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Elon & Twitter

AudubonB

One can NOT induce accuracy with precision!
Moderator
Mar 24, 2013
9,354
42,897
Speaking - absolutely uninvited by the rest of the Mod Squad - for all Moderators, I understand why it appears none desires to wade & shovel through this hot mess of a thread.

If there is a single one of you who is not ashamed of yourself, I need to have a long talk with your mother and all of your grand and great-grandmothers.

BUT - here’s the deal. Should I…..

1. Shut this thread?
2. Shut this thread immediately without awaiting responses from all of you as to whether I should shut this thread?
3. Shut this thread and ban each and every one who posted more than twice on this thread?

Decisions, decisions, decisions…..

Sure is splendid this isn’t Twitter.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: ElectricIAC
Speaking - absolutely uninvited by the rest of the Mod Squad - for all Moderators, I understand why it appears none desires to wade & shovel through this hot mess of a thread.

If there is a single one of you who is not ashamed of yourself, I need to have a long talk with your mother and all of your grand and great-grandmothers.

BUT - here’s the deal. Should I…..

1. Shut this thread?
2. Shut this thread immediately without awaiting responses from all of you as to whether I should shut this thread?
3. Shut this thread and ban each and every one who posted more than twice on this thread?

Decisions, decisions, decisions…..

Sure is splendid this isn’t Twitter.
I vote 1. or 2. this thread does jump several sharks per day.

if my involvement has been wrong I apologise, I was only trying to give the other side of the story.
 
The tweet is all sorts of can of worms Elon shouldn't open. Those are sensitive hills one shouldn't choose to die on. Probably realized it hence he deleted it real quick.

Yep, kicking an anthill when you're trying to open a advertising honey farm is just bad business even if the ants had it coming to them.

I am starting to agree with the piece written by the former Space-X employee who explained that both Space-X and Tesla had developed processes and support structures around Elon to harness his energy for the forces of good while restraining his worst impulses, and that none of that is in place over at Twitter so he's running off the rails. It very much matches what we're seeing with the pointless needless rants, tweets, poorly-thought-out decisions followed often by them being reversed just hours later...

This means that although I think Elon picking a CEO to run Tesla while he goes all-in on Twitter is the more likely scenario it would be healthier for Elon to have the reverse happen.
 
Some one needs to refer this to Elon, it shouldn't be allowed.

As I stated above a simple phrase based filter will not work here.

My suggestion would be to add a report button, and reported Tweets should be hidden until a mod can look at it.

A reporting system needs human staff to read and act upon said reports....
 

wdolson

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Jul 24, 2015
9,312
20,062
Clark Co, WA
If you are interested in getting musk removed as CEO we have a new comm

LMAO. User counts mean *sugar* when you are public company. It needs revenue and profit.

Things aren't looking good in that area.
Ar least the more tesla stock must sells to fund Twitter the less control he will have of Tesla

The entire post is on Blind which requires an account to see. Here is the entire post, it includes why they killed their Twitter account

"I’ve seen a lot of technical and ideological takes on Elon Twitter but wanted to share the marketing perspective. For background I’m a director at a medium sized b2b tech company (not in finserv anymore) running a team that deploys about $80M in ad spend/year. Twitter was 8-10% of our media mix and we have run cost per engagement (ie download a white paper, register for an event) campaigns successfully since 2016.

I had my team keep our campaigns live for 2 weeks post-takeover on the bet that efficiency would improve with fewer advertisers and the risks were managed and probably overblown. I was wrong and I think the things we saw in these last 2 weeks means many more advertisers will bail on the platform in the coming weeks (for non-ideological or virtue signaling reasons):
- Performance fell significantly. CPMs didn’t drop but our engagement went way down. Maybe it’s a shift in users on the platform, maybe it’s ad serving related.
- Serious brand safety issues. Our organic social and CS teams got dozens of screenshots of our ads next to awful content. Replies to our posts with hardcore antisemitism and adult spam remained up for days even when flagged.
- Our entire account team turned over multiple times in 2 weeks. We had multiple people (AE, AM, analyst, creative specialist) supporting our account and they all vanished without so much as an email. We finally got an email with a name for an AM last week but they quit and we don’t have a new one yet.
- Ads UI is very buggy and login with SSO and 2FA broken. One of my campaign managers logged in last week and found all our paused creatives from the past 6 years had been reactivated. Campaign changes don’t save. These things cost us real money.

$375K
12 YOE"

I came across Blind last week. It appears to be a message board for people in Silicon Valley mostly, though there is some tech industry wide contribution too. There has been discussion lately about how Twitter has gone from one of the nicer places to work in Silicon Valley to a hell hole.
 

Buckminster

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2018
5,177
27,908
UK
Speaking - absolutely uninvited by the rest of the Mod Squad - for all Moderators, I understand why it appears none desires to wade & shovel through this hot mess of a thread.

If there is a single one of you who is not ashamed of yourself, I need to have a long talk with your mother and all of your grand and great-grandmothers.

BUT - here’s the deal. Should I…..

1. Shut this thread?
2. Shut this thread immediately without awaiting responses from all of you as to whether I should shut this thread?
3. Shut this thread and ban each and every one who posted more than twice on this thread?

Decisions, decisions, decisions…..

Sure is splendid this isn’t Twitter.
Just ban the guy that created the thread. Problem solved.
 

Dave EV

Active Member
Jun 23, 2009
2,467
3,218
Earth

I was an intern at SpaceX years ago, back it when it was a much smaller company — after Elon got hair plugs, but before his cult of personality was in full swing. I have some insight to offer here.
Back when I was at SpaceX, Elon was basically a child king. He was an important figurehead who provided the company with the money, power, and PR, but he didn’t have the knowledge or (frankly) maturity to handle day-to-day decision making and everyone knew that. He was surrounded by people whose job was, essentially, to manipulate him into making good decisions.
Managing Elon was a huge part of the company culture. Even I, as a lowly intern, would hear people talking about it openly in meetings. People knew how to present ideas in a way that would resonate with him, they knew how to creatively reinterpret (or ignore) his many insane demands, and they even knew how to “stage manage” parts of the physical office space so that it would appeal to Elon.
The funniest example of “stage management” I can remember is this dude on the IT security team. He had a script running in a terminal on one of his monitors that would output random garbage, Matrix-style, so that it always looked like he was doing Important Computer Things to anyone who walked by his desk. Second funniest was all the people I saw playing WoW at their desks after ~5pm, who did it in the office just to give the appearance that they were working late.
People were willing to do that at SpaceX because Elon was giving them the money (and hype) to get into outer space, a mission people cared deeply about. The company also grew with and around Elon. There were layers of management between individual employees and Elon, and those managers were experienced managers of Elon. Again, I cannot stress enough how much of the company culture was oriented around managing this one guy.
Twitter has neither of those things going for it. There is no company culture or internal structure around the problem of managing Elon Musk, and I think for the first time we’re seeing what happens when people actually take that man seriously and at face value. Worse, they’re doing this little experiment after this man has had decades of success at companies that dedicate significant resources to protecting themselves from him, and he’s too narcissistic to realize it.
This post is long so I’ll leave you with my favorite Elon story. One day at work, I got an all hands email telling me that it was Elon’s birthday and there was going to be a mandatory surprise party for him in the cafeteria. Presumably Elon also got this email, but whatever. We all marched down into the cafeteria, dimmed the lights, and waited. Elon was led out by his secretary (who he hadn’t fired yet) and made a big show of being fake surprised and touched that we were there. Then they wheeled out the cake.
OK, so, I want you to imagine the biggest penis cake you’ve ever seen. Like the king of novelty sex cakes. Only it’s frosted white, and the balls have been frosted to look like fire and smoke. This was Elon’s birthday “rocket” cake.
For as long as I live, I will never forget the look on everyone’s face — in that dark room of mostly-male engineers — when he made a wish and cut into the tip.
I've got no idea how trustworthy that post is, but it sure makes a lot of sense now, in hindsight. It does really make one wonder...

I’ve no idea who these people are. But should that tweet be allowed ?

IMO any kind of tweet which suggests that physical violence, directly or indirectly, is a desirable, sensible or warranted, should not be allowed.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ZenRockGarden

Dave EV

Active Member
Jun 23, 2009
2,467
3,218
Earth
Speaking - absolutely uninvited by the rest of the Mod Squad - for all Moderators, I understand why it appears none desires to wade & shovel through this hot mess of a thread.

If there is a single one of you who is not ashamed of yourself, I need to have a long talk with your mother and all of your grand and great-grandmothers.

BUT - here’s the deal. Should I…..

1. Shut this thread?
2. Shut this thread immediately without awaiting responses from all of you as to whether I should shut this thread?
3. Shut this thread and ban each and every one who posted more than twice on this thread?

Decisions, decisions, decisions…..

Sure is splendid this isn’t Twitter.
Honestly, this is one of the most entertaining threads on TMC, and it does keep a lot of the nonsense contained to a single thread.

As I've mentioned before, it's just about impossible to separate Tesla, Elon, $TSLA and politics these days.
 
Speaking - absolutely uninvited by the rest of the Mod Squad - for all Moderators, I understand why it appears none desires to wade & shovel through this hot mess of a thread.

If there is a single one of you who is not ashamed of yourself, I need to have a long talk with your mother and all of your grand and great-grandmothers.

BUT - here’s the deal. Should I…..

1. Shut this thread?
2. Shut this thread immediately without awaiting responses from all of you as to whether I should shut this thread?
3. Shut this thread and ban each and every one who posted more than twice on this thread?

Decisions, decisions, decisions…..

Sure is splendid this isn’t Twitter.
Twitter, exactly, you took the words right out of my mouth.
1) Kindly shut this Elon seance. Thanks in advance! 😵‍💫
 
  • Funny
Reactions: ElectricIAC
There is always a chance that a cleverly worded threat or piece of hate speech could evade simple word based filters.
A chance? You think?

Recognizing hate speech is an extremely difficult problem. Elon's claims about the reduction in hate speech are probably nonsense. He can claim with possible correctness that they've reduced the hate speech they recognize. But that means very little without knowing a lot more about how they recognize it.

To be clear, people responsible for hate speech are capable of learning how to evade quick detection. But perhaps there are AI techniques that can be deployed. We won't know much for quite a while. And I doubt Elon will report anything that casts a bad light on their progress, just happy talk about reductions without data.
 

Bouba

Active Member
Sep 23, 2021
1,455
1,374
France
I’m not sure why Elon is receiving so much criticism for the way he runs Twitter... I suspect that he feels right at home at Twitter...it is a software company. Tesla is a software company on wheels and Space X is a software company with tail fins....but Twitter is pure software.. and if anyone knows software and the people who write software it is him
 

aubreymcfato

Active Member
Supporting Member
Sep 16, 2016
1,333
11,644
Italy
It's off limits because people are not capable of discussing it honestly or rationally. It's fueled by too much tribalism and emotions.
This, and thinking you can discuss honestly and rationally on Twitter with 240 characters is totally nuts.
It's Musk who decided to cite the Brown case linking that to the Tshirt.
If I'm correct, he didn't say a racist thing in the past (he even said he didn't do military in South Africa because it meant spendind your time worsening the life of black people, or something along these lines).
Now he decided to jump on a half-assed critique of BLM, *out of nowhere*.
Good luck with that.
 

aubreymcfato

Active Member
Supporting Member
Sep 16, 2016
1,333
11,644
Italy
It's not out of the blue. Those shirts were made because of the Ferguson incident. He was explaining how social warrior woke mobs went to the streets based on a lie. His point is truth no longer matters once you go woke..coming from an earlier tweet he had.
FFS.
This is not the point.
This view of the what "truth" is is the point: it's way too simplicistic, and it's dangerous. This is Musk's view of the world in true and false.

What if the single Michael Brown incident had some false information? The fact remains he was unarmed and killed.

But let's assume he was violent and dangerous. Does this change the fact that there are hundreds or thousands of act of violence from the police to black people? Does it change the systemic racism, racial profiling?
Does it change that the entire history of United states of America is based on genocide and slavery, and we exited that era only recently? With many legacy problems and ripples? You don't erase that view of the world easily. Black people didn't go to schools a few decades ago. Musk lived his youth in apartheid South Africa, he knows.
You can't cancel history, because it affects the present. This are facts too, if you are interested in facts.

What I'm discussing here is not politics, or the fact that BLM is all good, and police is all bad:
I want to discuss epistemology.
When Musk is outside is deterministic realm of engineering, he's very often stupid (like we all are) but he still thinks that he's a master (some of us are more humble than that). And he has great power and tremendous reach.

That Ferguson tweet is stupid not because it says a single, false thing, but because it's a product of a false mental framework.
 

Singuy

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2018
7,658
74,014
US
FFS.
This is not the point.
This view of the what "truth" is is the point: it's way too simplicistic, and it's dangerous. This is Musk's view of the world in true and false.

What if the single Michael Brown incident had some false information? The fact remains he was unarmed and killed.

But let's assume he was violent and dangerous. Does this change the fact that there are hundreds or thousands of act of violence from the police to black people? Does it change the systemic racism, racial profiling?
Does it change that the entire history of United states of America is based on genocide and slavery, and we exited that era only recently? With many legacy problems and ripples? You don't erase that view of the world easily. Black people didn't go to schools a few decades ago. Musk lived his youth in apartheid South Africa, he knows.
You can't cancel history, because it affects the present. This are facts too, if you are interested in facts.

What I'm discussing here is not politics, or the fact that BLM is all good, and police is all bad:
I want to discuss epistemology.
When Musk is outside is deterministic realm of engineering, he's very often stupid (like we all are) but he still thinks that he's a master (some of us are more humble than that). And he has great power and tremendous reach.

That Ferguson tweet is stupid not because it says a single, false thing, but because it's a product of a false mental framework.
You can't deny that it's because people having preconceived notion about this country's history and knowing systemic racism exist that caused people to assume too quickly of what happened or even making up stories of what happened to fit that narrative. This is one of the incident where the police acted in self defense because according to the report Brown was dangerous but the people was upset anyways due to all the historical stuff you mentioned.

So now it's a matter of, how can we reduce racial profiling and systemic racism within law enforcement while also making sure they are protected and can do their job? The court of public opinion certainly doesn't help solve this problem and is likely making it worst by adding noise.

If someone is physical with you and tries to take your weapon is not dangerous, then to what degree is? Should the police worry about riots, protests, his job, and adding gas to the flame of systemic racism while he is being attacked by someone black and unarmed?
 
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A chance? You think?

Recognizing hate speech is an extremely difficult problem. Elon's claims about the reduction in hate speech are probably nonsense. He can claim with possible correctness that they've reduced the hate speech they recognize. But that means very little without knowing a lot more about how they recognize it.

To be clear, people responsible for hate speech are capable of learning how to evade quick detection. But perhaps there are AI techniques that can be deployed. We won't know much for quite a while. And I doubt Elon will report anything that casts a bad light on their progress, just happy talk about reductions without data.
The problem is that 'hate speech' has no objective standard and is open to interpretation but for some more obvious examples, such as racial epithets.

The religious ideologue tends to be offended by critics of religious claims (or non-believers), but that doesn't make the criticism or non-belief any less valid, nor does suppression of critical speech improve the claims in question. Falsifying truth-claims, ideological or not, is not hate speech. In fact, this is the foundation of the scientific method. No idea is sacrosanct, be it religious or political, and being offended doesn't 'hate speech' make.

The same holds true for tenuous ideological positions which, despite being popular, are still lacking foundation and vulnerable to even light criticism. This is why so many ideologues (religious and political) suppress critical speech, because they cannot actually support their ideology on the merits. The more fragile the ideology, the more vicious the attacks and suppression from its adherents.

What happened to religious ideology once we had the Internet? Ideological wars broke out (much like this thread) and religious participation plummeted in the following years. The religiously unaffiliated (the 'Nones') are now a huge minority, totaling about 30% of the U.S. Population. (Pew Research).

The same will happen to Leftist ideology if free-inquiry is left to its own devices on a platform that isn't controlled by the Left. The same has already happened to far right and religious conservative ideology.

This is why the reactions to Elon buying Twitter are so strong, much like the church's reaction to paradigm-changing discoveries by Galileo which undermined both the Aristotelian model and Earth-centric church orthodoxy. His 'ban' was being forced to recant and being placed under house arrest by the Inquisition. Similar tactics were used by Twitter 1.0, but in digital form. Sometimes though, cancellation can cost one a job or livelihood, or worse.

So, anything 'Elon' is political these days, at least until Twitter 2.0 is well-established and the most vociferous detractors finally get it, but there will always be those whose interests depend on unmitigated FUD against Elon and anything he touches. For some, the reflexive 'hate' is just virtue signaling to a perceived ingroup, without much thought about nuance or context. This 'hate speech' as perceived by the observer can come from both sides, just as any race can be racist and both men and women can be sexist.

Logical fallacies and character assassination are far worse than critical inquiry directed at one's claims, even if one insists on labeling it 'hate speech' in an attempt to mark someone for cancellation in all of its forms. It behooves us to interrogate these serious charges vigorously, as we'd want the same when they're directed at us. The mob is a fickle beast.

All of this shall pass.
 
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