Elon tweets about assembly line built using scrap parts

[MP3Mike]

I do find it humorous that I'm going to pay north of 80k for the same car a friend paid 54k for except I'll have red paint on the brake calipers, an extra motor up front, and a spoiler... And that mine was built in a tent. I'm still buying it though.

Given that there are 3 Model 3 GA lines you don't know which your car will be built on. And we don't know what all you get as part of the performance upgrade. But you get larger wheels with better tires, larger brakes, better motors (both and back), a spoiler, aluminum pedal covers, and a software tune to get better performance. The suspension is likely different as well.

And who knows, since it has the same rated range the battery could have slightly more capacity to make up for the extra weight.

 

[DrivingTheFuture]

Given that there are 3 Model 3 GA lines you don't know which your car will be built on. And we don't know what all you get as part of the performance upgrade. But you get larger wheels with better tires, larger brakes, better motors (both and back), a spoiler, aluminum pedal covers, and a software tune to get better performance. The suspension is likely different as well.

And who knows, since it has the same rated range the battery could have slightly more capacity to make up for the extra weight.

The rear motor is the same, it is just tested longer at the factory. Also, where are you getting there will be larger brakes? And are you just assuming aluminum pedal covers?

 

[TT97]

The rear motor is the same, it is just tested longer at the factory. Also, where are you getting there will be larger brakes? And are you just assuming aluminum pedal covers?

Don't know about the brakes, but for the pedals:

Elon Musk on Twitter

"Talked with Tesla team. Looks like we can do the aluminum Model 3 pedal covers (slightly different from S). Turning on production for Model 3 Performance version."

 

[mongo]

The rear motor is the same, it is just tested longer at the factory. Also, where are you getting there will be larger brakes? And are you just assuming aluminum pedal covers?

All verifiable, motors are binned for higher performance.

Elon Musk
@elonmusk
Replying to @DMC_Ryan
Yes, Model 3 Performance will have red calipers & sport level brakes
9:17 PM · May 26, 2018

Replying to @DMC_Ryan
Talked with Tesla team. Looks like we can do the aluminum Model 3 pedal covers (slightly different from S). Turning on production for Model 3 Performance version.
1:24 PM · Jun 8, 2018

Replying to @DMC_Ryan
AC induction front & switched reluctance, partial permanent magnet rear. Silicon Carbide inverters in both. Performance drive units are lot sorted for highest sigma output & get double the burn-in.
9:41 PM · May 19, 2018

 

[Butane]

@buttershrimp is gonna be so pissed to hear this! He'll cancel really soon now!

 

[adaptabl]

For the OP:

Let's say I buy a shipment of 110 x 25' sq tubing, 1x1" .125 wall. When I'm done, there are pieces shorter than 25'. This is one definition of scrap.
Another is when you try to fabricate a part, and make a mistake. This is also scrap. You save the big ones.
Scrap can also be the pieces you deliberately cut off, like the center of a ring plate.
And when you cut the fat off your steak, this is scrap too. You feed this to your badger.

I did not define what scrap is just repeated what Elon said.

 

[Knightshade]

All verifiable, motors are binned for higher performance.

The fact the motors are lot sorted means the P is using literally the same motor parts as the non-P AWD.... it's just getting the highest scoring motors from each batch of those parts

Otherwise there'd be nothing to sort

(and we've no idea how much, if any, actual difference that would make... Intel famously used to sell chips capable of much higher performance stamped as lower performance simply because most everything in the bin scored better than the spec they needed parts for- once enough people found out they could get a much more expensive chip by buying the cheaper one and simply overclocking it like the faster one Intel started to lock down that ability much more harshly)


The real question will be if there's any other physical differences in say the contactors- if not then it's basically just a software unlock to turn a regular AWD into a P from a motor perspective.

 

[MP3Mike]

The fact the motors are lot sorted means the P is using literally the same motor parts as the non-P AWD.... it's just getting the highest scoring motors from each batch of those parts

It doesn't have to mean that. They could be making performance motors, and still sorting them so that the underperforming ones are used on normal cars. Which would mean that in some cases you got the same motor as a performance car, but if they didn't have enough underperforming ones they would use the smaller RWD motor.

We don't have enough information to know exactly what they are doing.

 

[mongo]

The fact the motors are lot sorted means the P is using literally the same motor parts as the non-P AWD.... it's just getting the highest scoring motors from each batch of those parts

Otherwise there'd be nothing to sort

(and we've no idea how much, if any, actual difference that would make... Intel famously used to sell chips capable of much higher performance stamped as lower performance simply because most everything in the bin scored better than the spec they needed parts for- once enough people found out they could get a much more expensive chip by buying the cheaper one and simply overclocking it like the faster one Intel started to lock down that ability much more harshly)


The real question will be if there's any other physical differences in say the contactors- if not then it's basically just a software unlock to turn a regular AWD into a P from a motor perspective.

Overclocked CPUs were not guaranteed at the higher performance, but the extended burn in ensures these are. Yeah,SW calibration will be the limiting factor for peak power, but efficiency will be the limiting factor for extended operation.

Silicon parts have variation in performance.
Reference part (not Tesla Specific)
IXGH36N60B3C1
Has saturation voltage of 1.5 typ to 1.8V max, So a typical part can be 17% more efficient that the worst. That means more power to the motor (not very much difference due to the 0.3V being over the full 300+ V pack). But more importantly, less heat in the drive unit allowing longer operation at higher power before thermal limits.
ICE equivalent of porting your intake manifold (ok presorting manifold for max flow).

 

[ohmman]

mod note: changed misleading title.

Also moved a number of posts out to snippiness.

 

[0ptions]

I did not define what scrap is just repeated what Elon said.

You did not repeat what he said. You added to it.

 

[eSpiritIV]

The title is correct. Elon said that assembly line was built with scrap. Also the model 3's are being built using scrap they had laying around.

Where is your quote where Elan said the cars would be built with scrap?

 

[ohmman]

Where is your quote where Elan said the cars would be built with scrap?

OP’s claim is analogous to saying that your Cheerios are cooked with nuts and bolts, because those exist in the factory. It’s just misleading phrasing.

 

[Derek Kessler]

The Space Shuttle Endeavour was assembled primarily from spare parts. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[Unpilot]

mod note: changed misleading title.

Also moved a number of posts out to snippiness.

Thanks for this.... most folks here know FUD when they see it.

 

[Trips]

That overly complicated conveyor system that they ripped out was the first thing I thought of when he said "scrap". It could have been terrible at moving vehicles and parts around like a roller coaster but great in a straight line.

 

[Knightshade]

Overclocked CPUs were not guaranteed at the higher performance, but the extended burn in ensures these are. Yeah,SW calibration will be the limiting factor for peak power, but efficiency will be the limiting factor for extended operation.

Guaranteed? nope.

But large numbers of them worked flawlessly for lots and lots of years, at large cost savings to the end user.

That's why Intel put so much work into locking down overclocking- it was costing them sales at the higher end.

(and why they now sell "officially unlocked" parts specifically for overclockers use, but still at a price premium to the "locked" versions of the same chip)

And unlike a CPU, where an overclocked one might be put under very heavy load for hours at a time, the motors in a tesla (outside the tiny tiny tiny % of folks who actually go on circle tracks) are going to be seeing heavy load, what, 5-10 seconds at a time maybe? So thermal concerns in street use seem... unfounded.

Thus I would (barring real HW differences like contactors) expect an AWD Model 3 to be able to accelerate exactly as quickly as a $23,000 more expensive P model in any normal/street use if you software unlock the non-P car based on the info we have today.

So I could certainly see Tesla offering a "P upgrade" option to AWD folks where just swap on bigger brakes, optionally swap bigger wheels, and then run a diagnostic on the motors and if they pass "burn in" a software unlock, which most likely will.

They could charge $20,000 for that (or 25k to not upset the P owners who paid 23k or whatever)- and it would cost them... basically the cost of the brakes and wheels.

 

[mongo]

Guaranteed? nope.

But large numbers of them worked flawlessly for lots and lots of years, at large cost savings to the end user.

That's why Intel put so much work into locking down overclocking- it was costing them sales at the higher end.

(and why they now sell "officially unlocked" parts specifically for overclockers use, but still at a price premium to the "locked" versions of the same chip)

And unlike a CPU, where an overclocked one might be put under very heavy load for hours at a time, the motors in a tesla (outside the tiny tiny tiny % of folks who actually go on circle tracks) are going to be seeing heavy load, what, 5-10 seconds at a time maybe? So thermal concerns in street use seem... unfounded.

Thus I would (barring real HW differences like contactors) expect an AWD Model 3 to be able to accelerate exactly as quickly as a $23,000 more expensive P model in any normal/street use if you software unlock the non-P car based on the info we have today.

So I could certainly see Tesla offering a "P upgrade" option to AWD folks where just swap on bigger brakes, optionally swap bigger wheels, and then run a diagnostic on the motors and if they pass "burn in" a software unlock, which most likely will.

They could charge $20,000 for that (or 25k to not upset the P owners who paid 23k or whatever)- and it would cost them... basically the cost of the brakes and wheels.

(CPU binning is an interesting discussion on its own, but no time )

There are a many IGBT part characteristics that are negatively impacted by the die temperature. The die has a very short time constant (millisecond level). So even a second at the higher current/ power level might be destructive or cause power reduction.

 

[dimsumx]

"Scrap" was probably sarcastic, considering that the lawsuit that they've brought up on the employee that admitted to sabotage includes:

"Tripp also vastly exaggerated the true amount and value of 'scrap' material that Tesla generated during the manufacturing process, and falsely claimed that Tesla was delayed in bringing new manufacturing equipment online."

- Source ​

 

[SageBrush]

The real question will be if there's any other physical differences in say the contactors- if not then it's basically just a software unlock to turn a regular AWD into a P from a motor perspective.

No. The motors were sorted by maximum output.