Elon now under (yet another) investigation by SEC over false self driving claims

[helvio]

It is a bit difficult to make an analogy as we're talking about an optional add-on to a product. The product itself is fine, and is improving over time with updates. In fact, it's the best selling product of its kind in history. The optional add-on, however, is causing some issues. For some people it performs well, and for others it performs poorly. Some people feel duped by claims made by the company, and others feel they got exactly what they thought they'd get. Some people feel the add-on is ridiculously overpriced, and others find great value in it. Some claim they would never have purchased the product if it weren't for the optional add-on, and others couldn't care less about the add-on and are just excited about the product itself.

I can't think of an analogy that fits... But I'm curious how this will play out in court. Based on previous comments from others, and the most recent court case that was detailed on these forums, my guess is that Tesla will be forced to offer refunds for the optional add-on, or compensation for the cost of hardware upgrades. I would be surprised and dismayed if courts force Tesla to buy back entire vehicles for anyone who purchased the optional add-on. If courts find Tesla to be in the wrong, the punishment must be painful enough to teach the company a lesson, but not so painful as to irreparably harm the company, which damages other owners who didn't purchase the optional add-on, or those that did purchase and are not experiencing problems with their purchase.

I can speak for myself in saying that I enjoy my car, and the optional add-on, and am having a great experience so far with the ADAS features. I would be just as upset as those who feel cheated if those features were removed or degraded on my vehicle because of their court actions. And that anger would be aimed towards Tesla and those people should that be the outcome. I think courts understand this and will balance their approach to this issue.

For that specific case, I think a good analogy is Tesla cars and an add-on being the FSD package.

But if you abstract that to "not getting what you thought you'd get, because advertisement vs product", I believe I have a good analogy for you: Big Mac.

 

[mjwojtukiewicz]

For that specific case, I think a good analogy is Tesla cars and an add-on being the FSD package.

But if you abstract that to "not getting what you thought you'd get, because advertisement vs product", I believe I have a good analogy for you: Big Mac.

A good analogy would be a military contractor build an airplane/ship/whatever and it comes in late, way over budget, and has many problems. F-35 fighter jet,
in repairs 50% of the time. Does the contractor pay up the cost? No, you and I do

 

[ElectricEel]

You guys have a REALLY hard time with analogy, don't you?

it’s not our fault you made a “meh” analogy . I get your having fun a trolling which is the only reason i went along with it.

 

[helvio]

it’s not our fault you made a poor analogy .

I beg to differ. My analogy was so good it basically needed no words at all. I bet if I posted just the picture, it would be understood.

 

[AndrewZ]

I think there's already a lot of precedent for asserting this was false advertising. Other jurisdictions have already barred Tesla from even using the terminology they use in much of the US.

German court rules that Tesla misled consumers on Autopilot and Full Self Driving

Tesla mislead consumers on the abilities of its automated driving systems, a Munich court ruled on Tuesday.

www.cnbc.com

Previous lawsuits in the US have already been completed and settled, when you read something like this and draw parallels with what's unfolding now

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cand.310416.1.0.pdf

Verbiage etc has of course been different in this case, very carefully sculpted to toe a line between legality and just shady marketting, etc.


Tesla is a corporation like any other, this stuff will take years and will end up being a slap on the wrist in comparison to the current revenues coming in. The SEC and DOJ action might be something a bit different, we'll need to wait and see.

 

[eleison]

Maybe those that bought fsd and still have their cars, get their money back? Probably cheaper for tesla than retrofitting with new hardware.

I think there are approximately 250k FSD users. At an average of 6k per user, that's still under 2 billion dollars. Tesla has like 20 billion...

 

[Dewg]

Other jurisdictions have already barred Tesla from even using the terminology they use in much of the US.

Unfortunately, if you researched further you'd see German courts overturned that decision.

 

[AndrewZ]

Unfortunately, if you researched further you'd see German courts overturned that decision.

Well we have the Cali DMV now domestically, and they have all the super secret redacted information about FSD that is bestowed upon none of us

California DMV Accusation Against Tesla Inc., Vehicle Dealer | PDF | Discovery (Law) | Mail

One of two filings to the California Office of Administrative Hearings, dated July 28, 2022. In this formal accusation, the California DMV says Tesla engaged in deceptive marketing or advertising practices around its Autopilot and Full Self-Driving systems. The company's advanced driver...

www.scribd.com

 

[DrChaos]

That’s DOJ.
This is SEC.

I know…hard to keep track

SEC is useless, DOJ is serious.

 

[ThomasD]

It always looks better in the advertising pictures and videos

 

[TarmacSurfer]

SEC is useless, DOJ is serious.

SEC is useless, DOJ is serious.

These days the Department of Just-Us is pretty useless too. Unless you’re talking about having a roll with which to persecute political opponents. I’ll stop there.

Musk has defrauded people with his whole “FSD” claims. This is way past simply missing a delivery date - it’s obvious that they have no idea how to get to where they’ve promised to get their customers to, and do not have the resources to do it either.

 

[sfRonH]

I think everyone knew instantly

No, I did not

 

[helvio]

No, I did not

I guess I overestimated but still, close enough!