Elon tweets: Solar Roof and solar panels will only be sold integrated with Powerwall

[dareed1]

I found this:

https://www.pge.com/pge_global/common/pdfs/customer-service/home-services/renovating-and-building/ElectricServiceDisconnect.pdf

It seems like with above ground single phase service (and if there's no lock on the meter) a licensed electrician do the meter removal. But the contractor cannot reconnect service; PG&E must actually put the meter back in. Presumably, they will only put it back in if the county/city inspector has signed a meter release.

So yeah, if someone's snipping that "easy to bypass lock" off, that's just them trying to save time and cutting corners. I still think it's stupid how Sunrun did things by the strict definition of "the book" and I still got my ass handed to me by PG&E workers. They accused Sunrun of doing all manner of shady crap and told me my install wasn't safe.

Yes, that's what the PDF files says. But actually, from what I could see at the time of the install, Tesla called PG&E, told them they were going to pull the meter, and then they pulled it. And later they plugged it back in. And it's an underground service. Of course PG&E knew what Tesla was doing; without the call PG&E would have rolled a truck to see what had happened to the meter.

Similarly, the "book" says that the City of Belmont would send a person to do the inspection. It was actually done by video conference which was partially conducted on the roof. Later we had a heat pump installed. Belmont inspector called me (not the contractor), set up a WhatsApp video call, and I went around showing the equipment stickers, the fused disconnect, etc. Mostly due to Covid, I guess. The point is that the book isn't necessarily followed.

BTW, apropos of another thread, no part of our solar installation has bladed disconnects. But the heat pump does.

 

[holeydonut]

Yes, that's what the PDF files says. But actually, from what I could see at the time of the install, Tesla called PG&E, told them they were going to pull the meter, and then they pulled it. And later they plugged it back in. And it's an underground service. Of course PG&E knew what Tesla was doing; without the call PG&E would have rolled a truck to see what had happened to the meter.

Similarly, the "book" says that the City of Belmont would send a person to do the inspection. It was actually done by video conference which was partially conducted on the roof. Later we had a heat pump installed. Belmont inspector called me (not the contractor), set up a WhatsApp video call, and I went around showing the equipment stickers, the fused disconnect, etc. Mostly due to Covid, I guess. The point is that the book isn't necessarily followed.

BTW, apropos of another thread, no part of our solar installation has bladed disconnects. But the heat pump does.

Yeah, so what I can't figure out is while my install was following the letter of the book as rigidly as possible; what motive went into PG&E people's heads to just stick it to me so hard repeatedly on my freaking install. It's stupid what they did to me that they seem to just glaze over for everyone else. Getting a scheduled service disconnect to replace a crummy 30 year old piece of crap Challenger main panel for a new panel shouldn't have taken 8 weeks.

I didn't need any change to the PG&E service, move anything, or shift anything. I just needed someone to pull the damn meter and install it back when the 3 hours of work was done.

I'm not buying the notion that some PG&E planner reads TMC and put my install on the sh!tlist back in September 2020. I didn't really rally on my notion that PG&E is the worst company in America (worse than EA and Comcast!) until after they just kept screwing with me over and over and over.

 

[wjgjr]

I'm most interested in the integrated soft starter capability. How exactly would they wire that? Additional home-runs to the motor, or A/C unit? Or have they found a way to do it on a more generic level?

That was what I was wondering - I guess the alternative would be that it is not really a soft start as far as the A/C is concerned but is actually designed to handle the inrush current, given the prior hints at increasing the maximum power draw per PW. As this seems like the big functional improvement listed, it will be interesting to get the details.

Having a Gateway 1 and a panel just for the solar and PW breakers, I do also like the cleaner look of the more integrated, matching equipment.

 

[Ampster]

I do not know. It is all speculative on a home we are making an offer on.

Our offer was accepted on the home so I put down $100 and ordered an 8kW system from Tesla. I did not have to include a Powerwall and have already been assigned a Sales Coordinator. The two biggest issues for me are if Tesla can convince PG&E to permit an 8kW system with no history and if I can get the main service panel changed out in time. I have an electrician friend and can get it done a lot more less expensively than it I got Tesla pricing.

An additional item is that the gas service pipe is less than 36 inches from the service panel. That is not a Tesla issue but one I will have to deal with when the service panel is changed out. It is a PG&E issue that @holeydonut had to deal with but seems to be inconsistently enforced.
I started a new thread to document this process so as to not further hijack this thread. Thanks for the encouragement to try to place an order for just solar panels.

Ordered Solar panel installation without Powerwall

This is a follow on to another thread where it was discussed after the announcement that Tesla was only taking Solar install orders if there was a Powerwall. I was successful in placing the order for an 8kW system without a Powerwall and go an automated response with an actual person. I will...

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[hayhayday]

Our offer was accepted on the home so I put down $100 and ordered an 8kW system from Tesla. I did not have to include a Powerwall and have already been assigned a Sales Coordinator. The two biggest issues for me are if Tesla can convince PG&E to permit an 8kW system with no history and if I can get the main service panel changed out in time. I have an electrician friend and can get it done a lot more less expensively than it I got Tesla pricing.

An additional item is that the gas service pipe is less than 36 inches from the service panel. That is not a Tesla issue but one I will have to deal with when the service panel is changed out. It is a PG&E issue that @holeydonut had to deal with but seems to be inconsistently enforced.
I started a new thread to document this process so as to not further hijack this thread. Thanks for the encouragement to try to place an order for just solar panels.

Ordered Solar panel installation without Powerwall

This is a follow on to another thread where it was discussed after the announcement that Tesla was only taking Solar install orders if there was a Powerwall. I was successful in placing the order for an 8kW system without a Powerwall and go an automated response with an actual person. I will...

teslamotorsclub.com

You should be able to use 3.32 kwh x sq feet instead of actual usage on a new home so if the new home is in the 3000sqft range you likely wont even need to have a planned annual increase amount.

 

[Ampster]

I will see how Tesla wants to approach that. The home is only 1700 sq ft and I would rather not be knocked down that far. Thanks for the input. That is a good fallback.

 

[charlesj]

You should be able to use 3.32 kwh x sq feet instead of actual usage on a new home so if the new home is in the 3000sqft range you likely wont even need to have a planned annual increase amount.

If I known this back in 2012 I could have asked for a 12kW system, 3X what I have. Maybe I can revisit with PG&E to expand my system?

 

[h2ofun]

If I known this back in 2012 I could have asked for a 12kW system, 3X what I have. Maybe I can revisit with PG&E to expand my system?

Yep, one can always ask, this is what I will be starting this week. Want to go from 15K to 30K Shall see if this can be done. Still under what I used 2 years ago

 

[n.one.one]

I'm not sure when it happened but when you order solar panels the Tesla standard system sizes have changed. I'm almost certain this is in preparation for the new larger 425W panels.

The previous and current standard system sizes in kW are:
4.08 is now 4.25
8.16 is now 8.50
12.24 is now 12.75
16.32 is now 17.00

When creating an order you used the be able to choose not to have any Powerwalls (0 was a specific choice). There is no longer a 0 it is a minimum of 1.

 

[jjrandorin]

I'm not sure when it happened but when you order solar panels the Tesla standard system sizes have changed. I'm almost certain this is in preparation for the new larger 420W panels that have not been 'officially' announced by Tesla.

The previous and current standard system sizes in kW are:
4.08 is now 4.25
8.16 is now 8.50
12.24 is now 12.75
16.32 is now 17.00

When creating an order you used the be able to choose not to have any Powerwalls (0 was a specific choice). There is no longer a 0 it is a minimum of 1.

Sometime in late april or so.

 

[Bitslizer]

I'm not sure when it happened but when you order solar panels the Tesla standard system sizes have changed. I'm almost certain this is in preparation for the new larger 420W panels that have not been 'officially' announced by Tesla.

The previous and current standard system sizes in kW are:
4.08 is now 4.25
8.16 is now 8.50
12.24 is now 12.75
16.32 is now 17.00

When creating an order you used the be able to choose not to have any Powerwalls (0 was a specific choice). There is no longer a 0 it is a minimum of 1.

Actually 425w panels. It's live, if you go to their solar panel page the spec list the 425w panels

 

[n.one.one]

Actually 425w panels. It's live, if you go to their solar panel page the spec list the 425w panels

Thanks...I messed that post up on multiple fronts.

 

[jjrandorin]

I believe the consensus was, the 425 panels were the same as the other (360w? dont remember the previous size) ones from a technological standpoint, just physically larger to get to that wattage.

 

[n.one.one]

I believe the consensus was, the 425 panels were the same as the other (360w? dont remember the previous size) ones from a technological standpoint, just physically larger to get to that wattage.

That's my understanding as well. The previous 340W panels are what my system design has now but it will be a while before they start actual installations in Georgia. I have limited roof space for panels and I'm hoping that even if the new panels aren't more productive per sq. ft. that they will fit better for my roof so that I can have more kW's.

 

[Bitslizer]

That's my understanding as well. The previous 340W panels are what my system design has now but it will be a while before they start actual installations in Georgia. I have limited roof space for panels and I'm hoping that even if the new panels aren't more productive per sq. ft. that they will fit better for my roof so that I can have more kW's.

On complex roof typically the 340w is better as they have a better chance of squeezing in more panels. On simple roof it's a wash and can go either way depending on the roof dimension

 

[pdx_m3s]

The 425W panels are just Hanwha’s grid-scale panels, but in all black. Same tech as the old panels. They are more for installation efficiency and cost savings.

 

[wjgjr]

On complex roof typically the 340w is better as they have a better chance of squeezing in more panels. On simple roof it's a wash and can go either way depending on the roof dimension

Since home/roof sizes are so variable, It really is just luck of the draw whether a given size just happens to perfectly align with what is needed, or is just over. I agree that as the panels get larger, that may lean more towards problems with fitting in complex roofs being a problem. On the other hand, the new panels are about 3% more efficient per area (presumably just due to having less border area) so some may benefit from that.

I wonder if at some point they will be making large enough panels that it makes sense to also stock half-sized ones to use to round out an installation. Probably the kind of complexity Tesla doesn't want to deal with, but as the panels grow, it does mean more potential for a lot of wasted space otherwise, depending on the roof.