Elon Musk

[mongo]

Some choose to focus on the final letter or its content to claim this is some free speech issue while ignoring the admitted month of disruption leading up to it.

Verge:

One employee who had input in writing the letter, who asked to remain anonymous, argued that the general sentiment among other employees is that Shotwell’s email is “tone deaf.” The employee claimed that the letter was the result of a “month of dedicated hard work and soliciting feedback to try and make sure we got as much input as possible.”

Shotwell:

But blanketing thousands of people across the company with repeated unsolicited emails and asking them to sign letters and fill out unsponsored surveys during the work day is not acceptable, goes against our documented handbook policy, and does not show the strong judgement needed to work in this very challenging space transportation sector. We performed an investigation and have terminated a number of employees involved.

The only hard work employees of SpaceX should be doing with SpaceX resources and while on SpaceX time, is SpaceX development.

Full Shotwell :

You may have received an unsolicited request from a small group of SpaceX employees for your signature on an “open letter” yesterday and your participation in a related survey. Based on diverse employee feedback, this has upset many. That is, the letter, solicitations and general process made employees feel uncomfortable, intimidated and bullied, and/or angry because the letter pressured them to sign onto something that did not reflect their views. Employees also complained that it interfered with their ability to focus on and do their work. We have 3 launches within 37 hours for critical satellites this weekend, we have to support the astronauts we delivered to the ISS and get cargo Dragon back to the flight-ready, and after receiving environmental approval early this week, we are on the cusp of the first orbital launch attempt of Starship. We have too much critical work to accomplish and no need for this kind of overreaching activism — our current leadership team is more dedicated to ensuring we have a great and ever-improving work environment than any I have seen in my 35-year career.


We solicit and expect our employees to report all concerns to their leadership, senior management, HR, or Legal. But blanketing thousands of people across the company with repeated unsolicited emails and asking them to sign letters and fill out unsponsored surveys during the work day is not acceptable, goes against our documented handbook policy, and does not show the strong judgement needed to work in this very challenging space transportation sector. We performed an investigation and have terminated a number of employees involved.


I am sorry for this distraction. Please stay focused on the SpaceX mission, and use your time at work to do your best work. This is how we will get to Mars.

 

[mongo]

They walked right into his trap. Elon said he wanted to layoff 10% of his workforce. I've recently lost mucho respect for Elon as a person while maintaining my admiration for him as an inventor.

Elon said 10% of salaried non-direct-production staff at Tesla. That is ccompletely different from SpaceX.

 

[golfcart]

This is nothing more than people with a particular political ideology not liking the face of their company expressing ideas they disagree with. People of other political ideologies deal with this all the time but still manage to do their work during work hours.

And I get it. I wish all of these CEOs of companies would STFU about politics all the time. Unfortunately these particular “activists” don’t seem to be able to handle things through the proper channels. Going around during work time trying to get employees to participate in your activism then leaking the letter to the press has nothing to do with “free speech” issues. I have to charge all my time to a code based on the project I’m working on, what code were they charging this time to? What code we’re all the employees taking the survey charging to? How many employees thought this process was distracting them from getting their work done?

 

[Cosmacelf]

If you can‘t understand “free speech absolutist” was referring to online discussion forums (aka Twitter) rather than everything else in the world, then there’s nothing else I can say.

Taking it up one level, those that are criticizing Musk don’t understand how corporations work. And then when people point out how corporations and good CEOs work, we get “but that isn’t how it should be”. Really? if you think corporations should be run differently, you will be continually surprised and frustrated with the world since it will never quite live up to your expectations OR you could learn how the world really works…

 

[T3SLAROD]

If you can‘t understand “free speech absolutist” was referring to online discussion forums (aka Twitter) rather than everything else in the world, then there’s nothing else I can say.

Taking it up one level, those that are criticizing Musk don’t understand how corporations work. And then when people point out how corporations and good CEOs work, we get “but that isn’t how it should be”. Really? if you think corporations should be run differently, you will be continually surprised and frustrated with the world since it will never quite live up to your expectations OR you could learn how the world really works…

Aren't online discussion forums "corporations"?

I cant say what I want about Musk on this forum without it being moved to place on this forum where there cant be discussion.

 

[Cosmacelf]

Aren't online discussion forums "corporations"?

No. and thank you for making my point, I guess?

I cant say what I want about Musk on this forum without it being moved to place on this forum where there cant be discussion.

Then discuss Musk on Reddit or Twitter or elsewhere. TMC has rules (moderation) … just like corporations (employee handbook and boss’s expectations), and society at large (laws).

 

[T3SLAROD]

No. and thank you for making my point, I guess?



Then discuss Musk on Reddit or Twitter or elsewhere. TMC has rules (moderation) … just like corporations (employee handbook and boss’s expectations), and society at large (laws).

So Twitter isn’t a “corporation”?

 

[Cosmacelf]

So Twitter isn’t a “corporation”?

There’s a difference between the product that Twitter provides (a free speech platform under Musk) and how employees within Twitter must conduct themselves. As a user, you can use Twitter to promote an anti-capitalist March on Twitter headquarters. As an employee, you cannot do the same. And you certainly can’t use internal resources (either an internal message board, or your time during working hours) to do anything other than your job function.

If you have a complaint about how the company operates, then take it up with your boss. If your complaint is with your boss, then take it up with HR. If you don’t like the CEO then then find another company to work for.

 

[T3SLAROD]

There’s a difference between the product that Twitter provides (a free speech platform under Musk) and how employees within Twitter must conduct themselves. As a user, you can use Twitter to promote an anti-capitalist March on Twitter headquarters. As an employee, you cannot do the same. And you certainly can’t use internal resources (either an internal message board, or your time during working hours) to do anything other than your job function.

If you have a complaint about how the company operates, then take it up with your boss. If your complaint is with your boss, then take it up with HR. If you don’t like the CEO then then find another company to work for.

So when Musk was tweeting about his political leanings was he on company time or his own time?

 

[JRP3]

If you can‘t understand “free speech absolutist” was referring to online discussion forums (aka Twitter) rather than everything else in the world, then there’s nothing else I can say.

Free speech with caveats is not an "absolutist".

 

[Gixx1300R]

So when Musk was tweeting about his political leanings was he on company time or his own time?

CEOs are never on their own time since their behavior and language can effect their companies stock prices

 

[Nolakai]

What makes you think that way? Elon chooses select areas to show population decline, but ignores that population as a whole has been increasing and is projected to continue increasing by everyone who does such estimates. Projections of population growth - Wikipedia.

There is a lot of excellent scholarship on collapse and resilience. My partner, an archaeologist, studies and writes about it and has published widely. The idea that population decrease will cause collapse is just not grounded in any data at all. Population pressures lead to environmental pressures. When a community outgrows its resources, problems cascade and eventually the political system and the society changes dramatically. When we talk about 'collapse' in the past, we're talking about political systems collapsing. With climate disruption/collapse that we're facing right now, the threat is to every level of society, not just our political systems (that are pretty clearly facing incredible stress right now too). Even the elites will eventually suffer when there are no more pollinators and half of the planet is too hot for human habitation. Joe Tainter wrote a seminal book about collapse called Collapse of Complex Societies back in the 80s. He argues that as societies become progressively more complex to solve problems brought on by its growth and complexity, there are diminishing returns, and eventually the political system that the society supports collapses. There is a dream that technical fixes will save us from the environmental problems brought on by technical innovations over the past one hundred years. Technical advancement brings with it more problems.

The vast majority of the 1st world has much cleaner air, soil and water than 50 years ago despite a massive increase in population thanks to technological advancements in pollution control and energy production. First world populations are healthier and living longer than ever before. First world populations are largely stable if not shrinking.

The developing 3rd world are rightfully very busy clawing their way to 1st world living conditions and will burn alot of carbon to get there. World poverty rates have plummeted in the past 30 years thanks to plentiful and cheap energy which is a GREAT THING for billions and billions of human beings and worth some short term damage to our ecosystem IMHO.

I suspect in less than 50 years most of the 3rd world will reach 1st world living status, world poverty will continue to decline and the earth's population will stabilize.

We can't be complacent and need to continue to work for non-carbon energy sources, but I think our overall future is bright.

Actually, US life span has been dropping, even before the pandemic, and air quality is deteriorating due to wildfires, dust, etc. Optimism is fine, but the future is made of the present moment, and our present moment is one of environmental catastrophes and political instability, and not just in the US. Resilience is found in community and cooperation (this has been true throughout human history) and we cannot even agree on how to protect kids in schools or keep vulnerable people safe from a deadly virus. Even the word "community" sounds quaint in contemporary American politics.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

I'll point out that there has been zero supporting data for this claim.

Has there been any supporting data for the claim that massages were even a thing on these SpaceX flights?

If there is then there is foundational support that the environment for this sexual harassment existed. I tried to find that out, but the sexual harassment claim is the only thing that shows up in my search.

The sexual harassment is usually a he-said/she-said thing, but if massages were a thing then quite a people will know about it. If they happened it would have created the conditions for this type of harassment.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

This is nothing more than people with a particular political ideology not liking the face of their company expressing ideas they disagree with. People of other political ideologies deal with this all the time but still manage to do their work during work hours.

And I get it. I wish all of these CEOs of companies would STFU about politics all the time. Unfortunately these particular “activists” don’t seem to be able to handle things through the proper channels. Going around during work time trying to get employees to participate in your activism then leaking the letter to the press has nothing to do with “free speech” issues. I have to charge all my time to a code based on the project I’m working on, what code were they charging this time to? What code we’re all the employees taking the survey charging to? How many employees thought this process was distracting them from getting their work done?

Ugh, I detest the time tracking crap.

There absolutely should be a category for improving moral or making the place a better place to work. I think most of us have wasted company time while venting about something going on at our place of employment. Maybe its politically related or maybe its the 1" gaps in bathroom stalls. It's just human nature to gripe about things, and I personally think its important for companies to listen to its workers.

Sure these things are a distraction, but sometimes its less of a distraction to address the concerns and then move on.

This issue at SpaceX was likely brewing for months where it was costing productivity.

They might think that by firing the workers that the problem will go away, but it won't. Instead there will likely be a lawsuit for wrongful termination, and workers wasting time talking about that. There is a also a huge moral impact.

I'm not all that concerned about SpaceX on the whole. I think they're so far ahead of competitors that it will simply be a distraction.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

Elon is pro-population growth so he's probably anti-choice

I don't think we can infer that.

To my knowledge he's not that religious.

Just someone who is a bit right because of the need to protect his business assets.

 

[JRP3]

Has there been any supporting data for the claim that massages were even a thing on these SpaceX flights?

If there is then there is foundational support that the environment for this sexual harassment existed. I tried to find that out, but the sexual harassment claim is the only thing that shows up in my search.

The sexual harassment is usually a he-said/she-said thing, but if massages were a thing then quite a people will know about it. If they happened it would have created the conditions for this type of harassment.

Elon said he doesn't even have flight attendants and no one has spoken up to dispute that claim.

While replying to Tesla investor Sawyer Merritt on Twitter, Musk wrote, “Astute observers of my plane (and there many) will note that I don’t use a flight attendant. Moreover, only fruit and nuts are stocked on the plane. I use flights as an opportunity to fast.”

'Don't use a flight attendant': Elon Musk amid sexual harassment allegations

Days after reports of Elon Musk’s SpaceX paying $250,000 to settle sexual harassment allegations by a flight attendant emerged, the billionaire entrepreneur said that he does not have a flight attendant on planes and that only fruit and nuts are stocked.

www.businesstoday.in

 

[JRP3]

I don't think we can infer that.

To my knowledge he's not that religious.

Just someone who is a bit right because of the need to protect his business assets.

Tesla pays travel expenses for out of state procedures

Tesla covers travel costs for workers seeking abortions

The electric car company joins the ranks of other major companies who've introduced a similar policy to benefit workers affected by new abortion restrictions.

abc13.com

Funny Elon statement from the article, clearly not true:
"I would prefer to stay out of politics."

 

[mongo]

Funny Elon statement from the article, clearly not true:
"I would prefer to stay out of politics."

Hmmm... he's also said he'd prefer not to be CEO.
Can't always get what you want...

 

[JRP3]

Hmmm... he's also said he'd prefer not to be CEO.
Can't always get what you want...

Not really equivalent, he managed to run the company for a long time without getting extremely political.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

Elon said he doesn't even have flight attendants and no one has spoken up to dispute that claim.

They wouldn't have paid $250K to a flight attendant that was never on a flight with Elon.

There was a payment, and non-disclosure agreement signed.