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Elon Puts His Foot In His Mouth Again

Jayson

Member
Mar 19, 2020
50
115
USA
Here's what our boy Elon had to say about the state-ordered shelter-in-place mandates many of us are now living under: “This is the time to think about the future, and also to ask, is it right to infringe upon people’s rights as what is happening right now?”

“I think the people are going to be very angry about this and are very angry. It’s like somebody should be, if somebody wants to stay in the house that’s great, they should be allowed to stay in the house and they should not be compelled to leave. But to say that they cannot leave their house, and they will be arrested if they do, this is fascist. This is not democratic. This is not freedom. Give people back their goddamn freedom.”

He later added: “So the expansion of the shelter in place or as frankly I would call it forcibly imprisoning people in their homes, against all their constitutional rights, but that’s my opinion, and breaking people’s freedoms in ways that are horrible and wrong, and not why people came to America or built this country. What the f—. Excuse me. It’s outrage, it’s an outrage. It will cause great harm not just to Tesla, but to many companies. And while Tesla will weather the storm there are many small companies that will not.”

There’s so much wrong there, I don’t know where to begin. First of all, the shelter-in-place orders in the San Francisco Bay area, where Tesla is located, do not say people cannot leave their homes. Rather, nonessential businesses are closed, certain public areas are closed, and large gatherings are banned.

As far as I know, there is no shelter-in-place order in America that says people cannot leave their homes. Where I live, we are allowed to leave for exercise and walking pets. As well as travel to essential businesses (the grocery store), or to take care of loved ones who need assistance. I believe we’re even allowed to drive for leisure.

Elon is also wrong when he implies shelter-in-place orders are unconstitutional. According to an op-ed published by a news outlet based just up the road from the Bay, The Sacramento Bee, the government has “broad power” to do what needs to be done during a public health crisis to stop a disease. The op-ed, written by a law professor, cites precedent in American history going back to shortly after the Revolutionary War. It also cites the Supreme Court, which has upheld compulsory vaccination and a state’s right to establish quarantines.

He’s also wrong on principle. I may have the right to do whatever I want within the bounds of the law, but I don’t have the right to hurt you in the process. So I don’t have the right to get you sick because I want to get my hair cut. Or because I want the Tesla I bought to get built so I can take delivery.

Finally, Elon doesn’t understand why we need the lockdowns in the first place. We need them because even though roughly 80 percent of coronavirus cases do not lead to hospitalizations, 20 percent do. And that’s enough that our healthcare system would be overwhelmed if we simply let the virus rip through the population. Which not only would lead to more deaths from COVID-19, but also lead to more deaths from other medical issues, since care wouldn’t be available.

Elon tried to back up his point by using data to show that California’s hospitals have plenty of capacity at the moment. But he’s actually accidentally making the opposing point – the hospitals have capacity because social distancing and shelter-in-place orders are slowing the spread of coronavirus. In short, shelter-in-place is doing exactly what it is supposed to do.

Also, we need to socially distance because this virus can be spread by people who don’t know they’re infected, whether they’re asymptomatic (infected but not showing any symptoms) or presymptomatic (infected, but not showing symptoms just yet). It’s hard to quash a virus when it’s not obvious who has it. More testing will help, but we’re not there yet. We stopped SARS in its tracks in part because we knew who had it (it was only contagious once symptoms appeared) and could isolate them from the rest of the population.

Remember, this is a disease that no one was immune to when it made the leap to humans. Even now that some folks have had it and recovered, we don’t know yet what level of immunity, if any, they have, and for how long. Oh, and it doesn’t just affect the elderly and those with underlying conditions. It has hospitalized and even killed perfectly healthy adults in their 20s, 30s, and 40s. Perhaps not as many younger, healthy people have been as hard hit, but enough have to show that just being young and in good shape does not make you immune.

This isn’t the flu. Not only is it literally not the flu – it’s a coronavirus, meaning it belongs to the same group of viruses that in some cases cause the common cold and in other cases cause severe diseases like SARS and MERS – it’s deadlier. Anywhere from a 1 percent to 5 percent case fatality rate. It’s killed more people than the flu does during most flu seasons in a shorter amount of time, and that’s WITH shelter-in-place orders in effect in much of the country.

Lest you think that last bit of reasoning is liberal claptrap, it comes from the editor of one of the most respected conservative partisan outlets, National Review. And may I remind the right-wing protest crowd that several of the governors who have been strong on shelter-in-place are Republicans (DeWine in Ohio, Hogan in Maryland, and Baker in Massachusetts)?

What this is all about for Elon is building Teslas. Fremont is shuttered since it’s not deemed essential. It’s located in a county that has extended shelter-in-place through the end of May.

I understand why Elon wants to get production restarted, so that his company can fulfill orders. But in a time of pandemic, when a highly contagious virus is moving through the population and we can’t even tell who’s infected, maybe Tesla can wait to make its deliveries?

No one likes the lockdowns. Do you think governors who ordered the lockdowns like losing the tax revenue?

But I get why this has to be done. And the thing that drives me crazy about the anti-lockdown crowd, like Elon, is that they’re falling for a false choice. It’s not about making a choice between lives and the economy. If we open back up too soon and a second wave of virus-related hospitalizations hit, no one is going to want to go shopping or to the movies or the bars anyway.

I suspect I do know why certain pols on the right want to re-open the country, science be damned. They’d rather not expand unemployment for folks put out of work by the pandemic. Ideology is driving the decisions, not science. If you don’t believe me, see Iowa – the governor there won’t give unemployment to anyone who quits their job because they’re afraid of contracting the virus.

If you want to complain about certain aspects of the orders, fine. Michigan’s governor may have gone a bit too far in that state. But the science is clear – if we don’t lockdown, the pandemic will be much worse. And the opinions of a raving CEO aren’t equal to scientific fact. Just because Elon can say that people are angry and they shouldn’t be ordered to stay home as much as possible doesn’t change the fact that every key scientist working on this says we need to shelter in place, at least for a while, to slow the spread of the virus until we can increase testing and tracing, and that we’ll still have to wear masks, socially distance, and perhaps avoid large crowds even after the lockdowns are lifted, unless we get an effective therapeutic drug/drug combination or a vaccine. It completely and totally sucks, but it’s reality.

Elon is so determined to get his cars built that he’s missing the bigger picture. We don’t need Teslas right now, we need testing. We need to be at home a little longer to help keep the hospitals at a manageable capacity.

Shelter-in-place orders aren’t “fascism”. They’re meant to keep us safe. And the more we lockdown now, the less we’ll have to lockdown later.

This is basic stuff. One needn’t be an epidemiologist or virologist to understand it. One needn’t have even done well in science and/or math growing up. One just needs to put aside one’s selfish desires and listen to the experts.

Elon is far too smart to be this stupid.
 

mswlogo

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2018
6,246
5,378
MA, NH
Good post.

The big problem is, that we need to shelter in place and social distance enough the it “feels” like it’s not needed. Like you pointed out that hospitals have excess capacity because it’s working.

It seems so odd I’ve minute he is getting masks and building ventilators and the next ranting about shelter in place.
 

Eclectic

Member
Nov 8, 2014
790
1,401
Montana
TL;DR and you're 100% wrong on many things, including the claim that the government has the power to suspend the exercise of rights in the manner they've done. The government does have broad emergency police powers, but they can't be exercised in an arbitrary or capricious manner and have to be as limited as possible to accomplish the goal of protecting public safety. There's a HUGE gap between something like requiring people to wear a mask in a nursing home and harassing religious folks who want to worship together because they aren't complying with an arbitrary guideline on distancing. But don't trust me, I'm just an experienced constitutional lawyer who has litigated cases before the US Supreme Court. If there ever is a scientific study that can show that sheltering in place actually has a material, positive effect on stopping the spread of a disease that is deadly, that would be different. If you are ok with giving up your liberty to appease hypochondriacs and power hungry fascists, that's your choice, but it doesn't make it constitutional.
 

Carlitos

Member
Apr 30, 2020
18
25
Miami
As bad as I want my new Model Y, I don't mind waiting if it's for the greater good. Patience is a virtue. Elon needs to take it easy with his comments. It only makes him look like a petulant out-of-touch billionaire who thinks he knows more than everyone else. Let's not forget about the "pedo-guy".
 

M3BlueGeorgia

Active Member
Dec 10, 2018
1,413
1,292
Atlanta, GA
I follow him on Twitter and its really embarrassing.

He seems to have fallen badly for some really weird conspiracy theory that COVID-19 deaths are being over-reported.
Despite some very hard evidence to the contrary.

Note: The likelihood is that COVID-19 deaths are massively under-reported.

Don't know how we can get him off that and back to cars, energy solutions and space travel.
 

cucubits

Active Member
May 17, 2019
1,724
1,758
TX
“I think the people are going to be very angry about this and are very angry. It’s like somebody should be, if somebody wants to stay in the house that’s great, they should be allowed to stay in the house and they should not be compelled to leave. But to say that they cannot leave their house, and they will be arrested if they do, this is fascist. This is not democratic. This is not freedom. Give people back their goddamn freedom.”

Wow, I did not expect this from him. Enough to say that now I think way less of Elon than I was before.

Came here with popcorn to see some knucklehead who again misunderstood something Elon said but sadly I was proven wrong.
 
Mar 11, 2010
4,586
1,515
Humboldt/Los Altos
OP, At least get you Elon quotes in correct order. If you write 'he later said' but he actually said it before the prior statement so it was not later.
Facism . he's correct though


pdobear.jpg
 
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tashtibet

Member
Jul 30, 2016
567
485
fort collins, colorado
say people/Tesla employees were locked down for 6 weeks and they followed all safety measures at home and now allowed to return to work, and work place have xtra layers of safety/precautions set up-wouldn't that be sufficient?
My company is deemed essential and we've taken xtra layers of precaution due to pandemic-we haven't shut down at all.
Elon has donated ventilators but he seemed furious of over reacting to the pandemic like that of toilet paper frenzy.
 

KRG21

Member
Mar 15, 2019
209
233
Boston
Elon Musk needs to open a factory in the Republic of Texas and move out of the Socialist State of California!

Lol good one...supporting an economy mostly funded by oil and fracking would be a nice look for Tesla. Also remember, our idiotic Government tries to handicap Tesla every way they can. Can't imagine wanting to reward them.

Texas thrives because of oil, gas, and lots of cheap land. NOT intelligent leadership. In 10-20 years when Texas cities are as overpopulated as California's, the education system woefully underfunded and unable to keep up, and the oil/gas industry in steady decline....I shudder to imagine what this state will look like.
 
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myMY808

Member
Feb 15, 2020
195
208
Hawaii
Lol good one...supporting an economy mostly funded by oil and fracking would be a nice look for Tesla. Also remember, our idiotic Government tries to handicap Tesla every way they can. Can't imagine wanting to reward them.

Texas thrives because of oil, gas, and lots of cheap land. NOT intelligent leadership.

Actually, I could see Tesla considering opening a factory there — using the factory investment as leverage for opening up the state for direct sales.
 

KRG21

Member
Mar 15, 2019
209
233
Boston
Actually, I could see Tesla considering opening a factory there — using the factory investment as leverage for opening up the state for direct sales.

Perhaps if a deal could be worked out, then yes. Auto dealers have a lot of influence here though.
 

KRG21

Member
Mar 15, 2019
209
233
Boston
My guess is China's numbers are not even close to factual and Russia has far less international travel than NYC and other American hot spots. Some European countries were hit harder than we were when you take population size into consideration. Does China have a vendetta against them too or were they randomly selected? I'm not aware. Conspiracies are fun though.
 

brur

Member
Nov 17, 2018
392
270
Prescott AZ
Good post.

The big problem is, that we need to shelter in place and social distance enough the it “feels” like it’s not needed. Like you pointed out that hospitals have excess capacity because it’s working.

It seems so odd I’ve minute he is getting masks and building ventilators and the next ranting about shelter in place.

If the hospitals are not nearly full there is no end to the crono19. The story that demanded we shut down was we needed to keep hospitals from overfilling.
The other story was that herd immunity was the only answer. Now we are instead aimed at not allowing anyone anywhere to get the flu. This is ridiculous, Herd immunity is the only way out. Waiting for a year to get out of this story line is not smart.
 

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