They lost me at the opening pic:
Elon sold Joe a 123k+ (S P100D) car...
The rest of the article was also without merit (IMO).
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Elon Musk
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They lost me at the opening pic:
Elon sold Joe a 123k+ (S P100D) car...
The rest of the article was also without merit (IMO).
AZ Desert Driver
Rare combination
Not sure where to ask this- but :
The drone ship just captured the first stage on Sundays launch. Its standing tall in the path of a hurricane. Are they at risk? How fast can that drone ship sail back to a safe port?
The drone ship just captured the first stage on Sundays launch. Its standing tall in the path of a hurricane. Are they at risk? How fast can that drone ship sail back to a safe port?
Nikxice
Active Member
There's no reported issues towing the booster back into Port Canaveral, FL. The booster is expected to be at the dock before noon today. I think the drone ship averages around 6 or 7 knots.
Tom McCool (@Cygnusx112) | Twitter
SwedishAdvocate
Active Member
No matter how much money I'm willing to pay -- that article is unavailable to me living in Sweden!
But just reading the headline:
Where's the problem?
From the article:
“Musk seems utterly insensitive to the fact that his personal judgment is under the microscope right now, and thumbing his nose at old-school standards of executive behavior at a point when investors and customers are looking for signs of effective management is not a good look.“
I guess we can add another disruption to EM list - disrupting old order and unwilling to obtain money on banks terms. I do not see a problem here, to the contrary it is good long term.
“Musk seems utterly insensitive to the fact that his personal judgment is under the microscope right now, and thumbing his nose at old-school standards of executive behavior at a point when investors and customers are looking for signs of effective management is not a good look.“
I guess we can add another disruption to EM list - disrupting old order and unwilling to obtain money on banks terms. I do not see a problem here, to the contrary it is good long term.
SwedishAdvocate
Active Member
That is one persons opinion of a very limited amount of actions during a very limited amount of time.
Also: Is there some sort of agenda behind this article?
If so: What's that agenda?
SwedishAdvocate
Active Member
It's surreal how blind some are to how the CO2-emissions from fossil fuels are literally destroying this planet we all live on. Continually posting pictures of CO2-spewing machines -- even on the Tesla Motors Club Forum(!)... It's like a weird 'I just don't give a s#!t' cirkle jerk...[Just quoting the text won't include the avatar. And the avatar is key... (My edit.)]
israndy
Supercharger Hunter
I don't think the one has to do with the other.
It's a car forum after all, and what do car forums attract? People that like cars.
A Porsche is pretty high on the list of desirable cars without getting crazy expensive. So it's not too surprising that someone who owns a Porsche is looking at Tesla. Some TMC owners have both a Porsche and a Tesla.
Some Porsche owners or ex owners like myself are looking at the Porsche Taycan as a possible way to avoid Elon's craziness. Others are looking at Tesla because of the diesel gate betrayal by the parent company of Porsche.
As to the environment we all have different viewpoints. I personally feel like my fellow countrymen betrayed what I valued by voting for people who don't believe in human caused climate change. So every day it seems like there is one environmental protection law after another being dismantled.
I enjoy talking to people outside my country who seem to be on the right track. But, I think you're taking it a bit too far.
AZ Desert Driver
Rare combination
I am a Tesla fan - drive my Model S with a pride of ownership. I am also an active environmentalist. I cringe when I see rolling coal. But I have not always been this way. I used to have a Porsche 911T that I drove hard (yiippie factor). I also drilled oil wells for a living (petroleum engineer). So I have evolved. But I cant convince my wife to replace her leased Honda with a Model 3. She wants a Lexus. I cringe...but seek martial harmony over environmental evangelism.
I must have tolerance with the others in the world that see things from a different perspective. They cant all act on an enlightened position immediately, and enlightenment usually come slowly to the human race. Jumping and yelling does not hasten the onset of enlightenment.
It's TEsla'Motor club forum. Forum for Tesla Motors funs. Tesla Motors makes not only cars and in 10 years will be not about cars.
Porsche is administratively independent. Nobody is looking at Tesla because of the "diesel gate" among people I know. People looking at Tesla because it's electric, and many look for Tesla because they are fun to drive. Tesla S with some trivial seat adaptations are amazing distance eaters and people even in the dense Europe easily cover 20k+30 in a year.
Anyway what "Elon's craziness" are you talking about and how can you avoid it by buying Taycan? Social FUD in it's core, what are you doing here?
Existing environmental protection laws protect investments in China much more than your health or your country environment. It's always useful to read content instead of looking at the names .
Is that supposed to help me feel better about strongly considering a Porsche Taycan as my next EV?
Are we supposed to forgive the parent company so easily?
The only reason a Porsche Taycan is a viable option is that it will have a supercharge like network. As I understand it the diesel gate settlement forced VW to roll out an EV charging network. Parts of this network are currently being put into place. Would Porsche/Audi even be a viable option without diesel gate?
Now I don't know if anyone else has this same dilemma. Most people don't look at anything too closely. Like my brother bought a VW based on price alone, and didn't even consider what a betrayal diesel gate really was. But, he was never a VW fan or owner.
For myself it was likely a bigger betrayal as I've been a VW/Audi/Porsche owner/fan for most of my life. I didn't have a TDI, but I know people that did. It was pretty popular among people who cared about the environment, and they would talk about it's mileage and that it was clean diesel.
So for them I imagine it was a pretty big betrayal.
When I switch to Tesla it was well before Diesel gate. But, if I had waited I'm sure diesel gate would have played into my decision.
I switched mostly because Tesla offered a new adventure of something I had never experienced before. At the time I was getting addicted to EV toys (like pedal assist bikes, and a boosted board). So basically like you said "fun to drive" and that it's an EV. The supercharger network has a lot to do with it as well along with the SC's. It's really the whole package Tesla offers.
The Elon craziness I'm talking about:
Selling FSD well before they were even close to it, and before there was even a regulatory path to it. On a personal level I didn't like the fact that the resale price of my AP1 car was diminished on really what was a promise about AP2. A promise they still haven't delivered on, and it's almost 2 years later
The constant promising of features/capabilities only for those things to disappear. It's impossible to make an educated purchase of a Tesla because the CEO is all over the place. One day he'a blogging about something, and then you never hear about.
Those are two things were there isn't much social FUD surrounding them. But, obviously things like accusing someone of being a pedo plays into it. That's simply not cool.
As a Tesla owner I feel like I can't even talk about things Elon says/promises without being laughed at, and ridiculed even among my fellow Tesla owners.
As an example I was pretty optimistic about the SC repair rollout, and in fact one of them is at the SC near me. Of course the second I brought it up there was nothing, but negativity. Most of the negativity stemmed from Elon having ZERO creditability among owners. Sure the people in that thread were people waiting months for parts so I understood the negativity. They had justifiable reasons for being cynical that the repair program would fix the issue as it was mostly a parts issue.
It's really gotten to a point where too many promises went no where. Things like "AP will even stop the car if an Alien Spaceship lands on the road in the fog", and "this cool snake charger".
Now I wouldn't say I've made any final decisions. Lots of things come into play with car buying decisions.
I had the perfect opportunity to walk away last week, but I didn't. I was trading it my Model S in on a P3D+, but the P3D+ had a glaring defect. So I could have walked away then and waited for the Taycan.
I didn't because most of my issues what's going on is simply because everything Tesla+Elon is trying to do are difficult thing to do. Plus the P3D+ is a hell of a lot of fun. But, I could easily see jumping ship to Porsche if Elon doesn't make good on promises with EAP+FSD.
That was $8K of my money, and you better believe I intend on getting every cent worth. I see that as being the big separator between Tesla and Porsche/Audi.
Audi was going to bring L3 to the states with the A8, but they didn't have the guts.
The supercharger network they install is just standard CCS1 system with some additions meaningful only for big trucks. CCS1 system would expand in USA with or without VW anyway. 800V Porsche network is just 400Vx2 with two plugs software coupled into "one system".
They install same network in Europe as well without any settlement requirements for that.
More of it 150KW restriction originates not from some "charging deficiencies" but from temperature threshold valid for all types of battery packs usable in passenger cars. Roughly 2C max at some optimal ranges of charging level (20-60%) as long battery cooling is not saturated. Taycan developments started before 2016 anyway.
Ha-ha-ha. Diesel gates happened because the governments introduce progressing emission rate limits without taking into consideration limitations of current designs. Plural here because beside VW you have Fiat Chrysler, Daimler and GM cases.
You hear about VW only because of the settlement, and big wistleblower case.
FSD is indeed craze. Full driving solutions exist since 2000s (provided by Volvo) for example but they can function only in controllable environment. Most of the time. What they were thinking when they introduced it I don't know, but I would not call it Musk's craze. He was involved heavily in SpaceX during these years.
CEOs selling snake oil is regrettably a norm nowadays (800V for passenger cars is a good example), but I would not blame CEOs for that.
Sure, and the most obvious solution is to ignore his tweets and look at what your purchase page offers. You know the same thing you would do with other companies.
Perfectly agree with that. Definitely between May and September Musk was on the age of breakdown.
The question is why? You see "pedo tweet" I see constantly bombardment with nonsense.
If you are so into this "pedo" thing apparently very rare in Internet, ask yourself a question why there is no lawsuit?
Why the lawyer allegedly considering the claim sends request to SpaceX instead fo appropriate court? Trivial question actually.
May be you should look for other owners to hang with or just sell your Tesla and look for a car with "responsible" CEO.
"Parts are expensive and take a long time to ship" is the same story at any repair shop if you look for a sufficiently rare car. Buy Porsche and you will find out.
California lawsuit is DOA. In the US, as the article accurately explains, you have to prove that someone made a false statement and *knew* it was false *and* had malicious motives. That's not provable.
We'll see about the attempted UK lawsuit, since the UK is a "libel plaintiff's paradise".
FirebirdAlpha
Banned
Yes, that's why his "child rapist" email to Buzzfeed is so dangerous.
Vern's lawyer sent a letter that was received by Tesla on August 6th in which they denied and demanded that Elon cease making false claims.
At that point, the claim is false. So now we've got "Elon knew it was false" part - Vern's lawyer told him so, and without any other evidence, that's sufficient.
So then you're left with motive. I think the motive is easy to prove here - Elon's initial (now deleted) tweet was in response to Vern saying "he should take that sub and stick it up his ass."
Seems like that's pretty malicious - he wanted to take revenge against Vern.
Also, you don't have to "know it is false" for it to be libel. It can also be just reckless.
So...
- Did Elon know it was false? Yes, he should have, because Vern's lawyer told him it was false. And he should have known because he (presumably) has zero evidence that indicates he is a pedophile, and thus it's reckless to say it as true.
- Did Elon say it maliciously? Yes, he has a vendetta against Vern because Vern said his sub wasn't viable.
Also, it will be ****ing hilarious if this goes to trial. We'll get to see all the insides of Elon and Tesla's PR team.
I can't believe they wouldn't just pay him $200k to make this whole thing go away and get out of the headlines.
Ha ha ha, that is funny. By extension are all defendants innocent (defendant's attorney) or guilty (prosecuting attorney)?
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