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Elon & Twitter

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Elon has repeated said policy when it comes to hate speech have not changed.

except for him personally reinstating accounts of people banned for hate-speech and saying he'll be granting "amnesty" to many more...

You may now tell us why we should ignore what Elon himself has said and done as evidence of his policies.
 
Yes, it is. If it’s not true, cue Apple in 3, 2, 1…to say otherwise.

*crickets*

It’s okay. You (specifically) might be right about something else another day. On this, you were wrong.
Apple denied that they ever stopped advertising on Twitter to begin with or planned to kick Twitter out of the App Store…
 
Uncensored Twitter would never be allowed in China and I am sure Iran would block it if they could.

Is Twitter censoring posts on Iran and China?

I have seen reports about Iran shipping weapons to Russia on Twitter.

From a quick check nothing about China seems to be censored on Twitter.

Elon can't enforce free speech in countries where the government doesn't allow it. Twitter doesn't have that power.
 
I am deeply conflicted driving one of the best cars in the world made by a company run by a deeply flawed human being I would not invite into my house.
Imo you guys need to get some perspective on how bad some other car companies leaders are in comparison to Elon. Nobody is perfect that's true, but there are a lot of worse people out there that get a lot less attention than Tesla. You think the Chaebols of Kia and Hyundai are much better? VW gassed monkeys, lied and cheated killing thousands by polluting the air. Global warming in general etc. You don't think the Chinese leaders behind Polestar are doing things Elon would get so much hate for if he did?

What has Elon done? Let a few Nazis post on his social media site? Nobody is forced to read what they say. Fired a few workers? He has created hundred of thousands jobs, shouldn't that outweigh that somewhat?
The reason he gets so much more scrutiny is because he is being used as a scapegoat to release tension. And he screams outgroup, he refuses to stay silent and so much disorder he creates in the in-group. But his crime are not worse than what lots of the other carmakers are doing that everyone is not getting upset about.
 
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except for him personally reinstating accounts of people banned for hate-speech and saying he'll be granting "amnesty" to many more...

You may now tell us why we should ignore what Elon himself has said and done as evidence of his policies.
I expect that they will be banned again if they post hate speech again.

They probably don't deserve a second chance, but the vast majority of them will waste it and end up banned again.

If Elon is making mistakes and being influenced by the wrong people, is is because those influencing Elon understand him. Those attacking Elon don't understand Elon, and are pushing him in the wrong direction. The more they attack the less likely it will be that Elon will do what they want.

No one is perfect, Elon can make mistakes.
 
LOL - excusing Nazis.
Eh... No. Just pointing out that being on Twitter doesn't mean you're able to influence people outside your little bubble. I have Jewish heritage by the way, so I hated everything about the Nazis. If this person was sprouting Nazi propaganda that oridinary people could see I would care - though they would also be banned again. A lot of citing of clearly biased sources on this thread and the fact some people can't see they're strongly biased sources I find hilarious.
 
Life doesn't always translate to a simple, left good, right bad, model.

I am left leaning and very pro equal treatment of all people, human rights, tolerance and democracy.

Part of toleranceis not prejudging others, attempting to understand their motivation, and when in doubt, giving them the benefit of the doubt.

Sometimes there is no doubt, but in the case of Elon and Twitter I am not seeing strong evidence that he is guilty of anything, and certainly no evidence that his focus on the Tesla mission has shifted.
 
I expect that they will be banned again if they post hate speech again.

They probably don't deserve a second chance, but the vast majority of them will waste it and end up banned again.

If Elon is making mistakes and being influenced by the wrong people, is is because those influencing Elon understand him. Those attacking Elon don't understand Elon, and are pushing him in the wrong direction. The more they attack the less likely it will be that Elon will do what they want.

No one is perfect, Elon can make mistakes.

But the claim was there was "no change in hate speech policy" which is voided by the reinstatements
 
The problem with this "Nazi" thing is not that people believe in hateful and divisive ideologies, but that it's not illegal to be stupid, racist, sexist, hateful, etc. Not in the U.S. anyway. In Germany, being a holocaust-denier is in fact illegal. I'm guessing that self-identified Nazis won't fare too well either on a German-run social media platform, but there are reasonable sensitivities there.

After all, theists are allowed on Twitter. That doesn't mean every theist is stupid or racist or sexist, but the BIBLE sure AF is. Last I checked, worshipping a being which one thinks killed the world (but for Noah and family) is not illegal, but it's asinine to worship such a being (from the vantage point of most religious skeptics, anyway). Even though the story is false, believers are so-named for a reason. They actually believe this, in whole or in part.

'Hate speech' is a VERY slippery slope and we've been dealing with this for years.

For Twitter, the Nazi who believes in crazy racist ideology is no different than someone who believes in hateful religious fiction, even if both haven't actually *carred out* said edicts or hate. Suffer not a witch to live. I don't see theists killing witches.......well not anymore. Sometimes these people DO act though, because belief informs behavior. Should Twitter try to control for this like the Minority Report pre-crime division?

Yet, this same phenomenon, mob rule, is busy trying to destroy Elon—personally and professionally. Wouldn't some nutter possibly be motivated to act with the perceived 'support' of the mob? This is one of the dangers of what's happening. I really hope Elon has great security because I really worry about his safety, and adding to the hate and baying of the mob is not helping. Some have been moved to the worst behaviors by less.

Using the legal standard is a good starting point for the same reason that the KKK or the Westboro Baptist Church (WBC), both religious organizations with hateful ideology, can have a peaceful assembly which is protected by the U.S. First Amendment. Of course most of us wouldn't agree with such nonsense, but they have the right to their dumb ideas....just like nominal theists do. Or BLM. Or Antifa. Or radical gender feminists (not the same as equity). Or a Flat-Earther anti-vaxxer. Or people who think astrology is settled science.

Terms of Service of course can veer from our peculiar 1A standards which guide a U.S. company, but if we're going to give everyone a voice then using a legal standard is a good starting point. Don't like someone's speech? Mute them. After all, the world is FULL of bad ideas, and some of them are in book form for free in every hotel room. Or, you might happen across them on Twitter. Do we need Twitter to vet ideas before we get a chance to follow or mute (or simply ignore) someone on our own?

Even when someone has a nominal worldview that doesn't including obvious craziness, I might mute them simply because they add apostrophes to plural words, but that's me. :D

P.S. Band Name Idea: The Spurious Apostrophe's
 
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Imo you guys need to get some perspective on how bad some other car companies leaders are in comparison to Elon. Nobody is perfect that's true, but there are a lot of worse people out there that get a lot less attention than Tesla. You think the Chaebols of Kia and Hyundai are much better? VW gassed monkeys, lied and cheated killing thousands by polluting the air. Global warming in general etc. You don't think the Chinese leaders behind Polestar are doing things Elon would get so much hate for if he did?

What has Elon done? Let a few Nazis post on his social media site? Nobody is forced to read what they say. Fired a few workers? He has created hundred of thousands jobs, shouldn't that outweigh that somewhat?
The reason he gets so much more scrutiny is because he is being used as a scapegoat to release tension. And he screams outgroup, he refuses to stay silent and so much disorder he creates in the in-group. But his crime are not worse than what lots of the other carmakers are doing that everyone is not getting upset about.


I'd be first to say that Elon has done tremendous things for the EV/car/space industries and we'd all not be where we are in EV adoption, solar, space without Elon.

BUT.....why are you bringing up Tesla and cars when we are in a discussion focused about social media and Twitter specifically? It's another misdirection/defense spewing out I feel from his supporters and what (again, your biased opinions now) is your need to bring up something that is irrelevant in this talk.

NO ONE and certainly not me is taking anything away from Elon in what he did in those industries and comparing it with corrupt governments and how Asian EV industry works (I just saw the Inside EVs podcast where they outright want to bribe reviewers for good reviews) is just more biased defense from someone who asks why others are so biased?


It's sorta like how I feel people defend sexual harrassers at work or some other thing since they are the "star" and should get a pass because, oh, they are so great or did so much previously.

And NO, Elon just doesn't get more scrutiny because he's only being a scapegoat. I think he invites it, relishes it (for attention) because that's just his style and he brings it on himself (remember that Paul Pelosi retweet? Like, um why? Maybe he should have just not deleted that retweet and stuck to his guns) so no, he doesn't just get special treatment nor attention. I'm sure if Elon called you a pedophile and you an Antifa person or whatever (and again, he has millions of followers to harass you afterwards IRL), you wouldn't like it so he brings stuff on without any fact checking and a lot of this stuff he's doing is self inflicted. Then, you have defenders like you claiming, oh, woe is Elon, poor him, people are so mean (remember all of Elon's own hate tweets).

We're not talking about Tesla, nor Space-X here.

Again, Elon should just fix Twitter and prove all his doubters wrong and no, he shouldn't get a pass on Twitter comments because Twitter is not making a car nor trying to send people to Mars.
 
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Can anyone answer this question? Various US states and other countries have laws against displaying a swastika, when used in the context of inciting hatred. How does this impact Twitter?

Section 230 of the FCC - Twitter is not directly legally liable for the postings of it's members. This covers all social media groups (and forums like this one).

Also, I haven't heard of these laws, can you link some of them for us? Genuine curiosity, as I was unaware of anything covering free speech in the USA except the 1st Amendment. According to Wikipedia, the Supreme Court upheld this in Texas vs. Johnson:
 
Section 230 of the FCC - Twitter is not directly legally liable for the postings of it's members. This covers all social media groups (and forums like this one).

Also, I haven't heard of these laws, can you link some of them for us? Genuine curiosity, as I was unaware of anything covering free speech in the USA except the 1st Amendment. According to Wikipedia, the Supreme Court upheld this in Texas vs. Johnson:
I heard something about some kooky NY law that’s supposed to take effect 12/3/22. Distopian.
 
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