stupid....
    The russians don't have to do anything against Tesla, there are enough local enemies.
     
  19. dw4ngg

    dw4ngg Member

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    Thread just got repped by @elonmusk via TWTR
     
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  20. Chuq

    Chuq Active Member

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    Elon just tweeted a link to this thread!
     
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