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Elon Puts His Foot In His Mouth Again

Dave EV

Active Member
Jun 23, 2009
1,909
1,585
San Diego
I'm in "that age group" likely more affected, but we can't shelter in place until this passes by, its here to stay. There is no quick cure, no quick fix.
There is an alternative to sheltering in place forever (not quite, but probably at least 6-12 more months which at least will feel like an eternity), but for whatever reason, we as counties, states and a country have completely failed to take the appropriate action.

People have been saying from the beginning that there is a relatively straight forward way to move forward and at least mostly return to "normal" with minimal risk. Heck, we've seen other countries do it (South Korea is a good example):

Screen, Test, Trace and Isolate

Instead what has happened is everyone went home for a month, then people started getting antsy and screaming "FREEDOM", and now we are slowly reopening things.

And yet it seems that at best some companies have finally gotten the screening part done (yet I suspect most are still weeks away from being ready), testing capacity is still no where it needs to be, tracing still needs a lot more manpower.

Instead of clamoring to reopen, we should be clamoring to get the resources in place to really knock this thing down to a manageable level until a vaccine is developed.
 

jonquiljo

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Sep 26, 2019
1,066
527
SF Bay Area - Marin
There is an alternative to sheltering in place forever (not quite, but probably at least 6-12 more months which at least will feel like an eternity), but for whatever reason, we as counties, states and a country have completely failed to take the appropriate action.

People have been saying from the beginning that there is a relatively straight forward way to move forward and at least mostly return to "normal" with minimal risk. Heck, we've seen other countries do it (South Korea is a good example):

Screen, Test, Trace and Isolate

Instead what has happened is everyone went home for a month, then people started getting antsy and screaming "FREEDOM", and now we are slowly reopening things.

And yet it seems that at best some companies have finally gotten the screening part done (yet I suspect most are still weeks away from being ready), testing capacity is still no where it needs to be, tracing still needs a lot more manpower.

Instead of clamoring to reopen, we should be clamoring to get the resources in place to really knock this thing down to a manageable level until a vaccine is developed.
Yes ... the US is not acting like a top-line first rate country these days. 80,000 dead in the US in the last 2+ months? We are all caught in the middle of a mess. I just wish we could dig ourselves out of it.
 

brur

Member
Nov 17, 2018
392
270
Prescott AZ
for my money, I think its too early to tell if we are going to get a quicker cure or its going to be a long, drawn out thing.

I'm willing to give this more time and I know we are learning more each week. the longer we can delay putting people at risk, the better.

yes, we all take a financial bath. no one wanted this or asked for this, but 'all things in time' and I'm in no hurry to jump to conclusions when we just don't have to, right this moment.

we should be yelling at our governments who are putting us in this no-win situation. they should not be forcing us to choose between making ends meet and tasking health risks. its them that the anger should be directed at, not the ones who want to continue the SIP order and give us all more time to better find a SET of solutions to this crisis.

that BS $1200 check (or whatever it ends up being) is a joke and people should be up in pitchforks-and-fires toward their leaders for trying to buy them off at such an insulting low non-livable amount.

(I bet there's still lotsa money for war and MIL. don't EVER suggest we touch that pile. no sir. holy cow and all)

I'm not qualified to talk to anyone about being isolated for a year. I grew up before videogames and never took the plunge.
For me, enjoying the time I have left is more interesting than video.
 

brur

Member
Nov 17, 2018
392
270
Prescott AZ
There is an alternative to sheltering in place forever (not quite, but probably at least 6-12 more months which at least will feel like an eternity), but for whatever reason, we as counties, states and a country have completely failed to take the appropriate action.

People have been saying from the beginning that there is a relatively straight forward way to move forward and at least mostly return to "normal" with minimal risk. Heck, we've seen other countries do it (South Korea is a good example):

Screen, Test, Trace and Isolate

Instead what has happened is everyone went home for a month, then people started getting antsy and screaming "FREEDOM", and now we are slowly reopening things.

And yet it seems that at best some companies have finally gotten the screening part done (yet I suspect most are still weeks away from being ready), testing capacity is still no where it needs to be, tracing still needs a lot more manpower.

Instead of clamoring to reopen, we should be clamoring to get the resources in place to really knock this thing down to a manageable level until a vaccine is developed.
300 million people here, test a third of them every day on their way to school/work/grocery store etc. every day. Understand there is a problem with reliability with the tests. Testing in the magnitude needed for a large country and virus shots is a hope. Personally, it's not likely to happen within a year, if then.
A test that is 95% correct finding the virus (negative or positive) is effectively 50/50 on an individual basis in populations that are thought to be lightly infected.
 

jonquiljo

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Sep 26, 2019
1,066
527
SF Bay Area - Marin
There is an alternative to sheltering in place forever (not quite, but probably at least 6-12 more months which at least will feel like an eternity), but for whatever reason, we as counties, states and a country have completely failed to take the appropriate action.

People have been saying from the beginning that there is a relatively straight forward way to move forward and at least mostly return to "normal" with minimal risk. Heck, we've seen other countries do it (South Korea is a good example):

Screen, Test, Trace and Isolate

Instead what has happened is everyone went home for a month, then people started getting antsy and screaming "FREEDOM", and now we are slowly reopening things.

And yet it seems that at best some companies have finally gotten the screening part done (yet I suspect most are still weeks away from being ready), testing capacity is still no where it needs to be, tracing still needs a lot more manpower.

Instead of clamoring to reopen, we should be clamoring to get the resources in place to really knock this thing down to a manageable level until a vaccine is developed.
You've got the right idea. What you describe can be done. We're just blowing it big time in the US.

Many people are caught up in the myths of COVID-19 --- let me give some facts:
1.) A mask is only "partial" protection. The masks people are wearing around the streets are really not much help. Even an N95 mask is only partial help.
2.) Many people in their 20's, 30, 40's, etc. can get COVID. It is not a freak occurrence- but rather happens quite a bit. A lot of these people end up in the hospital and the ICU and worse. Even younger people die of it, just not as often. Bad things do happen.
3.) We still don't really know if contracting COVID and recovering will make you immune. It will make some people immune, but possibly not all.
4.) It has been predicted that if we let COVID get totally out of control - that economically we would fare worse than with the various shutdowns we have had since mid-March. Starting up again now will be followed by a shutdown later in the year - perhaps sooner than you think.
5.) This first wave is not the last of it. We will likely have a 2nd wave in fall-Winter (2021) and perhaps another in 2022.
6.) A vaccine is the ultimate beginning of the end. I could take 1 1/2 to 2 years - perhaps longer. It is not easy to make effective vaccines for coronaviruses in general.
7.) (IMO) The best thing we can do is find good treatments for COVID. This could lower the death rate appreciably. Only one has been approved - and it is hard to make. The Federal government has the doses of this anti-viral (donated by the company that made them) -- 200,000 treatment courses, and hospitals are very annoyed that they are not getting what they need. This scenario is not new when it comes to the US government and COVID.

I wouldn't think less of Tesla because of Elon Musk's childish behavior. The Tesla shareholders and board cannot control him. Anyway, Tesla has such a superior product that whenever we get through this pandemic, Tesla will still be way on top.
 
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brianman

Burrito Founder
Nov 10, 2011
17,615
3,216
I just read the comments on Electrek for this story and it seems most people are on Elon's side. It was painful to read. They want him out of California now, despite the fact that the vast bulk of Teslas are made here with the support of the Nevada factory. They want him to pick up all the robots and sheet metal stamps and casting machines and move them to Texas, even though there isn't a place there to move them to, and the Gigafactory is 7x further away. They want him to sell his house and move everyone out of California for its treachery. They believe people are itching to move away from all our fancy beaches and mountains and culture. Move away from the aerospace industry and Silicon Valley. Even suggesting everyone should buy a shotgun and move to Texas. Wow. Culture-war much?

Not sure where this sudden support for Elon is coming from, considering you cannot buy a Tesla in Texas. Preppers really seem to love the bulletproof CyberTruck, perhaps that's it. Somewhere on the internet, a new connection is being made, that is getting Elon to say all these things about fascists. Cannot wait to read the report when it comes out, too bad it will be too late for Tesla by then.

We were so close to going back to normal, now this.
If it wasn't for, say, in-person interviews with Joe Rogan it might be easy to think it's a smear campaign including hijaaking of his Twitter accounts. There's really a bizarro Superman thing going on here. Is there a "sympathy crazy" for men with recently pregnant wives or something? Or is that not a thing.
 

brianman

Burrito Founder
Nov 10, 2011
17,615
3,216
are you implying that he should have gotton pregnant
No. If he (or his minions) could crack that nut, I'd rather they spend that medical mojo on creating a vaccine.

are you implying that she should be the one running the company?
No. I do wish J.B. could take the reigns until Elon can go 2 months straight without making a public statement (including tweets) that's offensive to at least 10% of the global population.


Furthermore, neither of them are really qualified to run anything if they intentionally choose a childn's name that has to be explained because it's constructed like a puzzle or encoded message. Sane people worry about picking a name that will have a good nickname that will minimize name-based bullying. This pair chooses a name that is worthy of a comment and footnote. Elon Musk - Wikipedia

When someone asks you your name, it shouldn't become a ploy / cry-for-help for parents that need attention.
 

linux-works

Active Member
Dec 23, 2019
2,190
4,190
mtn view, ca
I wouldn't think less of Tesla because of Elon Musk's childish behavior. The Tesla shareholders and board cannot control him. Anyway, Tesla has such a superior product that whenever we get through this pandemic, Tesla will still be way on top.

tesla is 'on top' because they were first (in their class); but quite a few are coming along and soon tesla will have real competition. until then, its their game, but this won't always be true. I'm thinking 5 years and less (likely much less) and we'll see some real other vendor choices.

tesla makes some good products and has some good ideas, but they are not really all that special. they had a good vision and an early head start but they are not lean anymore; and the small startups -are- lean. they are catching up, quickly.
 
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Darmie

Super Member
Supporting Member
Jan 13, 2016
2,113
1,413
Clear Lake TX.
Why don't we have a popcorn eating emoji on this forum? We need that for these topics.
popcorn.gif
 

TEG

Teslafanatic
Aug 20, 2006
21,967
9,194
tesla is 'on top' because they were first (in their class); but quite a few are coming along and soon tesla will have real competition. until then, its their game, but this won't always be true. I'm thinking 5 years and less (likely much less) and we'll see some real other vendor choices.
tesla makes some good products and has some good ideas, but they are not really all that special. they had a good vision and an early head start but they are not lean anymore; and the small startups -are- lean. they are catching up, quickly.

We have been hearing that about Tesla all along. That the "big guys" could jump in whenever they wanted and take over the high end EV market.
But they never seem to be able to pull it off.
Jaguar i-Pace, and Porsche Taycan come close I think, but still Tesla seems more compelling for most people.
Tesla isn't standing still.

One advantage for Tesla is that they are 100% committed to their product lines.
The old infernal combustion engine companies have internal in-fighting from the departments that do liquid fueled vehicles and don't want to change the status quo.
 
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linux-works

Active Member
Dec 23, 2019
2,190
4,190
mtn view, ca
big guys are slow, by nature.

its the new ones, the 'new teslas' that are all cooking, right now. some in total stealth mode, some with real hardware that is being developed.

lets be honest, tesla is still level-2 and its going to be that way for a long time to come.

its not the hardest thing in the world to do what tesla is doing now, and that's why there are so many startups around here, all working on the same kinds of things. people (employees) move around and the science gets developed further (all good things).

if tesla had level 5, I'd agree they were on top and going to stay on top for years; but they are really not even close to level-4, and the ones you don't hear about are closing in.

tesla has a head start; but otoh, newcomers don't have to repeat (and retain) teslas older ideas; they can jump right to the results that everyone has learned over the last decade or so.
 
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Twiglett

Single pedal driver
Oct 3, 2014
3,132
3,277
Austin
I'm not qualified to talk to anyone about being isolated for a year. I grew up before videogames and never took the plunge.
For me, enjoying the time I have left is more interesting than video.
very true
My son hasn't noticed the shelter in place because he hardly leaves the house and lives mostly online anyway :)
 
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TEG

Teslafanatic
Aug 20, 2006
21,967
9,194
big guys are slow, by nature.
its the new ones, the 'new teslas' that are all cooking, right now. some in total stealth mode, some with real hardware that is being developed.
lets be honest, tesla is still level-2 and its going to be that way for a long time to come.
its not the hardest thing in the world to do what tesla is doing now, and that's why there are so many startups around here, all working on the same kinds of things. people (employees) move around and the science gets developed further (all good things).
if tesla had level 5, I'd agree they were on top and going to stay on top for years; but they are really not even close to level-4, and the ones you don't hear about are closing in.
tesla has a head start; but otoh, newcomers don't have to repeat (and retain) teslas older ideas; they can jump right to the results that everyone has learned over the last decade or so.

Well if you are talking about the newcomers like Lucid & Faraday, which were created by ex-Tesla people trying to copy the business model and outdo them... I wish them luck and hope they are successful, but I think you underestimate all the obstacles and hurdles that Tesla has jumped through and over to get to the top like they have. From building a world class brand, to creating a global fast charging network, to getting people to open up their pocket books. There is a lot to get right to be a success. As has been stated many times, auto manufacturing is not an easy business to keep viable.

Personally, I think they could end up being niche players struggling to make a profit, but getting to the big leagues as a mainstream vehicle provider will take a lot lot more.
 
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linux-works

Active Member
Dec 23, 2019
2,190
4,190
mtn view, ca
Well if you are talking about the newcomers like Lucid & Faraday, which were created by ex-Tesla people trying to copy the business model and outdo them...

I've worked with people from faraday (that place is totally dead, last I heard; has anything changed in the last, say, 6mos or so?) and some of my friends left to go to lucid. lucid looks interesting, I'll say that. they are not vaporware; but I have not seen their product, myself.

there are a lot in this area. I just don't give tesla that much of an edge, when the population has been changing around so much (it really has). tesla does not retain people all that long; its known in the industry. then again, no one retains anyone for all that long in the bay area (uhm, lol?)
 

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