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Elon & Twitter

I just don't think his flip flop actions or daily random tweets of every little thing he's thinking of and sharing is helping him at all with advertisers which was 90% of their revenue.

Reading the last three pages the only conclusion: he digs himself deeper in.

Either a sovereign anchor man or an open Nerv system. But then separated from the Tesla stock.
The SEC back then cleary stated that his personal Twitter account is not seen as „private“ but as an extension to Tesla and thus being critical in its PR and consequence to the stock.
Therefore „Twitter sitter“.
The board doesn’t give a *sugar so it’s time for shareholders and the SEC to step in.
 

JRP3

Hyperactive Member
Aug 20, 2007
23,926
67,172
Central New York
We all have selective perception, both me and you. My bias sees Elon as attacking both sides, just that the left have turned up their attacks on Elon and the middle. Your bias sees Elon not attacking the right and only attacking the right. You are right that I not be convinced, but you seem blind to your own bias.
We've seen Elon attacking the Dems, please show us all the examples of him doing the same to the Reps.
and yet I dont recall seeing an anti Tesla outside of these usual suspects. I have no doubt Reps use their tools to attack companies, too. They just dont target Tesla nearly as much.
Mitt Romney called Tesla a "Loser", Elon came back with: Mr. Romney, he suggested, had gotten "the object, but not the subject" of the remark right. Elon Musk, CEO Of 'Loser' Tesla, Suggests Romney Got It Wrong
Yet when Biden simply didn't mention Tesla Elon called him a "Wet sock puppet in human form". See the difference?
 

thx1139

Active Member
Aug 1, 2014
2,372
10,642
Lemont, IL
Life doesn't always translate to a simple, left good, right bad, model.

I am left leaning and very pro equal treatment of all people, human rights, tolerance and democracy.

Part of toleranceis not prejudging others, attempting to understand their motivation, and when in doubt, giving them the benefit of the doubt.

Sometimes there is no doubt, but in the case of Elon and Twitter I am not seeing strong evidence that he is guilty of anything, and certainly no evidence that his focus on the Tesla mission has shifted.
Where is the Master Plan part 3 that he announced he was close to finishing before he went on this nutty Twitter adventure?
 
Reading the last three pages the only conclusion: he digs himself deeper in.

Either a sovereign anchor man or an open Nerv system. But then separated from the Tesla stock.
The SEC back then cleary stated that his personal Twitter account is not seen as „private“ but as an extension to Tesla and thus being critical in its PR and consequence to the stock.
Therefore „Twitter sitter“.
The board doesn’t give a *sugar so it’s time for shareholders and the SEC to step in.

You are confusing things.

The SEC statement applies to Elon’s tweets about Tesla/TSLA. Those should be considered as coming from Tesla.

That does not mean that each of Elon’s tweets is an extension of Tesla. His tweets about AOC, Ukraine, Doge memes or Twitter are not coming from Tesla.

That many people cannot dissociate the person Elon from the company Tesla is a different matter. The board can decide that this association is too damaging and take action, the SEC surely cannot.
 

EVNow

Well-Known Member
Sep 5, 2009
16,333
41,415
Seattle, WA
Finally. A definition of "woke" we can kind of agree on.


ps : So, the next question is does Elon believe that there are no "systemic injustices in American society" or does he think there is no "need to address them" ?

pps : Even though this only talks about American society - I would argue it is worldwide phenomenon. There are grave injustices not just in US but in every country.
 
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30seconds

Active Member
Feb 28, 2013
2,598
7,703
SF
Finally. A definition of "woke" we can kind of agree on.


ps : So, the next question is does Elon believe that there are no "there are systemic injustices in American society" or does he think there is no "need to address them" ?

pps : Even though this only talks about American society - I would argue it is worldwide phenomenon. There are grave injustices not just in US but in every country.

Explains the “woke mind virus” comment. I mean once you start down this equality & freedom path for one group then pretty soon everyone else will want it as well.
 
That many people cannot dissociate the person Elon from the company Tesla is a different matter. The board can decide that this association is too damaging and take action, the SEC surely cannot.
That is the romantic vision.
There is no board there are some financially intertwined papertigers. Same as the committee at Twitter- ha!
The woke discussion, heck even the left right separation is a brilliant fog bomb for cementing this monolithic leadership further, because everything is made to believe urgent and needs instant action. The survival of free speech is under attack hence the survival of democracy.
Ridiculous.
It’s about keeping whatsboutism channeled and busy and further allowing for gutting Twitter towards a „vision“.

ATM Tesla is ran like Twitter. A private entity, and no one seems to be stepping in.
In that regard Elon was right.
The SEC has no power.
 
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stopcrazypp

Well-Known Member
Dec 8, 2007
13,532
10,097
Uncensored Twitter would never be allowed in China and I am sure Iran would block it if they could.

Is Twitter censoring posts on Iran and China?

I have seen reports about Iran shipping weapons to Russia on Twitter.

From a quick check nothing about China seems to be censored on Twitter.

Elon can't enforce free speech in countries where the government doesn't allow it. Twitter doesn't have that power.
That's not the question of course, the question was if free speech was so important to him, would he be willing to publicly support protesters of those places? The answer so far is no. Most of his focus so far seems to extend to the US only. Even EU will likely have restrictions (it will be interesting to see how they limit content that is illegal in the EU, but legal in the US).
 

mspohr

Well-Known Member
Jul 27, 2014
12,074
16,142
California

French President Emmanuel Macron read the riot act to Elon Musk on Friday, warning that the Twitter CEO must follow European Union regulations prohibiting misinformation and terrorist hate speech online if he plans to keep the social media platform operating across the sea.
“Transparent user policies, significant reinforcement of content moderation and protection of freedom of speech: Efforts have to be made by Twitter to comply with European regulations,” Macron said, adding that he informed Musk in a “clear and honest discussion.”
 

DrGriz

Active Member
Sep 11, 2021
1,583
2,502
Idaho

French President Emmanuel Macron read the riot act to Elon Musk on Friday, warning that the Twitter CEO must follow European Union regulations prohibiting misinformation and terrorist hate speech online if he plans to keep the social media platform operating across the sea.
“Transparent user policies, significant reinforcement of content moderation and protection of freedom of speech: Efforts have to be made by Twitter to comply with European regulations,” Macron said, adding that he informed Musk in a “clear and honest discussion.”
Will Musk hold to his (apparent, wherever they eventually land?) principles, and forego the European Twitter market? Or will it not matter, because compliant "transparent user policies and significant ... moderation" will soon fall into place?
 

bkp_duke

Well-Known Member
May 15, 2016
8,737
46,637
San Diego, CA

French President Emmanuel Macron read the riot act to Elon Musk on Friday, warning that the Twitter CEO must follow European Union regulations prohibiting misinformation and terrorist hate speech online if he plans to keep the social media platform operating across the sea.
“Transparent user policies, significant reinforcement of content moderation and protection of freedom of speech: Efforts have to be made by Twitter to comply with European regulations,” Macron said, adding that he informed Musk in a “clear and honest discussion.”

Huff Post is second only to The Verge in their hate for Elon.

Per Elon's nearly 2h long "Spaces" Q&A on Twitter yesterday, he said being compliant with EU regulations would not be a problem.

Read just Macron's quotes, take out the colorful adjectives that Huff Post put in the article, and it's FAR from the confrontational tone that Huff Post tries to make it sound like.
 

bkp_duke

Well-Known Member
May 15, 2016
8,737
46,637
San Diego, CA
Will Musk hold to his (apparent, wherever they eventually land?) principles, and forego the European Twitter market? Or will it not matter, because compliant "transparent user policies and significant ... moderation" will soon fall into place?

See my post above, Elon was very clear in that Twitter will adhere to EU transparency laws, AND he went further to say that they were a good idea in general, as he wants things at Twitter to be transparent, and the actions to follow them will be implemented in the USA as well.


And before everyone goes . . . . but, but, but . . . why hasn't he done this already, etc. etc. He was CRYSTAL clear on the call yesterday that his focus had been reaching first financial stability for Twitter (mainly reached, but recession pressures will continue) AND focusing on the tech.

He said unbannings were happening in batches (pretty much randomly, not per any political agenda) and that re-banings were being undertaken for those violating the ToS. And he said TO EXPECT some false positives (people banned inappropriately), and as those are brought to twitter's attention they will be looked at and the banning algos improved.
 
That's not the question of course, the question was if free speech was so important to him, would he be willing to publicly support protesters of those places? The answer so far is no. Most of his focus so far seems to extend to the US only. Even EU will likely have restrictions (it will be interesting to see how they limit content that is illegal in the EU, but legal in the US).
I’m sure they can max deboost and demonetize by region. Old Twitter was pretty adept at it.
 
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mspohr

Well-Known Member
Jul 27, 2014
12,074
16,142
California
Huff Post is second only to The Verge in their hate for Elon.

Per Elon's nearly 2h long "Spaces" Q&A on Twitter yesterday, he said being compliant with EU regulations would not be a problem.

Read just Macron's quotes, take out the colorful adjectives that Huff Post put in the article, and it's FAR from the confrontational tone that Huff Post tries to make it sound like.
The article was entirely about the Macron Twitter posts.
Since you don't like Huff Post, here are the relevant posts direct

 

kabin

Active Member
Nov 23, 2021
1,010
1,254
Southwest
Finally. A definition of "woke" we can kind of agree on.


ps : So, the next question is does Elon believe that there are no "systemic injustices in American society" or does he think there is no "need to address them" ?

pps : Even though this only talks about American society - I would argue it is worldwide phenomenon. There are grave injustices not just in US but in every country.
"Belief" might be the keyword there.

I could always be wrong but thought I read somewhere "woke" was getting out of bed early and preparing yourself for the many opportunities that exist to anyone here but even more so for the economically and socially challenged. Maybe the crux is a belief in self-motivation, values, and laws. In the end any clear answer becomes heated.
 

stopcrazypp

Well-Known Member
Dec 8, 2007
13,532
10,097
I’m sure they can max deboost and demonetize by region. Old Twitter was pretty adept at it.
The gist I get is deboost and demonetize is not enough, the content must be removed. Old Twitter had hate speech policy that applied across the world, new Twitter is supposedly relaxing that. That will bring up more cases that will conflict depending on region (even isolated to the "western" world). Some people pointed out old ISIS related accounts may be returning for example (not to mention neonazi ones).
 
The gist I get is deboost and demonetize is not enough, the content must be removed. Old Twitter had hate speech policy that applied across the world, new Twitter is supposedly relaxing that. That will bring up more cases that will conflict depending on region (even isolated to the "western" world). Some people pointed out old ISIS related accounts may be returning for example (not to mention neonazi ones).
“Hate speech” is relative. Language and context matter and no matter how much the wokaristas want to force a square peg into a round hole, our diversity is our strength.
 
Regardless of what some Musk-hating rag called The Washington Post says, being on Twitter doesn't mean people have reach or influence. If this Andrew Anglin chap (try Twitter searching his name BTW - see if his profile even shows) oversteps the mark he will disappear again.

The problem with this "Nazi" thing is not that people believe in hateful and divisive ideologies, but that it's not illegal to be stupid, racist, sexist, hateful, etc. Not in the U.S. anyway. In Germany, being a holocaust-denier is in fact illegal. I'm guessing that self-identified Nazis won't fare too well either on a German-run social media platform, but there are reasonable sensitivities there.

After all, theists are allowed on Twitter. That doesn't mean every theist is stupid or racist or sexist, but the BIBLE sure AF is. Last I checked, worshipping a being which one thinks killed the world (but for Noah and family) is not illegal, but it's asinine to worship such a being (from the vantage point of most religious skeptics, anyway). Even though the story is false, believers are so-named for a reason. They actually believe this, in whole or in part.

'Hate speech' is a VERY slippery slope and we've been dealing with this for years.

For Twitter, the Nazi who believes in crazy racist ideology is no different than someone who believes in hateful religious fiction, even if both haven't actually *carred out* said edicts or hate. Suffer not a witch to live. I don't see theists killing witches.......well not anymore. Sometimes these people DO act though, because belief informs behavior. Should Twitter try to control for this like the Minority Report pre-crime division?

Yet, this same phenomenon, mob rule, is busy trying to destroy Elon—personally and professionally. Wouldn't some nutter possibly be motivated to act with the perceived 'support' of the mob? This is one of the dangers of what's happening. I really hope Elon has great security because I really worry about his safety, and adding to the hate and baying of the mob is not helping. Some have been moved to the worst behaviors by less.

Using the legal standard is a good starting point for the same reason that the KKK or the Westboro Baptist Church (WBC), both religious organizations with hateful ideology, can have a peaceful assembly which is protected by the U.S. First Amendment. Of course most of us wouldn't agree with such nonsense, but they have the right to their dumb ideas....just like nominal theists do. Or BLM. Or Antifa. Or radical gender feminists (not the same as equity). Or a Flat-Earther anti-vaxxer. Or people who think astrology is settled science.

Terms of Service of course can veer from our peculiar 1A standards which guide a U.S. company, but if we're going to give everyone a voice then using a legal standard is a good starting point. Don't like someone's speech? Mute them. After all, the world is FULL of bad ideas, and some of them are in book form for free in every hotel room. Or, you might happen across them on Twitter. Do we need Twitter to vet ideas before we get a chance to follow or mute (or simply ignore) someone on our own?

Even when someone has a nominal worldview that doesn't including obvious craziness, I might mute them simply because they add apostrophes to plural words, but that's me. :D

P.S. Band Name Idea: The Spurious Apostrophe's
I don't think that there's much of a slippery slope between hosting religious discussions on the on hand and not merely allowing but PROMOTING Nazis on the other.
________________________________
One of those rejoining Twitter, 10 years after he was banned, is Andrew Anglin, editor of the Daily Stormer, for years one the best known openly racist and fascist publications.

In a leaked style guide, Anglin once explained that his goal is recruiting new neo-Nazis, and that blaming Jews was the best way to do that.

“As Hitler said, people will become confused and disheartened if they feel there are multiple enemies,” Anglin wrote in the guide. “As such, all enemies should be combined into one enemy, which is the Jews.”

On Friday, Twitter’s software recommended Anglin’s revived account under “who to follow” to everyday users, including comedic writer K. Thor Jensen, who shared a screenshot with The Washington Post.

“I do a little monitoring of the far right for comedy purposes but have never Googled him or anything and had no idea he was reinstated on the platform,” Jensen said. “It’s just insane that the algorithm would push him at ANYBODY.”
 

DrGriz

Active Member
Sep 11, 2021
1,583
2,502
Idaho
See my post above, Elon was very clear in that Twitter will adhere to EU transparency laws, AND he went further to say that they were a good idea in general, as he wants things at Twitter to be transparent, and the actions to follow them will be implemented in the USA as well.


And before everyone goes . . . . but, but, but . . . why hasn't he done this already, etc. etc. He was CRYSTAL clear on the call yesterday that his focus had been reaching first financial stability for Twitter (mainly reached, but recession pressures will continue) AND focusing on the tech.

He said unbannings were happening in batches (pretty much randomly, not per any political agenda) and that re-banings were being undertaken for those violating the ToS. And he said TO EXPECT some false positives (people banned inappropriately), and as those are brought to twitter's attention they will be looked at and the banning algos improved.
Thanks for your answer. Yes, I saw that you answered before I posted (we were writing at the same time). I look forward to seeing where the transparency and guidelines land.
 

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