RedP85+
Member
Yes because discounting a car stops people from buying ICE cars from a "dealer network" that is there to protect us from the unscrupulous car manufacturers.
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Elon: No Discounts !
- Thread starter ElectricTundra
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- Elon Musk Tesla Inc.
jeffro01
Active Member
Gotta love all the whining in this thread... Good lord people... This is a problem that was inevitable for Tesla and wasn't a matter of "if" it could happen but "when" it would happen...
As Tesla continues to sell cars they are going to continue to expand their market reach which is why you see so many changes to the low end battery sizes in an effort to draw more buyers in. Tesla also has to balance this practice with demand and the mantra of the company which is "no discounts for anyone"... Eventually those two things were going to intersect and they did at the end of this Q...
Tesla has to build inventory cars now, it can no longer rely solely on custom orders as too many people can't wait and must have it NOW. Unfortunately this type of demand is very hard to forecast so Tesla is likely going to fluctuate between having too many inventory cars and not enough of them. Keep in mind that a lot of Tesla employees are not new to the automotive industry and old habits die hard... As such, it's not surprising that discounting became a sales tool that was abused towards the end of this Q. All Elon is trying to do is make it clear what the company policy is and reinforce that in an effort to avoid this issue in future quarters. I suspect he also was trying to make it clear to perspective buyers that this shouldn't have happened in the first place and you shouldn't expect it to happen again at the end of the next Q.
I don't see anything wrong with Elon's response, his email, or the policy in general. Some of you have quite the imagination as it pertains to the various conspiracy theories and such that have been floated around here. Simple fact is, no one here knows what Elon did or didn't know before that email came out. We do know how he dealt with it and how it'll be handled going forward.
So what exactly is the problem here? Are some of you really that jealous that others were able to capitalize on a perfect storm of circumstances and you weren't???...
Jeff
As Tesla continues to sell cars they are going to continue to expand their market reach which is why you see so many changes to the low end battery sizes in an effort to draw more buyers in. Tesla also has to balance this practice with demand and the mantra of the company which is "no discounts for anyone"... Eventually those two things were going to intersect and they did at the end of this Q...
Tesla has to build inventory cars now, it can no longer rely solely on custom orders as too many people can't wait and must have it NOW. Unfortunately this type of demand is very hard to forecast so Tesla is likely going to fluctuate between having too many inventory cars and not enough of them. Keep in mind that a lot of Tesla employees are not new to the automotive industry and old habits die hard... As such, it's not surprising that discounting became a sales tool that was abused towards the end of this Q. All Elon is trying to do is make it clear what the company policy is and reinforce that in an effort to avoid this issue in future quarters. I suspect he also was trying to make it clear to perspective buyers that this shouldn't have happened in the first place and you shouldn't expect it to happen again at the end of the next Q.
I don't see anything wrong with Elon's response, his email, or the policy in general. Some of you have quite the imagination as it pertains to the various conspiracy theories and such that have been floated around here. Simple fact is, no one here knows what Elon did or didn't know before that email came out. We do know how he dealt with it and how it'll be handled going forward.
So what exactly is the problem here? Are some of you really that jealous that others were able to capitalize on a perfect storm of circumstances and you weren't???...
Jeff
I agree with almost everything you posted...but to think this was "abuse" and not done with Leon's knowledge is incredible
The lying is what is unacceptable.
The lying is what is unacceptable.
Second. Much more plausible to think this was a don't look don't tell situation that he is covering up by lying. Just don't tweet and everything is solved for me at least.
jeffro01
Active Member
What I'd like to know is how either of you can possibly be so sure about something you have no direct insight into.
Jeff
3Victoria
Active Member
Yep. I LOVE discounts too, so I'm all for it. But to think that the top guy doesn't know about it is denial. We're talking about thousands of dollars per car here. At any other company, if that was done without approval, the employees would be fired. Also,it is not just the employees doing the sales, their immediate superior had to sign off on the sales, and THEY would be fired too. As of today, there's no news of any Tesla employees getting canned. Therefore, the discounts were authorized.
I was referring to the discounts "straight from the factory". During September, I saw hundreds and hundreds of cars added to for sale on Tesla's site and could see the discounts listed for each car. At one time, I think there were over 400 refreshed inventory cars listed as well as hundreds of older inventory and CPO cars. Late last week, over 300 cars disappeared all at once, probably because they'd no longer be able to deliver by the end of September.
Also, representatives from Tesla kept calling me and emailing me for the first two weeks of September, trying to get me to move my delayed delivery up to September or to switch to an existing inventory model. I was very tempted as I could've easily saved $10,000 but I'm in the process of refinancing the house and putting in a driveway and couldn't wrap those up before the end of September.
There were also major discounts on many of the P90s but I'd have to check the data to see if there were more deals on the 75s or the P90s.
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Chopr147
Active Member
Elon is running 3 companies, was pretty busy with blown up rockets and planning trips to Mars. Why is it so incredible he didn't know about a few discounts being given at certain showrooms? I don't have a problem with his response, he should have attempted to keep it in-house though.
Chopr see post above yours.
It wasn't a "few discounts at certain showrooms". They were in the same system that ALL showrooms access.
Meanwhile his tweet claims: “seems to be limited to a small number of cases.”
That is not true.
So in your scenario where he never knew what measures were being applied, did he also investigate after the reddit complaint, but somehow didn't get the truth from his staff, and was able to make that tweet without knowing it to be a lie?
It wasn't a "few discounts at certain showrooms". They were in the same system that ALL showrooms access.
Meanwhile his tweet claims: “seems to be limited to a small number of cases.”
That is not true.
So in your scenario where he never knew what measures were being applied, did he also investigate after the reddit complaint, but somehow didn't get the truth from his staff, and was able to make that tweet without knowing it to be a lie?
Some discounts were on cars still in Fremont being built and EM didn't know?
If some small chance I am wrong there's a much bigger problem at Tesla than I am implying. So I am actually giving Tesla the benefit of the doubt. Where you are saying EM did not know about things happening at the factory under his nose.
Who's really "slandering" EM.. me or you?
Here's how I see new cars being sold as inventory cars.
The stores get the notice to move as much product as possible. Discounts on inventory cars OK'd. Inventory cars include demo cars (sit in the showroom), test drive cars, and service loaners. So they sell all those cars, and order their replacements -- stores have to have demo, test drive and loaner cars, and have to order replacements as they sell them.
Normally, inventory cars have a minimum amount of time or mileage they have to reach before they are eligible for sale. To accelerate sales, this waiting period was waived, and they could be sold immediately upon receipt, or in some cases it looks like, while they were still in transit.
This is probably what is upsetting to Elon. The waiting/mileage period that inventory cars needed to accumulate before sale was a reasonable reason for a discount -- the cars racked up miles and wear and tear during that period. Selling the car when it was still brand new, before it had served its purpose as an inventory car, is just like selling new cars at a discount.
The stores get the notice to move as much product as possible. Discounts on inventory cars OK'd. Inventory cars include demo cars (sit in the showroom), test drive cars, and service loaners. So they sell all those cars, and order their replacements -- stores have to have demo, test drive and loaner cars, and have to order replacements as they sell them.
Normally, inventory cars have a minimum amount of time or mileage they have to reach before they are eligible for sale. To accelerate sales, this waiting period was waived, and they could be sold immediately upon receipt, or in some cases it looks like, while they were still in transit.
This is probably what is upsetting to Elon. The waiting/mileage period that inventory cars needed to accumulate before sale was a reasonable reason for a discount -- the cars racked up miles and wear and tear during that period. Selling the car when it was still brand new, before it had served its purpose as an inventory car, is just like selling new cars at a discount.
jeffro01
Active Member
I'm continually amazed at just how little the average person understand the life of a CEO, much less one that's running essentially 3 companies. You act as if each and every company decision passes through the CEO... News flash... It doesn't, not even close in most cases. CEOs set policy and strategic business decisions, and depending on their demeanor and available time, will get involved in other issues if a real or perceived threat to the company\brand exists.
That is why Elon got involved with the Model X quality\assembly issues early on that some made such a big deal about, especially the sleeping at the factory part. There are other examples of Elon needing to get involved in other things that came up and such. You'll also notice that as the company has grown and expanded, he's less and less involved in the direct day to day operations, which again is perfectly normal and reasonable.
To that end I find it highly unlikely that he had nearly the visibility into the current sales tactics and operations that you guys seem to think he had. The way I read his email was something like this "I set a sales goal but didn't reinforce the primary pricing strategy because I didn't think I needed to, now I'm finding out I should have, so that's what I'm doing and that's what it'll be like going forward."
Jeff
I'm going with Jeff on this. The Captain said "Move these cars!" The Sales dept said "Aye Aye!" And now the Captain is saying "Wait, what? I didn't say give them away!"
Plausible deniability is the problem. (there isn't any here) Watergate was a tougher scheme to prove. And again it's the cover up that causes the most problems.
Most Tesla owners are honest and generally of good character. They would likely prefer to deal with a company with similar integrity.
So if I can show you of a brand new custom order getting a discount (destination fee waived) you will take back everything you just said?
At least you didn't say its because he runs three companies... if he doesn't have enough time to run each one well... appoint someone else. Not unheard of.
To your point... he has time to read reddit articles pinged to his twitter by general public but not time to get reports of a solid month's worth of reports of discounted cars till 2 days before EOQ? Convenient to say the least.
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