Elon on CBS This Morning regarding Model 3

[SpiceWare]

BTW at the end of the clip Gayle says more of Elon at 8 o'clock so not sure what else they will be airing.

They took a drive in a 3 with autopilot active (hands off at that...), discussed autopilot, the recent crash, and issues with the NHTSA and how Tesla didn't agree with having to wait a year to inform the public about the investigation results.

 

[SMAlset]

THIS! I have been saying this for a while. OTA updates is a huge differentiator that no other OEM can offer right now. Maybe some features or some minor updates can be done if you go to a dealership. But no other cars can get better over time like Tesla.

Sure, another OEM can build a car that can update OTA. But it would take huge investments of time and money for a company to set up that infrastructure that Tesla already has.

It's also going to be quite a while before other BEVs will have a fast charging solution that cover a range like what Tesla has invested in over the years. People who adopt EV technology want to know they can get from Point A to B and want to charge as fast as possible.

 

[McRat]

THIS! I have been saying this for a while. OTA updates is a huge differentiator that no other OEM can offer right now. Maybe some features or some minor updates can be done if you go to a dealership. But no other cars can get better over time like Tesla.

Sure, another OEM can build a car that can update OTA. But it would take huge investments of time and money for a company to set up that infrastructure that Tesla already has.

OTA updates for the cellular communications computer was first used in 2006? and is still used. OTA for safety related computers were done to retail cars in 2013. Then halted for unknown reasons. OTA hardware has been in cars for years, and finally infotainment flashes are being rolled out over 4G and cellular now.

There is apparently a reason. Because this scenario is closely mimicked by nearly all car companies.

Can they do OTA updates to all the computers in the car? Yes. Do they? No. How does the EPA know you're not pulling a Volkswagen on them? Sensing GPS location, then changing emissions or EV range related systems during surprise testing?

So there is no huge investment missing from the automakers to do flashes, they beat Tesla to the OTA update tech.

Nearly all GM cars/trucks had 2-way communications and the ability to issue commands to vehicles in 2004. Airbags deployed? They ask you if you are OK. No responses or a 'I need help' sends emergency assistance to your location. Unlock your car when you lost your keys. Emergency panic button. Read engine codes and history. But it would only reflash itself, not other computers on the bus.

Most cars will have OTA reflashing for the non-safety and emissions-related systems before the end of the year.

Note that other makes do not need frequent reflashing. Our 2002 has never had a factory reflash. I have reflashed it hundreds of times to alter the performance of the drivetrain, but GM never saw the need. I'm not sure if our 2006 needed one or none so far. Our 2013 needed 2. Our 2016's required 0 and 2 respectively. Our 2017 has needed 0.

How many reflashes would a 2006 Model S have required by this point in time? Or a 2013? Or a 2017?

What is wrong with this picture? An EV with no Carplay, OnStar, Android Auto, Rear seat entertainment, etc, has far fewer lines of code controlling it. Why so many updates? The powertrain should need zero. Normally those are tested and proven before sale, and the affect EPA filings.

 

[SomeJoe7777]

@McRat

Other manufacturers use of OTA updates pale in comparison to Tesla's. What little OTA they're doing is for minor bugfixes in the infotainment systems, they do very little to anything that's safety-related.

And not once has any other manufacturer's OTA update added a feature to their vehicle. Telsa is the only one who's OTA updates actually add features to the car post-sale.

One of the biggest reasons for this is that the dealerships have cried foul about the manufacturer's attempted use of OTA updates, because they say it violates the dealership-manufacturer agreement that the dealerships have exclusive rights to do maintenance and repair. The dealerships are yet another dinosaur of the old auto industry model that's standing in their way that Tesla had the forethought to eliminate.

Yes and no. They absolutely would be a profitable and healthy company if they had not been massively investing in infrastructure for future growth. Tesla could have easily stopped with the S/X and iterated on the premium luxury sedan instead of jumping off the cliff in mass production of Model 3/Gigafactory/Tesla Energy/Semi/etc.

^^ This. I have yet to understand the continous idiotic chant of "they're not profitable" from the anti-Tesla crowd. Day 1 of economics 101 teaches you that to grow a business, you sink your profits back into expansion and advancement. If you start a business and are moderately successful because you have intellectual property that other businesses don't have, you need to grow immediately. If you don't, you'll be bought or put out of business when the competitors catch up. The only way to grow is to take all of your profit and invest.

I swear up and down the next person I see that cries that Tesla isn't profitable I'm going to smack them across the face with a stack of $1 bills and laugh at the irony that they won't know why.

 

[McRat]

@McRat
...
One of the biggest reasons for this is that the dealerships have cried foul about the manufacturer's attempted use of OTA updates, because they say it violates the dealership-manufacturer agreement that the dealerships have exclusive rights to do maintenance and repair. The dealerships are yet another dinosaur of the old auto industry model that's standing in their way that Tesla had the forethought to eliminate.
...

That's the rumor. Since I own dealer tools purchased at dealers, and have access to the General Motors engineering database of flashes and Technical Service Bulletins, and the latest updated repair procedures in a step-by-step methodology, and I am not dealer, but have been working on and flashing digital cars since 2000, I find it hard to believe that dealerships have an exclusive right to do updates since there are literally tens of thousands of repair shops and private owners who reflash GM vehicles.

The dinosaur model was back when automakers could force you to buy their parts for repairs and maintenance or void your warranty. This was way before Tesla Motors time. In theory, Tesla is in violation of the changes in the law that forbid mfrs from dictating who can repair their cars, who can buy spares, and who can buy tools and manuals.

Tesla is in a unique position to sell a product that does not have all the advertised features that were paid for, with the promise that someday that feature will be available. The old school makers must not sell a car based on features it does not actually have.

If that's that future we are in for a bumpy ride.

There are advantages and disadvantages of Tesla's service model. There is a rumor that it's all upside with no drawbacks. Explain that to folk who purchased AP2 when it was released.

 

[Lem89]

I have not really observed him.

I have observed numerous C level executives during live meetings and haven't seen anyone act quite this way. Now to me, knowing nothing about the guy it looks a lot like someone making crap up on the fly, but as you say, to someone who has observed him a lot maybe this is normal.

Typically looking left indicates lying or "making crap up on the fly" while looking right indicates recalling from memory and experience as Musk does in this interview.

 

[30seconds]

I have not really observed him.

I have observed numerous C level executives during live meetings and haven't seen anyone act quite this way. Now to me, knowing nothing about the guy it looks a lot like someone making crap up on the fly, but as you say, to someone who has observed him a lot maybe this is normal.

You need to spend more time in Silicon Valley. Lots of people here like this.

 

[SomeJoe7777]

Typically looking left indicates lying or "making crap up on the fly" while looking right indicates recalling from memory and experience as Musk does in this interview.

Complete psuedoscience myth. FBI Law Enforcement Bulletin June 2011:

"Twenty-three out of 24 peer reviewed studies published in scientific journals reporting experiments on eye behavior as an indicator of lying have rejected this hypothesis. No scientific evidence exists to suggest that eye behavior or gaze aversion can gauge truthfulness reliably."

Good Lord, does anyone get educated anymore?

 

[drawfour]

I find it hard to believe that dealerships have an exclusive right to do updates since there are literally tens of thousands of repair shops and private owners who reflash GM vehicles.

He means "exclusive with respect to the manufacturers". His point is that the manufacturer, such as Toyota or GM, is not allowed, as per their agreements with the dealers, to have their own service centers, and that doing OTA updated could be akin to the manufacturer performing service. Nothing prevents a third-party from doing their own service, either. But only the manufacturers cannot.

 

[McRat]

He means "exclusive with respect to the manufacturers". His point is that the manufacturer, such as Toyota or GM, is not allowed, as per their agreements with the dealers, to have their own service centers, and that doing OTA updated could be akin to the manufacturer performing service. Nothing prevents a third-party from doing their own service, either. But only the manufacturers cannot.

They are too late by a decade to enforce that. It was happening in '06. HQ was reflashing the communications module remotely. Or a dealer could do it.

 

[insaneoctane]

How does the EPA know you're not pulling a Volkswagen on them? Sensing GPS location, then changing emissions or EV range related systems during surprise testing?
.

Why did you type that?! Well, I guess we know what VW will be working on next...

 

[shrspeedblade]

Did anybody else watch that interview and think: "Somebody needs to drop a really comfortable cot off at the factory for Elon!"

I'm serious, sleep deprivation is cumulative and doesn't do anybody any good!
I'm a mat-on-the-ground-backpacker-type, so any suggestions?

 

[kingleonidas]

I know what you are saying and I agree, but Elon's unique personality and stye is what makes him "Elon" and I wouldn't want him to be any other way.

I second that! I wouldn't want our Elon any other way!!

 

[mongo]

That's the rumor. Since I own dealer tools purchased at dealers, and have access to the General Motors engineering database of flashes and Technical Service Bulletins, and the latest updated repair procedures in a step-by-step methodology, and I am not dealer, but have been working on and flashing digital cars since 2000, I find it hard to believe that dealerships have an exclusive right to do updates since there are literally tens of thousands of repair shops and private owners who reflash GM vehicles.

It's not that dealership have exclusive ability. At least in Michigan, manufacturers cannot work on any cars other than ones they own /fleet. Independent shops cannot do warranty work.

445.1574 Prohibited conduct by manufacturer.
Sec. 14.
(1) A manufacturer shall not do any of the following:
(p) Authorize a motor vehicle service and repair facility to perform motor vehicle warranty repairs and recall work, unless the work meets any of the following:

(i) Is required for emergency service of a vehicle.
(ii) Is work performed at a service center owned or operated by a manufacturer on a manufacturer-owned vehicle.
(iii) Is work performed by employees of a fleet operator on its own vehicles.​

(q) Own a motor vehicle service and repair facility, except that a manufacturer may own a service and repair facility for the repair of manufacturer-owned vehicles.

 

[kingleonidas]

Thank you for the links to the youtube videos... I've been scouring the web trying to find the full aired special here in the Midwest USA. I appreciate the content although i'm finding it in peace meal. Does anyone have any more information on this episode?

 

[kingleonidas]

Dreamcase for Musk?

 

[kingleonidas]

Uh, I'm not sure how many times you've seen him speak, but this was actually better than usual. Typically there are longer pauses where he stares at the ceiling and seemingly rethinks his entire perspective on the universe for a few seconds before answering a question. Love the guy but his public speaking can be quite cringy at times.

Agreed. His brain moves way too fast for his mouth.

 

[shrspeedblade]

Dreamcase for Musk?

Something like this, but I doubt he wants to walk all the way out to the parking lot!

 

[kingleonidas]

Something like this, but I doubt he wants to walk all the way out to the parking lot!

I figured he would just drive inside

 

[morrisdl]

Dreamcase is perfect idea. The factory is full of car. Maybe his nap could be literally on the production line.

Thanks for everyone for posting the CBS clips...I would have never found them in order.