Elon tweets: Solar Roof and solar panels will only be sold integrated with Powerwall

[holeydonut]

And if there is no gateway, then what will be used for the network and as a transfer switch?

I kind of hope Tesla has a Meter Socket, Gateway, Main Panel combo in the works. This way they can replace the California-standard main service panel with a single unit that also has a relay to disconnect the utility if the PoCo goes offline while keeping the downstream loads hot from the PV+ESS. I guess the inverter for the PV+ESS would still need to be housed somewhere else.

PS. if you're lurking these forums and are interested in buying a future house in California. Make sure the gas riser is more than 36 inches away (measured square) from the main panel . Tell your realtor to add that to the list of "must haves".

 

[BM3B]

I kind of hope Tesla has a Meter Socket, Gateway, Main Panel combo in the works. This way they can replace the California-standard main service panel with a single unit that also has a relay to disconnect the utility if the PoCo goes offline while keeping the downstream loads hot from the PV+ESS. I guess the inverter for the PV+ESS would still need to be housed somewhere else.

PS. if you're lurking these forums and are interested in buying a future house in California. Make sure the gas riser is more than 36 inches away (measured square) from the main panel . Tell your realtor to add that to the list of "must haves".

Or just eliminate gas from your property as I am doing, electric only! Going full hog, so excited

 

[holeydonut]

Or just eliminate gas from your property as I am doing, electric only! Going full hog, so excited

Nah, my house is roof-constrained and I can't get enough panels to really convert my hot water, furnace, and kitchen to gas. But yes, all electric is the dream for clean energy.

Well, except the kitchen. Electric cooktops suck from a taste and yum yum perspective. The environment can take a back seat for good flavor.

 

[BM3B]

Nah, my house is roof-constrained and I can't get enough panels to really convert my hot water, furnace, and kitchen to gas. But yes, all electric is the dream for clean energy.

Well, except the kitchen. Electric cooktops suck from a taste and yum yum perspective. The environment can take a back seat for good flavor.

I ran the math, I forecast consuming 25 MW per year total for all appliances, note that "Gas usage" is the kWh equivalent to the therms I consume today. I won't generate it all from the sun, just enough (about half) to not pull from grid during the peak hours of 4-8pm. I ordered a 12 kW 2PW system.

Weather averages
OverviewGraphs	kWh	kWh	kWh
MonthHigh / Low(°F)	Electricity Usage	Gas Usage	Total
January68° / 48°	425	2,000	2,425
February67° / 49°	425	2,000	2,425
March67° / 51°	425	2,000	2,425
April69° / 53°	425	2,000	2,425
May70° / 57°	425	2,000	2,425
June73° / 60°	600	2,000	2,600
July76° / 63°	600	800	1,400
August77° / 64°	600	800	1,400
September77° / 63°	700	800	1,500
October76° / 59°	600	800	1,400
November72° / 52°	425	2,000	2,425
December68° / 48°	425	2,000	2,425
Total	6075	19,200	25,275
			69 kWh/ day

 

[Ampster]

I kind of hope Tesla has a Meter Socket, Gateway, Main Panel combo in the works.........

That is not a likely scenerio because to change out the main panel where the meter is, would require a service call from the utility to remove power and reconnect power. It has to be corordinated with a building inspector. Logistically it is extremely inefficient with no gain over a transfer switch or gateway.

 

[holeydonut]

That is not a likely scenerio because to change out the main panel where the meter is, would require a service call from the utility to remove power and reconnect power. It has to be corordinated with a building inspector. Logistically it is extremely inefficient with no gain over a transfer switch or gateway.

I'm 99% sure you need to schedule a service disconnect if you do a line-side tap. I mean, unless you can remove the meter from its socket without snipping that PG&E tag.

 

[h2ofun]

I'm 99% sure you need to schedule a service disconnect if you do a line-side tap. I mean, unless you can remove the meter from its socket without snipping that PG&E tag.

we removed my meter no problemo.

 

[Ampster]

I'm 99% sure you need to schedule a service disconnect if you do a line-side tap. I mean, unless you can remove the meter from its socket without snipping that PG&E tag.

Yes and line side taps are more difficult in California where the breaker panel is integrated with the meter. In colder climates the breaker is usually inside in a separate panel. However because of the way the gateway is configured line side taps are not often needed because the gateway means the 120% busbar rule is not a constraint or a requirement. This is my recollection from another post where Wayne or someone explained the 120% rule. I could be wrong. But, that is why I do not think Tesla would design something that is as inefficient as a main panel changeout.
I have two examples of main service panel changes. One was delayed for months and the other took all day to coordinate PGE and Inspector. In the latter case I had pulled the permit and was the only one standing around instead of a $150 and hour electrician.

 

[holeydonut]

we removed my meter no problemo.

Huh, you just pulled on it and it popped off? Mine has a ring on it with a tamper resistant lock on it. So if it gets removed PG&E will know somebody messed with it.

 

[wwhitney]

I ran the math, I forecast consuming 25 MW per year total for all appliances, note that "Gas usage" is the kWh equivalent to the therms I consume today

But what equivalency did you use?

If you used 1 therm = 29.3 kWh, and then adjusted for the combustion efficiency of your gas appliances, then you are calculating the electricity required to replace the gas heat sources with electric resistance heating. But if you replaced them with heat pumps, then you can further divide that by the expected COP. Depending on the details, that may average out to around 3.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[h2ofun]

Huh, you just pulled on it and it popped off? Mine has a ring on it with a tamper resistant lock on it. So if it gets removed PG&E will know somebody messed with it.

we probably cut ring off

 

[holeydonut]

we probably cut ring off

Sounds like you never had that tamper resistant thing to begin wtih. I hope PG&E doesn't write you a demerit when the visit you for the PTO inspection and two SGIP inspections...

 

[slcasner]

But we have seen rumor that there will be a new Gateway/Inverter combination device. If true, that would likely mean the inverter is removed from the Powerwalls and the Solar/Powerwalls are DC coupled.

Anyone have an information source for this more definite than a rumor?

 

[Ampster]

Anyone have an information source for this more definite than a rumor?

I logged on to Tesla site to get quote on solar panels and the configuration included Powerwalls. There is no option to enter zero Powerwalls. The only choices were 1-10 Powerwalls.

Solar Panels | Tesla

Tesla solar makes it easy to produce clean, renewable energy for your home or business and to take control of your energy use. Learn more about solar.

www.tesla.com

It is more than a rumor or speculation. The only speculation is the Powerwall configuration and how the gateway/transfer switch will be integrated.

 

[willow_hiller]

Anyone have an information source for this more definite than a rumor?

I don't think we've even seen rumors. Just speculation.

As I said after the earnings call, at this rate we need to wait until Tesla updates their order page, or until the first installs with this line-side tap are implemented and documented.

 

[Ampster]

we need to wait until Tesla updates their order page

See my post above with a link to the order page, which has been updated. I could not configure panels without a Powerwall. It still had address info from a previous inquiry.

 

[pdx_m3s]

To achieve the "simplicity" that Elon wants (essentially putting the entire house behind the PW and Gateway), that means that one must install enough PWs to provide power for the entire main panel, right? That would mean there is a minimum amount of PWs one can configure for a particular order depending on their loads.

For us, we are 100% electric, with a 400 main panel (well, 2- 200amp panels). I'd assume we would probably need 4 PWs or so.

 

[willow_hiller]

See my post above with a link to the order page, which has been updated. I could not configure panels without a Powerwall. It still had address info from a previous inquiry.

Could you post a screenshot? I'm still seeing Powerwalls as optional in Maryland:

 

[MP3Mike]

See my post above with a link to the order page, which has been updated. I could not configure panels without a Powerwall. It still had address info from a previous inquiry.

I can still configure a solar system with no Powerwalls...

 

[Ampster]

Could you post a screenshot? I'm still seeing Powerwalls as optional in Maryland:
View attachment 657532

That is the same screenshot as mine. If you press ADD you will get the default of 4 in your case. Then the box says EDIT and the choices are 1-10. My point is there no longer seems to be a way to order without ordering at least one Powerwall.