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Elon says that newer version will solely depend on camera but what about rain [using AP]

jkanters

New Member
May 11, 2021
2
3
Denmark
I agree with Elon that Camera vision is supreme to radar/lidar. However with the next version, whar about driving in rain. When it rains strongly, and my cameras cannot see much, I am happy about my front radar. Antthing about how the new system works when it rains?
 
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beastmode13

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Aug 6, 2018
918
1,169
NorCal, USA
How about sun? I'm in sunny California. At the right time of the day (1~2hrs after sunrise and before sunset) the sun is at the perfect angle that blinds camera. This have happened many times to the B-pillar cameras and front cameras.
 

sperkin

Member
Mar 23, 2017
935
1,043
Los Angeles, CA
How about sun? I'm in sunny California. At the right time of the day (1~2hrs after sunrise and before sunset) the sun is at the perfect angle that blinds camera. This have happened many times to the B-pillar cameras and front cameras.

I also had issues when leaving Las Vegas. B-Pillar cameras got dusty so NoAP became unavailable. NoAP also drops out in heavy rain. As for the sun, I'm surprised the front camera handles it will. Just a couple of times that I got the red hand of death warning and AP dropped due to the Sun.
 

stopcrazypp

Well-Known Member
Dec 8, 2007
10,998
6,114
Yes i'm sure Tesla will improve the Dynamic Range and resolution of the HW2 cameras through software /s
Don't think higher DR and resolution will help in this case. The bottleneck is the rainwater making things blurry. A high resolution image of a blurry windshield is still blurry. I think what Tesla really needs is a more reliable rain sensing method so the auto wipers can work better (this had been a long running complaint).
 

momo3605

Member
Mar 18, 2019
380
525
Bay Area
Don't think higher DR and resolution will help in this case. The bottleneck is the rainwater making things blurry. A high resolution image of a blurry windshield is still blurry. I think what Tesla really needs is a more reliable rain sensing method so the auto wipers can work better (this had been a long running complaint).

Yea I'd agree with that. It might help for sun, but regardless, i don't think it's fair to say because a human driver can drive in the rain, a car can too. When we're driving in the rain, our eyes aren't getting pelted by water droplets, we have a wiper system. Tesla HW cameras other than the front do not have wipers, and would likely have to deactivate anything NoA or above. if it can't see behind or what's in the adjacent lanes and blind spots
 

stopcrazypp

Well-Known Member
Dec 8, 2007
10,998
6,114
Yea I'd agree with that. It might help for sun, but regardless, i don't think it's fair to say because a human driver can drive in the rain, a car can too. When we're driving in the rain, our eyes aren't getting pelted by water droplets, we have a wiper system. Tesla HW cameras other than the front do not have wipers, and would likely have to deactivate anything NoA or above. if it can't see behind or what's in the adjacent lanes and blind spots
The side cams seem to work perfectly fine in heavy rain. Their position seems to be where the aerodynamics naturally remove water from them. Example here:
Tesla side cam captures speeding Mercedes in a near-miss during heavy rain

I believe only the rear cameras have had been reported to be an issue sometimes, but in terms of grime (a wipe before driving usually solves), not rain while driving.
 

momo3605

Member
Mar 18, 2019
380
525
Bay Area
The side cams seem to work perfectly fine in heavy rain. Their position seems to be where the aerodynamics naturally remove water from them. Example here:
Tesla side cam captures speeding Mercedes in a near-miss during heavy rain

I believe only the rear cameras have had been reported to be an issue sometimes, but in terms of grime (a wipe before driving usually solves), not rain while driving.

Not in my experience. In heavy rain or with bright sunlight, i've seen the side lanes disappear, and NoA revert to single lane TACC and lane keep assist. And for sure it's much easier to tell with rear view camera, with a little rain, you can barely use it as a backup camera
 
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Cheburashka

Active Member
Jan 29, 2018
2,537
3,709
Los Gatos, CA
How about sun? I'm in sunny California. At the right time of the day (1~2hrs after sunrise and before sunset) the sun is at the perfect angle that blinds camera. This have happened many times to the B-pillar cameras and front cameras.

Yea this happens all the time right before sunset. You get the red hands on wheel warning and AP is disabled entirely if you are driving in the direction where the sun is setting.

Robotaxi by end of 2020 tho.
 

stopcrazypp

Well-Known Member
Dec 8, 2007
10,998
6,114
Not in my experience. In heavy rain or with bright sunlight, i've seen the side lanes disappear, and NoA revert to single lane TACC and lane keep assist. And for sure it's much easier to tell with rear view camera, with a little rain, you can barely use it as a backup camera
That's their software algorithm's issue with detecting road lines in heavily rain (which can be fixed in software), not the cameras being obscured by water on them (which is what would require wipers as per your comments). The important thing is the roadway is visible and camera is not blurred in heavy rain (which it isn't from video linked).

As for the sun, the cameras Tesla use have an HDR mode (20 stops dynamic range). Tesla can detect cases where the sun is in direct view of the camera and turn on that HDR mode in that case. Currently for L2 currently however, they give up when coming up to these situations, but when they do L3+ they do have software solutions available even in the current hardware to address this.
 
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powertoold

Active Member
Oct 10, 2014
3,042
6,544
USA
So how come I lose NOA in moderate rain?

On the latest version? 2021.4.18?

I'm not sure if they've slowly increased the rain threshold lately. It seems I don't get as many "camera blinded" warnings nowadays.

Also, production NoA is probably more restricted in general because of liability reasons.
 
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diplomat33

Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
Aug 3, 2017
8,427
11,793
Terre Haute, IN USA
On the latest version? 2021.4.18?

I'm not sure if they've slowly increased the rain threshold lately. It seems I don't get as many "camera blinded" warnings nowadays.

Also, production NoA's is probably more restricted in general because of liability reasons.

I don't have 2021.4.18. I am on 2021.4.15.12. I think I was on 2021.4.15.8 or something when I was used NOA in the rain.

But that's good to know, if that behavior has been improved. Thanks
 
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momo3605

Member
Mar 18, 2019
380
525
Bay Area
I don't have 2021.4.18. I am on 2021.4.15.12. I think I was on 2021.4.15.8 or something when I was used NOA in the rain.

But that's good to know, if that behavior has been improved. Thanks

It's actually the other way around, supposedly the 2021.4.15.x is using the FSD beta code without any city streets or additional features activated. Per Green on Twitter. 2021.4.18 is old code. If you're seeing the same behavior on 15.x, guaranteed 18 would be the same if not worse.
 

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