Elon & Twitter

[mtndrew1]

Not that one data point makes any difference but since the origin of Covid when Elon decided he was an epidemiologist through to now where he may be influencing people to stop taking prescription antidepressants I’ve passed through three stages.

1. Tesla evangelist. I’ve “sold” about a dozen of these things to people curious about the brand.

2. Irritated with the theatrics but still proud of the brand.

3. Embarrassed to be driving a Tesla.

Last weekend I went car shopping.

I’ll probably just run this car into the ground and move on but all of this nonsense is a distracting embarrassment. I don’t like my car associated with the drama and am open to moving on.

 

[advocate8]

For those interested, this particular podcast episode of Hidden Brain discusses how brands advertise our personal identity and in-group. I think it's really pertinent to this discussion for a couple of reasons. First, Tesla has been a unique car brand in that for some people it was felt to advertise a type of environmental ethic, which overlaps with a particular part of the political spectrum. Second, Elon Musk is, in many ways, the harbinger of the brand's ethic. The two are inextricably linked (at least at the current time and the foreseeable future), so Elon's actions also reflect on the brand and therefore the owners of the brand.

It seems likely that the dichotomy between the original identity being telegraphed by brand ownership and the potentially contrasting identity being telegraphed by Elon in recent months has caused the difficulty we're seeing at this time. It also might be helpful for those trying to understand why current brand owners, who potentially fell into the former category, are wringing their hands a little at the idea that they might be telegraphing a new message that doesn't align with their personal identities.

It's a decent listen if anyone cares.

In marketing, their jargon for this is cognitive dissonance, and it’s pretty powerful stuff. They go to great lengths to try to tamp it down... it is a potential problem for pre-purchase, but also post-purchase for goods and services.
Def will listen. I mean, we can be personally unhappy about this part of the Twitter stuff or that... but there is no getting away from the fact that it is a pretty fascinating case study in human behavior and will get more so as it plays out.

 

[goin2drt]

I'm for companies limiting disinformation on their platforms and kicking out disruptive customers, that is not "taking a side". What I think is negative for Tesla is Elon leaning into the loony minority which the simple numbers show do not have the purchasing power of the majority. If the majority develops negative connotations for the brand it could be a net loss for the company. The problem is anyone with a modicum of social awareness could have garnered increased support on the right without losing it on the left and had an overall net gain. Elon's genius in technology and engineering does not translate into social engineering. Whatever he does with Twitter will probably not be all that radical but the way he's positioning himself makes it seem as if it will be and the damage is already being done.

All correct and agreed except for one major flaw in your theory. That is the FACT that you have an opinion about the “majority” and the “loony minority” being this huge number but you don’t know that number nor does anyone else. I would say that more of this majority vs minority number is closer to 50/50 (my opinion) and you never know that “loony minority” although you don’t believe it have huge purchasing power and could drive Tesla to new heights. I guess we will watch what happens to Tesla in the coming years and we can all revisit this banter and see who was right. My bet is on Tesla continuing to thrive even with the loudest group screaming in protest.

 

[JRP3]

So many people making baseless speculations, are there ANY indication Elon Musk's past behavior (for example during early covid) affected Tesla's sales? Let's see some numbers, otherwise you're just talking out of your behind.

Also don't overestimate your side's potential impact on Tesla sales, Tesla is a global company, nobody outside US cares about your particular political quirks, and US is only 18% or so of the global market, and your half represents less than 10% of Tesla's market.

And if you think companies like Apple doesn't have a political leaning that is quantifiable by numbers (such as their donation towards a particular party), you're living inside an echo chamber.

That's the point, people may have a vague idea of where Apple's politics lean but aren't getting beaten over the head with it on a daily basis. Through his bumbling ways Elon is making it look as if he's siding with the extreme right even though he's tweeted that he doesn't agree with them any more than the extreme left. Additionally the world does not align with the extreme right either and they are very much aware of their "political quirks."

 

[advocate8]

So many people making baseless speculations, are there ANY indication Elon Musk's past behavior (for example during early covid) affected Tesla's sales? Let's see some numbers, otherwise you're just talking out of your behind.

Also don't overestimate your side's potential impact on Tesla sales, Tesla is a global company, nobody outside US cares about your particular political quirks, and US is only 18% or so of the global market, and your half represents less than 10% of Tesla's market.

And if you think companies like Apple doesn't have a political leaning that is quantifiable by numbers (such as their donation towards a particular party), you're living inside an echo chamber.

This is disingenuous. This discussion isn’t about my political quirks or anyone else’s. Elon didn’t help sales with his behavior re: vaccinations, but people could look at that and say OK... we know he is a libertarian and he has run himself into the ground trying to ramp that factory up. The political side of it just wasn’t in your face. Apple’s political stance... I assume to be left? but haven’t paid much attention, and I haven’t had it shoved in my face.
This is completely different. If he lets Trump back on Twitter in particular, which most people seem to assume he will, that is hardly comparable to Apple’s low key whatever.
And for the umpteenth time, Apple et al don’t have a stated moral mission. If any one company has a responsibility to stay as far from partisan BS that would turn people off as possible, it is Tesla.
It is an absolute fact that this is already turning people away from Tesla. In the U.S., first, later Europe. People there pay attention to US politics, though it takes them awhile to catch on. A company’s image is international too. Not just their sales.
You don’t have to be a lefty to see this is happening.

 

[JRP3]

That is the FACT that you have an opinion about the “majority” and the “loony minority” being this huge number but you don’t know that number nor does anyone else. I would say that more of this majority vs minority number is closer to 50/50 (my opinion) and you never know that “loony minority” although you don’t believe it have huge purchasing power and could drive Tesla to new heights.

The numbers paint a clear picture. The right are the minority party and only a portion of the right buy into the extreme right fringe.

 

[Big Dog]

No one's worried about Elon. They are worried about his company as shareholders. Why is that so hard for you to see?

Republicans in general overwhelming oppose EVs while Dems are much much more open to them. Just look at any EV thread on Facebook or polls on this subject for proof. This could become a serious problem for Tesla someday from a demand standpoint.

Republicans in the Tesla community are abundant but the Tesla community (investors or fans) is a tiny tiny niche.

Say what? (I would submit that Republicans are against EV subsidies but more agnostic towards teh cars themselves. I personally know many Reps who were the first Model S buyers, and have even put down a deposit for the Roadster.)

Opinion | Why Are Republicans Now Loving the Sweet Sound of Electric Vehicles?

Ford’s plans for multi-billion dollar manufacturing sites for electric vehicles has Tennessee and Kentucky singing a different tune on cleaner energy.

www.nytimes.com

That said, I do think Elon is running a risk for all of his businesses. Current regulators in Washington are not happy personally with his foray into Twitter. They could easily put in extra rules which make it harder for Tesla to obtain grants for battery research and charger expansion; for example grant priorities go to Union shops. Moreover, SpaceX needs permits & contracts from these same regulators....

Right now the press is in melt down with the idea that their favorite communication vehicle might no longer have the slant that they prefer. Until the press finds taht new shiny thing (to replace of Twitter), they (press) will continue to publish stuff that show Elon in a bad light, again which can hurt Tesla's image adn future sales.

 

[spacerfc]

That's the point, people may have a vague idea of where Apple's politics lean but aren't getting beaten over the head with it on a daily basis. Through his bumbling ways Elon is making it look as if he's siding with the extreme right even though he's tweeted that he doesn't agree with them any more than the extreme left. Additionally the world does not align with the extreme right either and they are very much aware of their "political quirks."

Elon Musk is not beating anything over your head on a daily basis, his most recent political tweet was a *reply* to media claiming he's "petulant & not-so-bright", claiming he's "far right" is an insane position, is he claiming the election was stolen? Is he endorsing any far right candidates in elections? Did he make any anti-Semitic or anti-minority comments? It is true that the *western* world does not align with extreme right, but it is also true that the rest of the world doesn't label him a "far right" just because of some tweets.

 

[spacerfc]

This is disingenuous. This discussion isn’t about my political quirks or anyone else’s. Elon didn’t help sales with his behavior re: vaccinations, but people could look at that and say OK... we know he is a libertarian and he has run himself into the ground trying to ramp that factory up. The political side of it just wasn’t in your face. Apple’s political stance... I assume to be left? but haven’t paid much attention, and I haven’t had it shoved in my face.
This is completely different. If he lets Trump back on Twitter in particular, which most people seem to assume he will, that is hardly comparable to Apple’s low key whatever.
And for the umpteenth time, Apple et al don’t have a stated moral mission. If any one company has a responsibility to stay as far from partisan BS that would turn people off as possible, it is Tesla.
It is an absolute fact that this is already turning people away from Tesla. In the U.S., first, later Europe. People there pay attention to US politics, though it takes them awhile to catch on. A company’s image is international too. Not just their sales.
You don’t have to be a lefty to see this is happening.

The political side of his tweet during early covid isn't in your face? He literally tweeted FREEDOM in all caps, that's really an instance where he's trying to beat this over people's head, unlike right now where he's mostly just reacting. As for Apple's political stance, you don't pay much attention because it's on your side, you're sensitive to what Musk said because he used to be on your side but now seems to be moving away, i.e. a traitor in your eyes.

And stated moral mission is exactly WHY he's doing this, he believes a private twitter is important for a functioning democracy, if you don't even realize this is his intention, there's not much point in continuing the discussion. And he IS trying to stay away from partisan BS by staying neutral and unbiased, or did you not see his tweet about making both far left and far right unhappy?

And if "It is an absolute fact that this is already turning people away from Tesla", well if this is significant, it would show up in numbers, so far nobody has provided one.

 

[JRP3]

And if "It is an absolute fact that this is already turning people away from Tesla", well if this is significant, it would show up in numbers, so far nobody has provided one.

Tesla is production constrained and will be for quite a while so no it will not show up in numbers in the near term. It may limit the long term growth potential.

 

[EVNow]

"extreme left" has taken over the country.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1521306133645955072

 

[Electroman]

Opinion | Why Are Republicans Now Loving the Sweet Sound of Electric Vehicles?

Ford’s plans for multi-billion dollar manufacturing sites for electric vehicles has Tennessee and Kentucky singing a different tune on cleaner energy.

www.nytimes.com

This article mentions Ford over and over again, and their decision to build EV/battery factories in Kentucky & Tennessee and how the new jobs and money literally changed the stance of politicians overnight. It even mentions GM and VW.

But interestingly Tesla was not mentioned even once, even though their decision to build a massive factory in one of largest red states changed the governor's tune on green energy, and that inspite of Texas being the largest fossil fuel producer generating huge revenue and jobs.

That article was intended to be a nice plug for Ford, on a topic that should have had Tesla right front and center.

This is exactly how Media does gaslighting.

 

[advocate8]

The political side of his tweet during early covid isn't in your face? He literally tweeted FREEDOM in all caps, that's really an instance where he's trying to beat this over people's head, unlike right now where he's mostly just reacting. As for Apple's political stance, you don't pay much attention because it's on your side, you're sensitive to what Musk said because he used to be on your side but now seems to be moving away, i.e. a traitor in your eyes.

And stated moral mission is exactly WHY he's doing this, he believes a private twitter is important for a functioning democracy, if you don't even realize this is his intention, there's not much point in continuing the discussion. And he IS trying to stay away from partisan BS by staying neutral and unbiased, or did you not see his tweet about making both far left and far right unhappy?

And if "It is an absolute fact that this is already turning people away from Tesla", well if this is significant, it would show up in numbers, so far nobody has provided one.

It will def show up in sales.
A moral mission has zero to do with his purchase of Twitter, except as his rationalization for doing something that wasn’t wise. Twitter isn’t “important for functioning Democracy.” Twitter is corrosive to a functioning democracy, and a looser Twitter even more so.
At best it’s just a distracting waste of time and energy.
One tweet about not appeasing the 10 percent who just want the right to use the N-word anytime they want vs the 10 percent who think the public should pay for healthcare doesn’t alleviate the other tweets. False equivalency.

 

[advocate8]

Say what? (I would submit that Republicans are against EV subsidies but more agnostic towards teh cars themselves. I personally know many Reps who were the first Model S buyers, and have even put down a deposit for the Roadster.)

Opinion | Why Are Republicans Now Loving the Sweet Sound of Electric Vehicles?

Ford’s plans for multi-billion dollar manufacturing sites for electric vehicles has Tennessee and Kentucky singing a different tune on cleaner energy.

www.nytimes.com

That said, I do think Elon is running a risk for all of his businesses. Current regulators in Washington are not happy personally with his foray into Twitter. They could easily put in extra rules which make it harder for Tesla to obtain grants for battery research and charger expansion; for example grant priorities go to Union shops. Moreover, SpaceX needs permits & contracts from these same regulators....

Right now the press is in melt down with the idea that their favorite communication vehicle might no longer have the slant that they prefer. Until the press finds taht new shiny thing (to replace of Twitter), they (press) will continue to publish stuff that show Elon in a bad light, again which can hurt Tesla's image adn future sales.

regulators will not discriminate against Tesla in the way described. the backlash would be incredible and people would lose their jobs and be fired and potentially face jail. that’s not the way it works. that’s the stuff of fanciful conspiracy theories about government. government gets up to enough stupid stuff without buying into ideas like this they absolutely would be taken to court for and lose on.

 

[advocate8]

The political side of his tweet during early covid isn't in your face? He literally tweeted FREEDOM in all caps, that's really an instance where he's trying to beat this over people's head, unlike right now where he's mostly just reacting. As for Apple's political stance, you don't pay much attention because it's on your side, you're sensitive to what Musk said because he used to be on your side but now seems to be moving away, i.e. a traitor in your eyes.

And stated moral mission is exactly WHY he's doing this, he believes a private twitter is important for a functioning democracy, if you don't even realize this is his intention, there's not much point in continuing the discussion. And he IS trying to stay away from partisan BS by staying neutral and unbiased, or did you not see his tweet about making both far left and far right unhappy?

And if "It is an absolute fact that this is already turning people away from Tesla", well if this is significant, it would show up in numbers, so far nobody has provided one.

Also, let’s back up to the main issue here. Explain how Musk’s buying Twitter is furthering Tesla’s mission?

 

[DarkandStormy]

Elon Musk is not beating anything over your head on a daily basis, his most recent political tweet was a *reply* to media claiming he's "petulant & not-so-bright", claiming he's "far right" is an insane position, is he claiming the election was stolen? Is he endorsing any far right candidates in elections? Did he make any anti-Semitic or anti-minority comments? It is true that the *western* world does not align with extreme right, but it is also true that the rest of the world doesn't label him a "far right" just because of some tweets.

He's bought into the Hunter Biden laptop conspiracy. He's interacting with far right, white nationalists on Twitter, despite saying Twitter would be better off if both the "extreme left" and "extreme right" were unhappy (there's not enough nuance in 280 characters to discuss the differences between the two, but Elon is trying to equate them). Has he interacted with *any* prominent Twitter account in the last three weeks that could be called "far left?" He tweeted an incorrect meme chart showing the "far right" hasn't moved farther right in the last 20-25 years, but it's aCkShUlLaY the far left that's gotten more extreme in recent years. In early 2020, he claimed covid would have a lower fatality rate than the common cold (or influenza, he added on to that) and then never circled back to how incorrect his early covid takes were when the evidence started piling up against him.

He hasn't tweeted or said any outright far right / alt right positions (besides the Hunter Biden laptop conspiracy). But you can tell he's very alt-right adjacent and alt-right friendly. Just scroll through his feed.

 

[Dave EV]

Not that one data point makes any difference but since the origin of Covid when Elon decided he was an epidemiologist through to now where he may be influencing people to stop taking prescription antidepressants I’ve passed through three stages.

1. Tesla evangelist. I’ve “sold” about a dozen of these things to people curious about the brand.

2. Irritated with the theatrics but still proud of the brand.

3. Embarrassed to be driving a Tesla.

Last weekend I went car shopping.

I’ll probably just run this car into the ground and move on but all of this nonsense is a distracting embarrassment. I don’t like my car associated with the drama and am open to moving on.

I hear you and I have heard plenty of similar stories from other Tesla owners. I have been at #2 now for quite a while. I still love the car and the company that produces the product, but the drama is aggravating. It was aggravating even before he got into politics (whole cave rescue drama, for example). It's enough that Tesla has long been perceived as a rich person's car (still the #1 question I get - how much did it cost always followed up by expensive) and having it attract other types of negative attention is pushing it. If some other personality on the other side of the isle was the face of Tesla, I would feel the same way.

Elon Musk is not beating anything over your head on a daily basis, his most recent political tweet was a *reply* to media claiming he's "petulant & not-so-bright", claiming he's "far right" is an insane position, is he claiming the election was stolen? Is he endorsing any far right candidates in elections? Did he make any anti-Semitic or anti-minority comments? It is true that the *western* world does not align with extreme right, but it is also true that the rest of the world doesn't label him a "far right" just because of some tweets.

Have you taken a survey of what the rest of the world thinks of Elon? Let's see the data.

As far as "beating anything over your head", EVERYTHING Elon says is amplified because of the number of followers he has. With those followers comes a large amount of power and responsibility, something I'm not sure Elon fully appreciates.

Because Tesla has no advertising and a very limited marketing team, Elon, whether he likes it or not, is the face of Tesla and all the other companies he is associated with (SpaceX, Boring Co, NeuraLink, etc). Even so - as an executive in a company, he bears the responsibility to act in a manner that best represents ALL of his employees. As Technoking (aka CEO) of Tesla, he is responsible for the livelyhood of 110k direct employees, 500k indirect and growing.

At the end of the day, getting into pointless, flaming Twitter debates that alienates huge portions of his employees, customers and shareholders is counterproductive to the company mission.

Edit: Fix quoting.

 

[_Redshift_]

Not that one data point makes any difference but since the origin of Covid when Elon decided he was an epidemiologist through to now where he may be influencing people to stop taking prescription antidepressants I’ve passed through three stages.

1. Tesla evangelist. I’ve “sold” about a dozen of these things to people curious about the brand.

2. Irritated with the theatrics but still proud of the brand.

3. Embarrassed to be driving a Tesla.

Last weekend I went car shopping.

I’ll probably just run this car into the ground and move on but all of this nonsense is a distracting embarrassment. I don’t like my car associated with the drama and am open to moving on.

I’ve been shopping for a while now.

All the negatives about Tesla cars (nothing political) broke the camels back so to speak around one year ago, for me.

With this new revelations from Elon, the Camel has been well and truly buried under a pile of rocks.

Now, I’m left to the tender mercies of Electrify America, and others!!

What I’ll be gaining though:

1. Quieter interiors
2. Better build quality (exterior and interior)
3. Better quality interior materials
4. Better color choices (exterior and interior)
5. Physical buttons for critical functions
6. More luxurious feel

I’m talking about MBZ EQE. Or Lucid.

 

[mtndrew1]

I’ve been shopping for a while now.

All the negatives about Tesla cars (nothing political) broke the camels back so to speak around one year ago, for me.

With this new revelations from Elon, the Camel has been well and truly buried under a pile of rocks.

Now, I’m left to the tender mercies of Electrify America, and others!!

What I’ll be gaining though:

1. Quieter interiors
2. Better build quality (exterior and interior)
3. Better quality interior materials
4. Better color choices (exterior and interior)
5. Physical buttons for critical functions
6. More luxurious feel

I’m talking about MBZ EQE. Or Lucid.

I liked the IONIQ 5 and the Volvo XC60, the former being impossible to find and the latter being a PHEV. I might try the eTron.

 

[Beltsbear]

I’ve been shopping for a while now.

All the negatives about Tesla cars (nothing political) broke the camels back so to speak around one year ago, for me.

With this new revelations from Elon, the Camel has been well and truly buried under a pile of rocks.

Now, I’m left to the tender mercies of Electrify America, and others!!

What I’ll be gaining though:

1. Quieter interiors
2. Better build quality (exterior and interior)
3. Better quality interior materials
4. Better color choices (exterior and interior)
5. Physical buttons for critical functions
6. More luxurious feel

I’m talking about MBZ EQE. Or Lucid.

Seems like even for this thread we are drifting off into lala land. Go buy a Mercedes. I. myself would greatly prefer a 2022 S. But this is the Twitter thread.