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Elon Musk vs. Short sellers
- Thread starter jesselivenomore
- Start date
Company uses employees to produce products. You won't believe it!
jelloslug
Active Member
Reality - I know you were born yesterday and honestly cannot understand, how can there be hatred in hiring and assembling a team of people, paying them, installing cameras and other infrastructure for just counting cars? What an harmless activity, like bird watching. Right?
Let me explain that to you since you are so innocent: Here your short buddies are not counting cars, just to understand Tesla better. They are looking and digging deep to come up with some perceived negative angle and blow it up. For instance if they see 700 cars coming out every day and one day it dips to 200, out goes twitter messages and CNBC headlines,
"Could it be a fire in the paint shop?"
"Maybe the Robots broke?"
"Maybe Panasonic stopped making cells? non-payment from Tesla?"
"Tesla ran out of cash?"
"Revolt in the factory?"
The whole thing is like a witch hunt to see how to spread the next FUD. Yesterdays FUD is forgotten and the shorts moves onto another one today. But at the end, the public only sees a barrage of negative headlines - most of them lies - and starts wondering maybe things are pretty bad over there in Fremont.
And that is the whole idea of counting cars - coming up with a slew of negative headlines.
Now, when you pose an innocent looking retort,
"What is wrong with someone seeing how many cars are leaving a tesla factory?"
you think the rest of us here are fools.
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Baseless fear and speculation...which may start on Twitter, and is then immediately repeated on reddit by another accomplice (which in this case has since been deleted).
The secret car counting would stop to minute Tesla started honestly reporting monthly sales, production, and inventory like the squares at the adult-run car companies. Right? The previous excuse that they were low volume and batch ship to China or whatever no longer works. All the skepticism is based on Leon’s history of dishonesty and reporting a different metric every quarter so that no one can get a solid basis for analysis.
People with nothing to hide rarely take shopping for window blinds so seriously...
People with nothing to hide rarely take shopping for window blinds so seriously...
So GM isn't a "adult-run car company" anymore? (Since they stopped reporting monthly sales and now only report quarterly like Tesla.)
Ya, right. So that you can spin your lies based on the monthly variations:
Jan: US - 1000, rest of the world - 5000 --> "Demand in US is now dead"
Feb: US - 5000, rest of the world - 1000 --> "Demand in Europe/China is now dead"
In fact counting cars everyday serves that same purpose for day traders. If Tesla is doing some production line bottleneck trouble-shooting and process improvements, and had to shut down for two days - the shorts will be screaming, "Production stopped, perhaps workers on strike demanding humane treatment?"
Exactly. Tesla and GM would like to prevent timely sales data for EXACTLY the same reason.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Wrong. Nothing would stop the rabid shorts from desperately trying to spin everything negative.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Well that's why they indulge in constant secret car counting. Monthly reporting will not stop that activity.
People short the stock because they expect it to fail, and they like money.
Tesla turning a profit, producing more cars than they forecast, selling more cars than they forecast, or building a 3rd solar roof would make the shorts lose money. Doing those things routinely would make the stock a less popular short target.
Obscuring the data that is normally used for analysis creates the atmosphere you are complaining about. Specifically in this case, all Tesla would have to do to silence the car counting narrative is provide the data, which is standard (GMs recent move not withstanding) in the industry.
The conspiracy theory nonsense comes from both sides. Tesla is being less than forthcoming and deserves the speculation.
Tesla turning a profit, producing more cars than they forecast, selling more cars than they forecast, or building a 3rd solar roof would make the shorts lose money. Doing those things routinely would make the stock a less popular short target.
Obscuring the data that is normally used for analysis creates the atmosphere you are complaining about. Specifically in this case, all Tesla would have to do to silence the car counting narrative is provide the data, which is standard (GMs recent move not withstanding) in the industry.
The conspiracy theory nonsense comes from both sides. Tesla is being less than forthcoming and deserves the speculation.
YES, run by adults who covered up a serious safety issue! Gimme a break! Anyone who thinks any corporation isn't tilted towards self-interest in its actions and reported numbers... i've got a bridge to sell you.
right. if you ask me (and you didn't) proliferation of short-selling and options trading is the worst thing that's ever happened to the financial markets. to invest is to provide capital with intent of getting a return. that is an honest and purposeful enterprise. short selling and options trading is not investing. it is betting in the casino, and it promotes very bad behavior, as you can see every day by googling "tesla". it is a refuge for counterproductive scoundrels who have no positive intent or vision. Just tearing stuff down and profiting by it. Can you imagine how the industrial titans of the late 19th and early 20th century would have fared if this ridiculous behavior was built into the financial markets back then? we'd have no railroads, cars, airplanes, steel industry, or what have you... grrrrrrr
Nothing wrong with that. But the problem is - what happens when the company continues to thrive and stock doesn't crash but instead heads the other direction? Thats when these short-sellers get desperate and start peddling these lies, FUD and rumors with the help of their pimps in the media. Thats where it borders into criminal activity.
These nefarious tactics works great with a company that makes end-consumer products for soccer moms and Joe average like Tesla.
- When I make a wrong bet as a Long, I have no choice but to simply take my losses and move on
- When the short's bet goes south, they have a choice to work towards the company's failure by creating a negative perception on peoples mind through regular and social media
Thats where shorting as a financial instrument is seriously flawed.
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Menifeer
Member
If you bought the stock from the company (e.g., at IPO), you're investing in it in a way that provides capital to the company. If you bought it on the open market, none of that money goes to the company. It goes to the person who bought it before you.
Nothing wrong with shorting or trading options. Stock of profitable companies rise regardless of shorting or options activity.
And by the way... buying stock is also betting in the casino.
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