My car also brakes for shadows across the road.
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Elon tweets "pure vision" will solve phantom braking
- Thread starter diplomat33
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Well he said it is going to the public before they release FSD beta V9. So it sounds like radar is being disabled altogether.
The problem with phantom braking is there are so many sources of it that it's unlikely for a single update even this vision only one to fix it.
Things I've encountered:
Mild to medium Phantom for overhead signs
Rather abrupt slowing when I was passing a semi because the car kept getting confused about which lane the semi was in, and yet the semi was solidly in the lane next to me with nothing over.
The Traffic light response FSD code Getting tricked by lights or signs. This happened enough that I turned off this feature
NoA can also cause some serious braking issues when the map data doesn't match the road.
I think this is why people with FSD tend to report more issues with Phantom braking than people without it.
In my own experience phantom braking has diminished to a point where I think the most serious issue with AP these days is the slow response. Like for example a car will cross into my lane, and then over into the other lane and its not till the car is over in the other lane that my car even starts to brake. It's always a second or two late.
Until the latency is improved I really don't see much point in any of this.
The code for AP, EAP, and FSD cars is identical (unless you are one of the 71 city streets beta testers). Only your traffic light response example is tied to FSD, and it's hard to believe that the code is looking for traffic lights while on the highway (this seems in specific conflict to your belief that the vehicle uses maps when on NoA and will brake if the map and world don't match)
Much more likely it's just where you are, where you drive, etc.
Here in Norway we also have random braking related to erroneously mapped speed limits or missing speed limit signs (car never detect speed limit signs while in left lane) or detecting the wrong sign. This need to be fixed also. Not sure if it classifies as "phantom" but annoying and dangerous.
mtndrew1
Active Member
Heh. What does that even mean? That the production (public release) code gets this feature before the beta?
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Seems to imply they are removing the radar from the public AP (apart from V9). V9 will go out after that.
ps : Personally don't see them making such a massive change in production without going through some kind of beta testing first. So, might first roll out that change to EAP.
Yes, because the are doing totally different things.
"Production code" = Highway AP. They believe they have highway AP solved using only vision.
"Beta" is "city streets". This is all new stuff that none of us have. It's on a totally different cycle. It also reverts to "production" highway code when on the highway. There could be more cases they need to solve on city streets to release it as it's a more complex task.
And it's not a "feature." Done right, the customer has no idea the change occurred, except hopefully less "bugs" like phantom braking. I don't really care how Tesla senses the world, I care how well they drive through it. It's more part of the fundamental way AP senses, not how it behaves. So "production" AP is not getting a feature before the beta, it's just getting an architecture change.
shadows constantly kick my car out of AP. way more now than ever before. also the freeway driving is super swervy and crosses lane lines and gets pretty close to cars. Last update sucks. + takes forever for AP to become available
They should revamp the highway code too since the twisty road handling is terrible. I honestly thought it would be the same code since they all are ... driving.
Why is EAP more beta than any other version of AP they sold? EAP is just a mixed feature set of what is currently base AP with some of the features from FSD, sold in 2016-2019. It's the same code base.
Every single AP feature is currently beta (even traffic aware cruise control and auto wipers). So releasing it to "production" is actually releasing to beta. But all we have is Elon tweeting "We had to focus on removing radar & confirming safety. That release goes out next week to US production." If "US production" to him means "limited set of beta users" we're just even farther down the "What he means, not what he says" path than usual. His tweet is pretty direct and clear. Why are you assuming it means something besides what it says? Next week, a wide fleet of Teslas in the USA should get an update that removes radar from use, and that release has already been tested to be safe. Anything else is just another Elon mislead if he knows there is a large beta path in the way.
Alternate read: We're focusing on removing radar and confirming safety. In order to do that, we're removed radar, and we're rolling out to the US fleet next week. Fingers crossed it works and it ends up being safe!
You are confusing two different EAP TLAs. I think they were referring to the Early Access Program. Not the product that is no longer sold in NA.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
NoA definitely does brake when it thinks it needs to get over for an exit, and you have unconfirmed lane changes enabled. So if the maps aren't up to date you're going to be going "wtf are you doing?"
A good example of this is NoA through Tacoma on I5. The maps aren't up to date since its in perpetual construction so it gets terribly confused.
Another place I had this happen north bound on I5 a bit after Seattle when for some reason it didn't want to be in the passing lane even when it was clearly passing. It said something like getting over for navigation reasons. Obviously its going to need to brake to find a spot to get over into.
As to the traffic light response on the freeway I think Tesla tries to exclude it, but I've definitely seen it get fooled.
My listing was anything that could cause the car to hit the brakes.
I typically turn off NoA, and Traffic light response to minimize the chances.
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goRt
Active Member
How have VAG et al been able to get TACC working without phantom braking for the last 7+ years?
So Musky's either deployed a poor radar solution or his camera solution doesn't function.
Is this the same Musky who previously tweeted that they'd fixed phantom braking last year before 4d even in testing?
GlmnAlyAirCar
Active Member
Since the truck was perpendicular, radar returns on the mobileye system removed the truck as stationary noise since its rate of closure was the same as the car's speed. The mobileye system's camera was solely for lanekeeping. Nothing in the system was designed to address such a situation. The system you are criticizing (using vision to detect upcoming objects) simply didn't exist at the time.
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