What difference does it make?
Putting it directly in front of driver is something we are used to, but not necessary better.
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What difference does it make?
Putting it directly in front of driver is something we are used to, but not necessary better.
And that prevents lag and single point of failure how? (Since those seem to be the biggest reasons people say that the center 15" display can't be real.)
There is no legal requirement that even something as basic as the current speed be DIRECTLY in front of the driver. Placing that information on the center display as shown in the 3 reveal satisfies legal requirements and I think it will work just fine. But it is clear from Elon's tweets that the final version of the car will contain something much more exciting.
And as for a drawback of a single center display being that it is a "single point of failure": if the display goes down you can still drive the car just fine, and you can reboot it. In my 2+ years of owning my S I have had the center display freeze less than 5 times, I reboot it and all is well. Maybe twice I have had to reboot my drivers display, while driving, and it wasn't a problem.
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I don't know the space constraints, but I wonder if Tesla should consider using a 17" display placed in landscape mode if they are eliminating the front dash. The 15" just seemed a little cramped from the test drive videos I watched.
Old eyes (like mine) may have trouble picking out the speed and relevant numbers from the background traffic map or whatever. I assume they will have a flippable option of the background like the S (and X?).
Maybe they could have a sedate background option for one screen. Also the screens seemed offset in size which would be useful, can put smaller "neutral" screen behind the speed, etc to make them pop out. I guess they could also have different sizing for the main "dash" information.
Just some thoughts...
Old eyes (like mine) may have trouble picking out the speed and relevant numbers from the background traffic map or whatever. I assume they will have a flippable option of the background like the S (and X?).
Maybe they could have a sedate background option for one screen. Also the screens seemed offset in size which would be useful, can put smaller "neutral" screen behind the speed, etc to make them pop out. I guess they could also have different sizing for the main "dash" information.
Just some thoughts...
T-Will
Member
In one of the test drive videos, the driver said Tesla had gained experience in the use of layered glass in the Model X to block heat from the sun. But I wonder if we'll learn that they've somehow integrated a computer screen into the glass in the windshield. I guess that sounds too far-fetched, but who knows.
bryand
Member
...and then you get a stone chip in the windscreen and you have to replace the whole lot? I don't think so.
Having the speedo on the central display may be legally acceptable but it's very poor human factors design. Information that important should be displayed unambiguously, not against the background of a scrolling map.
Daliman
Member
Daliman
Member
Surely something much more complex than this is easily within the capacity of Tesla's engineering staff so long as it is within the price envelope. Frankly I can't believe what they are planning for this car for $35,000. It would go along way to allowing the driver, if one is actually required, control the vehicle and still have access to basic information and control the systems without distraction.
Navdy
Navdy
RyDad1
Member
I know the current display will probably change in one way or another before production starts, but I'm kind of partial to the portrait mode screen intergrated into the center of the dash like the S/X....It just seems like the space between the steering wheel and the M3 display is a bit tight...
Surely, it is your choice what to display on the screen.
If you don't like the map, turn it off.
FloridaJohn
Member
Does anyone have any comparison pictures of the dashboards in the Model S and X as they were initially revealed and then what they looked like at product release?
That may give us some hint on how much they can change.
That may give us some hint on how much they can change.
The reason for the landscape mode is for the screen to replace the instrument panel.
Landscape mode, and making the screen separate from the dash allow them to place the left upper edge of the screen much closer to the driver's line of sight.
If you use a portrait screen which is integrated into the central console, you would have to move your eyes a lot further from the road to see the info.
Someone posted the pictures earlier, may even be this thread....
Anyways, the dash shape and molding has changed, and the screen was integrated into the centre console instead of a floating design in the X prototype.
But the general design concept of LED instrument panel + large 17" portrait screen in the centre console did not change.
I just hope it's not gesture controls. Ugh - I am not a fan.
Playing around with BMW’s 7 Series gesture control user interface
Playing around with BMW’s 7 Series gesture control user interface
The entire LCD screen is an "expensive hardware solution" to dials/clusters/binnacle. I guarantee you that dials, buttons, and a standard OEM radio headunit is miles away cheaper than an LCD screen, with custom software.
And, of course, on the Mercedes S class / E class, I would say: if they build it without lagging and freezing issues, it's a fine idea. I don't care too much about redundancy. I'm talking about quality.
Of course they should fix the lag/frozen screen issue. But, you realize, this has been going on for years. I just searched the /r/teslamotors subreddit and picked information from owners or people who actually used the touchscreen.
Understand that all these posts are from $70,000 to $120,000 cars--this was not from any Model 3, haha:
Post #1:
"2015 85D here.. been noticing the dash screen becomes very sluggish whenever using navigation (when the left side shows directions). The energy bar is jumpy and sometimes the scroll wheels on the steering wheel are slow to respond. Once I cancel navigation, things are usually resolved; but once or twice, I had to reset the screen to get things back right. Has anyone else noticed this?"
"Join the club. Everyone will tell you to reboot; go ahead, it might seem to fix it for a few moments, but it will come back. The tegra3 chipset is not as powerful as it needs to be."
"I've seen the front dash get sluggish before - it looks weird to see the power/regen lines lag. It's only happened to me like 2x in the last year, each time I just do screen reset and it works fine after that."
Post #2:
"The software on the center dashboard is buggy. Luckily it can be updated but one time it was on a reset loop, overheated, and slightly warped the silver plastic bezel under the screen" (after 7k on his Model S P85)
Post #3:
"This is my biggest gripe with the Tesla. All people I've test ridden with have all noticed the unresponsive screens."
"It has been specifically noted the responsiveness has not been improved. (Also my primary gripe the the car.)"
Post #4
"I wish the touchscreen, and specifically the map app was snappier. I get that they probably bought a few thousand CPUs a few years ago, but I would expect a car that costs over $80K to feel smoother than an iPad from 2010."
Post #5 (video of the screen resetting while driving)
"I hate when this happens. It's unsafe and kills the AC. One of the problems with having a vehicle so dependent on software."
Post #6:
"I was recently at the store down here in Southern California, and I was sitting in the car and messing around with the touchscreen and found that the response time was a bit laggy. I'd scroll down and it would take a second or two for the screen to move with my finger."
"Yeah, there is a reason that a better processor is high on the list for asks in Tesla."
"I've given up on navigating with my car and just use my phone now the nav is so bad."
"Nav is really, really bad. It uses Google Maps, but not their navigation."
Post #7 (video at a show):
"Uuuuugh that lag on the touch screen ! oh my..."
"I don't think that had to do with loading time. That was just janky scrolling."
"It's because of the Nvidia processor."
Post #8:
"The middle touch screen has the slowest hardware known to man... - I kid, I kid.. It is laggy as hell though.."
"The thing I'm not kidding about is the atrocious Navigation software.. - Is it so hard to just use Google Maps Navigation?"
"He's not kidding. Center console is underpowered."
"...doing something graphically intensive like dragging the map around in full screen is not as fluid as a modern tablet."
Post #9:
"Shorter response/lag time on the touchscreen. It's good, but not perfect. I estimate at least 200ms latency."
Post #10:
"I have used both, and the touchscreen, especially the nav, is the most laggy piece of #### software I've ever seen in a car."
Post #11:
"..has there been any mention of the S getting upgraded processors so that the UI/browsing isn't as sluggish? Huge pet peeve of mine."
"All that being said, the S is atrocious when it comes to the current responsiveness of the touch screen so something will have to be done. But we all know that already."
"Tegra 3 is a good chipset. It was great in the ASUS tablets.... in 2010. But now you are asking it to perform complex navigation instructions, continually monitor GPS location in relation to chargers, monitor/control HVAC, process HD video from the rear camera, and then load album art from potentially 1000's of song media.
...
At this point, dicking with the touchscreen becomes a distraction to your main focus of driving. It's no longer an aesthetic problem, it's a safety problem."
"Reset helps in the extreme cases of locking up, but the lag is always there. It's definitely not buttery smooth like you'd expect a 100k car to be."
"Yeah it's a bit annoying when it's slow, but you just reset it and it speeds up again."
"I think the real problem is the software. Because Tesla is writing their own nav software (using Google's map data and Garmin displays) and their own media player they aren't as good at it as, for example, Waze or Google is. They aren't good at everything all of the time."
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If I'm honest, I don't trust their touchscreen implementation. Now, imagine all these issues with the speedometer, cruise control/autopilot notifications, gear/drive indicator, electrical malfunction notices, etc. People, by 2018, will have an exceedingly high standard of what a touchscreen responds like. The now old iPhone 5 had touch latency under 80ms.
I would trust Tesla, but this happened on the S for nearly all 3 years. New owners (look at the post dates) are still experiencing these issues. Tesla has never acknowledged these issues publicly.
People said the same thing about a massive touch-screen in a $35,000 car. Musk surprises...
The HUD is simpler. It will show critical information that isn't tied to whatever advanced system driving the main display.
Plenty of cars have had HUDs. I've linked the 2012 Prius video maybe a dozen times now on this forum.
Again, if it's laggy/freezes, it's crappy, too. If it's always fluid and responsive, fine.
You guys know what's always fluid and responsive in new 2016 cars? The speedometer. The drive indicator. The cruise control light.
No, they're about the main 17" touchscreen. I don't even think the IP in front of the driver is touch-enabled.
That's the issue: "make sure it works". This was a pretty crucial part: it's how you interact with the car besides the pedals and the wheel. It's been 3 years+ with only marginal improvements.
And it was a $70k+ car. That doesn't bode well at all.
The first post you linked to is clearly about the IP:
Post #1:
"2015 85D here.. been noticing the dash screen becomes very sluggish whenever using navigation (when the left side shows directions). The energy bar is jumpy and sometimes the scroll wheels on the steering wheel are slow to respond. Once I cancel navigation, things are usually resolved; but once or twice, I had to reset the screen to get things back right. Has anyone else noticed this?"
"I've seen the front dash get sluggish before - it looks weird to see the power/regen lines lag. It's only happened to me like 2x in the last year, each time I just do screen reset and it works fine after that."
I disagree. I am almost certain that one large touch screen is cheaper than all the buttons, instrument cluster, climate control module, radio/media control module etc.
I understand that, but that does not mean they have to put in a second screen or HUD.
You can still drive the car when the screen is frozen, You can stop the car at a safe place if you wish and wait until the screen reboots.
Elon is playing it safe for the Model 3, making sure all the parts are plentiful in supply and no few parts would hold up production like the Model X.
But many people wearing polarized sunglasses won't be able to see it during the day.
Yes, there is TI's DLP, but it is likely too expensive to use (no car has one yet).
