Elon says: Fleet feature usage tremendoulsy helps. Your thougts.

[Garlan Garner]

For some reason the updates in 2020.12.6 are causing some folks to be apprentice about using it because its not perfect. I understand that.

I know its not perfect, however the more we use these features it appears that the sooner they get tweaked and fixed and the faster Tesla rolls out new updates.

Elon Musk: Tesla's fleet training is orders of magnitude more than everyone else combined - Electrek


Is it a safety issue for folks?
Is it a learning curve issue for folks?
Is it a comfortability issue for folks?

What are your thoughts.

 

[destructure00]

It's a "I have nowhere to go" issue for me.

 

[1.21GW]

For some reason the updates in 2020.12.6 are causing some folks to be apprentice about using it because its not perfect. I understand that.

Apprentice = apprehensive?

I think Tesla should make it clearer to people when they are helping train the system in the early release. Some people love to help develop or improve the code, others don't want to risk anything.

or maybe they need a payment system for folks to take on very early Beta training

 

[Garlan Garner]

Apprentice = apprehensive?

I think Tesla should make it clearer to people when they are helping train the system in the early release. Some people love to help develop or improve the code, others don't want to risk anything.

or maybe they need a payment system for folks to take on very early Beta training

My mistake...yes apprehensive.

EVERYONE is helping the developers. Its has been rolled out massively now. I don't think a system is being trained.

 

[Joshan]

My mistake...yes apprehensive.

EVERYONE is helping the developers. Its has been rolled out massively now. I don't think a system is being trained.

However, Tesla is using it to train its Autopilot system to improve and evolve into something that will automatically navigate intersections.

Musk explained that drivers are helping “label” intersections and training its fleet learning system to make it better:

Essentially, the driver when driving and taking action is effectively labeling — labeling reality — as they drive and [make] them better and better. I think this is an advantage that no one else has, and we’re quite literally orders of magnitude more than everyone else combined.

 

[Knightshade]

For some reason the updates in 2020.12.6 are causing some folks to be apprentice about using it because its not perfect. I understand that.

I know its not perfect, however the more we use these features it appears that the sooner they get tweaked and fixed and the faster Tesla rolls out new updates.

Elon Musk: Tesla's fleet training is orders of magnitude more than everyone else combined - Electrek


Is it a safety issue for folks?
Is it a learning curve issue for folks?
Is it a comfortability issue for folks?

What are your thoughts.

In some cases they're still being told their SC has no HW3 computer to upgrade them to- which is required to use this feature.

I've seen posts from people in at least 3 or 4 different major cities report this in the last couple weeks for example- and other posts where this has been an ongoing lack-of-HW for months now.


If tesla's in that big a hurry to gather data they should fix their parts availability issues

 

[lotusland]

Tesla should start putting HW3 into every M3 that comes into the service center. That's the fastest way to up the data collection. Forget about who paid for FSD, just put the hardware into every car. They will cover the cost of the hardware in the first few thousand miles of free data they get.

 

[Adrien]

You don't have to actually use Autopilot features for the training set to get better. You will stop at a stop sign regardless if it's on or off. The data query is looking for non-standard problems and extrapolating what you do in those scenarios. So, drive however you want. If you want to impress some people turn it on, otherwise if you don't want to confirm at every intersection, leave it off. It makes no difference for the training data

 

[afadeev]

Tesla should start putting HW3 into every M3 that comes into the service center. That's the fastest way to up the data collection. Forget about who paid for FSD, just put the hardware into every car. They will cover the cost of the hardware in the first few thousand miles of free data they get.

That makes zero financial sense.
HW3 costs money, and yet more money to install and plumb the coolant hoses.
The only way return on HW3 investment (ROI) goes positive is if the customer pays for it, or the quality improvements in FSD from wider adoption are so great that significantly more people pay up for FSD. I see no direct correlation between incremental HW3 deployment and FSD take rate.

If you postulate that the pool of eager volunteers (aka suckers) willing to pay-up for FSD has already been drained, the only remain path for positive ROI is selling it a huge mark-up.
Aka - the status quo.

 

[Kirby64]

Tesla should start putting HW3 into every M3 that comes into the service center. That's the fastest way to up the data collection. Forget about who paid for FSD, just put the hardware into every car. They will cover the cost of the hardware in the first few thousand miles of free data they get.

You really think the cost of installing the hardware (i.e. $1k+) is really worth the extra data? Their entire fleet now is HW3 going forward, so HW2 stuff gets smaller and smaller.

 

[Garlan Garner]

You don't have to actually use Autopilot features for the training set to get better. You will stop at a stop sign regardless if it's on or off. The data query is looking for non-standard problems and extrapolating what you do in those scenarios. So, drive however you want. If you want to impress some people turn it on, otherwise if you don't want to confirm at every intersection, leave it off. It makes no difference for the training data

I'm mainly speaking of Tesla's software getting better.

I'm not thinking of Tesla trying to draw a map of every road everywhere.

 

[Garlan Garner]

That makes zero financial sense.
HW3 costs money, and yet more money to install and plumb the coolant hoses.
The only way return on HW3 investment (ROI) goes positive is if the customer pays for it, or the quality improvements in FSD from wider adoption are so great that significantly more people pay up for FSD. I see no direct correlation between incremental HW3 deployment and FSD take rate.

If you postulate that the pool of eager volunteers (aka suckers) willing to pay-up for FSD has already been drained, the only remain path for positive ROI is selling it a huge mark-up.
Aka - the status quo.

You have a point when you talk about FSD as it currently exists.

I believe MANY people will buy it when they see what it can finally do.

For example: I wouldn't mind buying a second standard Model 3 w/FSD if I knew it could go out and "uber" its own car note and insurance costs.


I really don't think people understand what is really on the horizon.

 

[LACALawyer]

In some cases they're still being told their SC has no HW3 computer to upgrade them to- which is required to use this feature.

I've seen posts from people in at least 3 or 4 different major cities report this in the last couple weeks for example- and other posts where this has been an ongoing lack-of-HW for months now.


If tesla's in that big a hurry to gather data they should fix their parts availability issues

We've also had a WORLDWIDE PANDEMIC for those same couple of months....

 

[Garlan Garner]

In some cases they're still being told their SC has no HW3 computer to upgrade them to- which is required to use this feature.

I've seen posts from people in at least 3 or 4 different major cities report this in the last couple weeks for example- and other posts where this has been an ongoing lack-of-HW for months now.


If tesla's in that big a hurry to gather data they should fix their parts availability issues

The parts issue is NOT worldwide. They are available in all SC's here in the Chicagoland area.

I'm not suggesting that they are in a hurry.....where did you read that?

 

[Knightshade]

The parts issue is NOT worldwide.

Where did you read my saying it was worldwide?

Because I very specifically did not say that.

We've also had a WORLDWIDE PANDEMIC for those same couple of months....

Well, no.

My first "we don't have any hardware" cancellation came over a month before things in the US were being shut down.

My second came only a couple of days after the shutdowns- which would've meant if they had ACTUALLY ORDERED THE HW it would've already been there, or at least been in transit, to the SC by the time the factory shut down.

 

[camalaio]

Sorry, what is this thread about exactly? What things does 2020.12.6 bring that people are apprehensive about? I feel as if I'm missing a huge amount of commonly known things right now.

I did a search, apparently TACC doesn't let you speed anymore? If true that's silly because my speedometer is 5% fast with the winter tires (which, yes, are the correct size). Also because of the flow of normal traffic, of course.

 

[Knightshade]

Sorry, what is this thread about exactly? What things does 2020.12.6 bring that people are apprehensive about? I feel as if I'm missing a huge amount of commonly known things right now.

Mainly the stoplight/stopsign stuff.

I did a search, apparently TACC doesn't let you speed anymore?

It does.

But if you enable the stoplight/stopsign thing and autosteer it won't let you set one in excess of the speed limit when on local roads.

If true that's silly because my speedometer is 5% fast with the winter tires (which, yes, are the correct size). Also because of the flow of normal traffic, of course.

...if they are the correct size why are they 5% off from non-winter tires of the same correct size?

 

[focher]

Tesla should start putting HW3 into every M3 that comes into the service center. That's the fastest way to up the data collection. Forget about who paid for FSD, just put the hardware into every car. They will cover the cost of the hardware in the first few thousand miles of free data they get.

They don’t need to do that as they already have exactly the same sensors in all Model 3s. The HW3 computer is only relevant to FSD functionality, so throwing a HW3 computer into a car that won’t have the functionality of FSD serves no purpose. You’re mixing sensor data with neural net training. Tesla already can take the data from HW2.5 cars and use it to train the neural net.

Musk’s point is that the way neural nets are trained is by throwing a lot of examples at them. The more examples - whether it’s an image that is labeled (tagged) as to what it is or the tapping of the stalk to tell the software that it’s ok to go through the upcoming intersection - the better the neural net can detect that same thing on its own. In this case, hitting that stalk is the training not the data collected.

For example, to teach a neural net how to identify a bike you start throwing tons of images with bikes in them at it. Over time, it learns what the characteristics are of a bike. Take a look at this TensorFlow demo where you teach the software what left/right/up/down is. The more samples, the better it is at detecting those commands. You can use fingers pointing in those directions or head nods.

 

[camalaio]

Mainly the stoplight/stopsign stuff.




It does.

But if you enable the stoplight/stopsign thing and autosteer it won't let you set one in excess of the speed limit when on local roads.





...if they are the correct size why are they 5% off from non-winter tires of the same correct size?

Ah ok that makes more sense. I thought the traffic light stuff was in 12.5 already and .6 brought something else.

As for the tires, no idea. The stock all season are off by about 2% which is fairly normal (they intentionally shy away from under-reporting speed). I suppose it's just down to brand differences. They're tight but not exact. It's something I've noticed with many sets of winters specifically, I have no clue why.

As for the thread topic, Canada only just got the visualization of traffic control stuff. If there's an option to respond to it, I missed it. If it was there, I wouldn't use it because the car clearly doesn't see the lights correctly (gray instead of a colour) at times, so it's likely more of a burden than a convenience.

 

[Mrcarcrazy]

I’ve been pleasantly surprised by the update. every new update makes me apprehensive...slightly...I don’t trust much of anything explicitly. When watching videos about it and seeing some of the “oops” moments I got a slight butthole picker going. But for my uses on my current 128 mile daily commute, it has been very good. I haven’t been scared by it once. Now I did have a daredevil opossum try to scare me, but that’s hardly the cars fault.