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Elon Musk
- Thread starter graham
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And/or better marketing. Different market too. Amazon has only been doing to Australia what they did to everyone else for a few years.
Different company. They had a license with Sears, but then bought the rights to the name in Australia.
The same company also has stores called Target.
Barklikeadog
Active Member
Saw this come up on Business (tabloid) Insider.
He knew this was gonna happen. Don't fall in line, get cancelled.
A SpaceX flight attendant said Elon Musk exposed himself and propositioned her for sex, documents show. The company paid $250,000 for her silence
A SpaceX flight attendant said Elon Musk exposed himself and propositioned her for sex, documents show. The company paid $250,000 for her silence.
SpaceX paid a flight attendant $250,000 in severance after she accused Elon Musk of exposing himself and offering to buy her a horse in exchange for a sexual massage.
www.businessinsider.com
A SpaceX flight attendant said Elon Musk exposed himself and propositioned her for sex, documents show. The company paid $250,000 for her silence.
SpaceX paid a flight attendant $250,000 in severance after she accused Elon Musk of exposing himself and offering to buy her a horse in exchange for a sexual massage.
www.businessinsider.com
He knew this was gonna happen. Don't fall in line, get cancelled.
Tam
Well-Known Member
The case was settled out of court.
Both sides got what they wanted.
The lady did not get a horse but got $250,000 for her silence.
The accused has stayed out of jail and the secret is well kept by the settlement.
If some how the secret leaked out as in the case of Bill Cosby, the Genie was put back and he's out of jail.
Money can be very powerful as demonstrated by Bill Cosby's case.
A contract is a contract. A settlement is a settlement. The law must show that it honors settlements or otherwise rich people will lose faith in the system and someone might not get neither a horse nor $250,000.
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An NDA is not about free speech. Sure, it's easy to combine them together in your example, but doesn't offer any points. An NDA is between two parties about protection of property or restricting disclosing details to unauthorized parties.
Elon Musk has just been good at sniffing other people's potential successes and forcing or buying his way into them as a venture capitalist. Call him a successful VC guy, but don't call him some sort of visionary. He's invented literally nothing.
People speak of Elon Musk as having been a founder of PayPal, but he wasn't. It's not really true. His competing company was failing, so he elbowed his way into the already-founded PayPal.
They also refer to Musk as a founder of Tesla. Again...he wasn't...not remotely true...he was just a key investor after they were moving forward. In fact, he SUED them to be called a "founder." And without Government tax credits and incentives, Tesla would've failed...they hadn't even achieved independent "break even" profitability until recently.
Also, SpaceX succeeded largely because NASA wanted their "commercialization of space" effort (Commercial Crew, program, etc.) to succeed and handed SpaceX critical heat shield and engine technologies....not to mention *BILLIONS OF DOLLARS*.
Also, let's not forget that Elon Must got his start by **inheriting an emerald mine** in South Africa and using his family wealth to buy into things.
Some of the receipts:
On Elon not being a Tesla founder:
www.greencarreports.com
www.motorbiscuit.com
On Elon not starting PayPal..like...just read the Wikipedia entry...LOL:
On NASA Giving SpaceX critical technologies, including the heat shield formula and engine designs:
www.nasa.gov
space.stackexchange.com
People speak of Elon Musk as having been a founder of PayPal, but he wasn't. It's not really true. His competing company was failing, so he elbowed his way into the already-founded PayPal.
They also refer to Musk as a founder of Tesla. Again...he wasn't...not remotely true...he was just a key investor after they were moving forward. In fact, he SUED them to be called a "founder." And without Government tax credits and incentives, Tesla would've failed...they hadn't even achieved independent "break even" profitability until recently.
Also, SpaceX succeeded largely because NASA wanted their "commercialization of space" effort (Commercial Crew, program, etc.) to succeed and handed SpaceX critical heat shield and engine technologies....not to mention *BILLIONS OF DOLLARS*.
Also, let's not forget that Elon Must got his start by **inheriting an emerald mine** in South Africa and using his family wealth to buy into things.
Some of the receipts:
On Elon not being a Tesla founder:
Tesla existed before Elon Musk: Founders on how they pitched the idea
Tesla was founded by Martin Eberhard and Marc Tarpenning, but Elon Musk brought the investment to the table that brought the Roadster project to fruition.
Elon Musk Wanted to Be Tesla’s Co-Founder so Badly That It Took a Lawsuit to Make It Legal on Paper
Elon Musk wanted to be known as a co-founder so badly that it took a lawsuit with the real founders for him to be listed as one!
www.motorbiscuit.com
On Elon not starting PayPal..like...just read the Wikipedia entry...LOL:
On NASA Giving SpaceX critical technologies, including the heat shield formula and engine designs:
Phenolic-Impregnated Carbon Ablator (PICA) Heat Shield Technology is Used by SpaceX - NASA
Phenolic-Impregnated Carbon Ablator (PICA) heat shield technology, a light-weight material capable of withstanding high temperatures, is used by SpaceX on the Dragon capsules.
www.nasa.gov
What NASA documents did SpaceX use to design their engines?
I've watched this (excellent) panel discussion titled 'Our Future in Space'. Bill Nye says at 22:48 that SpaceX got their engine design from work done by NASA, which they developed into a working
space.stackexchange.com
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Tam
Well-Known Member
Elon Musk's action by tweeting:
Sorry to be a free speech absolutist.
created a reaction to disprove the "absolutist" part.
When the absolute price for taking over Twitter is $54.20 and it was signed off but then it is being asked to be re-negotiated down, then that price is not "absolute", it has the exception that if you can public prove <5% spam.
Same with free speech. If comes with an exception then it is not an "absolute".
The powerful can dictate their term like absolutely $54.20 then add an exception. Same with absolute free speech, then adding NDA exception.
Absolute means absolute. Adding an exception like "NDA" is no longer "absolute".
Elon Musk would escape this reaction if he restrained himself in speaking certain words.
Buying Twitter claiming free speech does not help to keep the skeleton in the closet either.
Thus, it's time to evaluate whether his action of taking over Twitter is well worth the stock price depreciation for both Tesla and Twitter or not.
Terminator857
Active Member
I read it. In the box at right it list Elon as one of the founders.
I'm certainly no fan of Elon's Twitter-related antics lately (just look at my post history in this thread and the other Elon/Twitter thread), but all your allegations below are either gross exaggerations or incorrect. The fact that these allegations proceed DOES indicate that there are concerted efforts to smear his name. On the other hand, I think he's also done plenty to smear his own name.
Anyway, your accusations are a simple Gish gallop - and probably not worth the time to retort, but I will do so quickly.
Not sure what your statements about govt incentives and profitability have to do with anything.
Anyway, your accusations are a simple Gish gallop - and probably not worth the time to retort, but I will do so quickly.
I don't know how you can claim this with a straight face. He founded X.com and clearly has a hand in engineering at Tesla and SpaceX. He also has multiple patents to his name.
X.com merged with Confinity.com which was later renamed PayPal - according to your own reference!
Potato-potato - it's clear that Tesla would have failed without Musk's direct intervention during the launch of the Roadster and never would have left the ground without Elon's funding. Elon has been there since basically the beginning.
Not sure what your statements about govt incentives and profitability have to do with anything.
Again, a gross mis-characterization of facts, at best. Yes, SpaceX had a lot of help from NASA. But what does that have to do with your claims here?
Again, this appears to be a case where some facts are grossly inflated. There is no evidence that Elon received any substantial amount of money from his father or emerald mines. Basically all of his wealth came from PayPal's success.
Electric700
Active Member
On Elon's possible relationship with the flight attendant, may be the arrangement she got was stipulated in her contract. In his position though I think it's better to seek relationships outside of any of his companies or projects. In general, it's probably best to not mix business and relationships for multiple reasons. I hope it works out though. She probably just wants to be left alone and not the focus of media attention. Also I hope he will try to be more diplomatic politically since it will only help him.
Let Elon and Tesla refocus on making excellent EVs, launching FSD and the next generation Supercharger network!
Let Elon and Tesla refocus on making excellent EVs, launching FSD and the next generation Supercharger network!
Erleichda
Member
Most of this is not true.Elon Musk has just been good at sniffing other people's potential successes and forcing or buying his way into them as a venture capitalist. Call him a successful VC guy, but don't call him some sort of visionary. He's invented literally nothing.
People speak of Elon Musk as having been a founder of PayPal, but he wasn't. It's not really true. His competing company was failing, so he elbowed his way into the already-founded PayPal.
They also refer to Musk as a founder of Tesla. Again...he wasn't...not remotely true...he was just a key investor after they were moving forward. In fact, he SUED them to be called a "founder." And without Government tax credits and incentives, Tesla would've failed...they hadn't even achieved independent "break even" profitability until recently.
Also, SpaceX succeeded largely because NASA wanted their "commercialization of space" effort (Commercial Crew, program, etc.) to succeed and handed SpaceX critical heat shield and engine technologies....not to mention *BILLIONS OF DOLLARS*.
Also, let's not forget that Elon Must got his start by **inheriting an emerald mine** in South Africa and using his family wealth to buy into things.
Some of the receipts:
On Elon not being a Tesla founder:
Tesla existed before Elon Musk: Founders on how they pitched the idea
Tesla was founded by Martin Eberhard and Marc Tarpenning, but Elon Musk brought the investment to the table that brought the Roadster project to fruition.
Elon Musk Wanted to Be Tesla’s Co-Founder so Badly That It Took a Lawsuit to Make It Legal on Paper
Elon Musk wanted to be known as a co-founder so badly that it took a lawsuit with the real founders for him to be listed as one!
On Elon not starting PayPal..like...just read the Wikipedia entry...LOL:
On NASA Giving SpaceX critical technologies, including the heat shield formula and engine designs:
Phenolic-Impregnated Carbon Ablator (PICA) Heat Shield Technology is Used by SpaceX - NASA
Phenolic-Impregnated Carbon Ablator (PICA) heat shield technology, a light-weight material capable of withstanding high temperatures, is used by SpaceX on the Dragon capsules.
What NASA documents did SpaceX use to design their engines?
I've watched this (excellent) panel discussion titled 'Our Future in Space'. Bill Nye says at 22:48 that SpaceX got their engine design from work done by NASA, which they developed into a working
Musk was for all intents, a founder. Eberhardt had a prototype only that never would have become a production car. @enn_nafnlaus on Twitter has deep threads/receipts on this issue.
He was not given an emerald mine, nor riches from it. He was abused by his father and his Mum had to support them financially. At most he got $20k from his family.
The Paypal history is a much longer story, and Elon was instrumental.
Yes, NASA was a great partner, and comprised much of the company too initially. This only got them so far: they ALL almost failed to attain a successful launch. This would have been the end.
Look to my recent post for a better explanation of what is going on with Musk and politics. This here isn't the story.
Not even that, Eberhardt only knew of a company whose prototype they wanted to commercialize (AC Propulsion's T-Zero). Most (all?) of which didn't make it to the Roadster.
It is almost universal that settlements out of court have a gag order as part of them. Usually neither party is allowed to talk about the case.
It is often used by deep pockets defendants to get plaintiffs who are making things up to go away because the legal costs of defending a small case usually isn't worth it. Las Vegas casinos have video cameras everywhere outside the gaming areas to have evidence to get fake slip and fall cases thrown out. I saw a compilation of fake slip and fall incidents in LV casinos some years ago. The behavior of the plaintiffs showed it was pretty obviously fake.
Now I also believe that we should have a law that nullifies NDAs that are tied to illegal behavior. But in this sort of case the behavior would have to be proven in court, which is pretty much impossible unless there was a witness. The problem is there is usually not a witness in these sorts of cases.
If more stories come out and we begin to see a pattern like Cosby, then maybe it is true. On the other hand, women (and some men) have lied about these sorts of things too. Every claim of sexual harassment needs to be taken seriously, but not all are true.
He's hardly a slacker.
Yes, he did start one of the companies that became Paypal and he was the first CEO of Paypal. For all intents and purposes, he was a founder.
Yes, Tesla did start before Elon took and active role, but it was going nowhere until he got involved. Elon has said if he had started the company he would have called it something else than Tesla.
The tax incentive did help Tesla in the early years, and Tesla did get a small loan from the government to buy the Fremont factory, but Tesla paid off the loan early and only had an inventive that was available to every car company in the world selling cars in the US. Ford still hasn't paid back all of their loans they got at that time. GM and Chrysler got mega help from the government just to stay in business.
What is remarkable is how limited the help Tesla got from the government.
NASA is SpaceX's customer. So a successful company is bad if they have customers now? SpaceX's biggest customers was always going to be one or more government entities. The US had minimal launch abilities of their own at the time and the plans for the government to build there own wasn't going anywhere.
We should be grateful SpaceX does exist. If it didn't, the US would have no ability to get astronauts back and forth to the ISS or launch much of anything. The Russians are less willing to cooperate in space projects right now.
I saw something a few years ago where somebody looked through records and found the truth. Errol Musk owned a tiny part of an emerald mine for a few years, but it was less than 1%. He made a little money from it, but it was basically beer money.
Elon's father has exaggerated a lot of things to make himself look bigger than he is. He's descended from the Afrikaans who once ruled South Africa and his generation of the family lived far more modestly than his ancestors did.
For anyone who wants to know Elon's true background, I recommend Ashley Vance's book. It is a few years old, but tells the unvarnished truth about Elon. He has done some great things, and he has a lot of accomplishments that he really did do himself. But he also has feet of clay, like everyone else.
I find it amazing that this bogus emerald mine story keeps cropping up as some claim that Elon was born with a silver spoon in his mouth, when he wasn't when another tech mogul actually was and nobody talks about it. Bill Gates' grandfather founded what was one of the largest law firms in Washington state and his father was a partner there when Gates was growing up. Bogle and Gates dissolved in 1999, but it was a heavy hitter in the Washington legal scene for over 100 years.
Bill Gates really did grow up rich. He went to the most prestigious high school in Seattle. My partner went to a private college in Walla Walla (on scholarships, she was not wealthy) and some of her classmates had gone to high school with Gates. Gates was quite smart, but he was also very privileged.
On the deal he made with IBM for PC-DOS, he deliberately slipped some language into the contract that allowed his company to make their own version. The IBM lawyers thinking they were dealing with some ignorant rubes missed it. Because they could sell their own version of the software they made for IBM, IBM quickly lost their monopoly on that market. That sort of thing was a move he learned from his father and grandfather.
Elon is a very flawed person and his behavior the last few months has been very erratic. I do think it's time somebody else ran Tesla. Elon got the company to profitability against steep odds, but it's time for someone who is more boring and steady to lead the company.
But I don't discount Elon's achievements either. The world is not black and white. Somebody who is great in one or two areas can also be horrible in others.
It's nice to know that there are other people out there that can see both sides of the coin in a reasoned manner. Even here on TMC which is heavily moderated and discussion civil for the most part thanks to the tireless efforts of the moderators, discussion and opinion is tilted heavily in Elon's favor (read the investor roundtable thread, for example).
This is not a surprise, given the main topic of the forum, but I find it interesting just how many people either ignore, excuse or agree with his erratic behavior.
Why is it wrong to expect more?
If Elon's personal mission statement is to ensure the survival of the human race, it would seem that working to build consensus among people would be part of the same mission - not driving a wedges into an already splitting chasm.
jabloomf1230
Minister of Silly Walks
All I know is that a couple of months ago when I said that Elon was exhibiting signs of mental stress, the response was, "Well, he's been diagnosed with Asperger's.", which of course was not what I meant. His erratic behavior continues and people are still defending his actions, based on his past accomplishments. I have no idea what's wrong with him, but I think that he needs a vacation. Maybe a sabbatical is in order.
AquaY
Member
I think he is more rational now and at ease than he was before
If you look hard enough, all people who achieve great things also have flaws. This obsession with everyone has to be perfect or get canceled is crazy town.
Churchill was a mass of flaws, but saved the UK in its hour of need. Henry Ford was very anti-Semitic. Steve Jobs denied paternity for his daughter for years.
Almost all the great industrialists were/are incredibly difficult to work for.
Some people deserve to be canceled. IMO Bill Cosby's crimes outweigh his accomplishments, same with Jimmy Savile and Rolf Harris.
Some people did very little good in their lives and clearly should be canceled like Jeffrey Epstein.
Elon doesn't deserve to be canceled, but he also is far from flawless and there are some areas where he is outside his skill set and he should leave those areas for other people more qualified.
As far as the recent sexual harassment story, thus far it's an N of 1. More women may come out of the woodwork, or it might just be a one off. Time will tell.
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