Elon & Twitter

[Knightshade]

So, you have read and understood all this better than Elon’s investment advisors’ group of professional lawyers ?

Are those the same advisors that caused him to file the wrong form 13 originally... and late on top of that?

 

[CLK350]

Are those the same advisors that caused him to file the wrong form 13 originally... and late on top of that?

Actually that could have been a good ruse considering the penalty would be minuscule compared to the benefits (recall the chess game being played at the time)

 

[AudubonB]

Can Mr Musk at the very least find out if any of his 95MM+ followers are bots?

 

[EVNow]

Can Mr Musk at the very least find out if any of his 95MM+ followers are bots?

Indian prime minister has double the number of followers than Twitter users of India.

Big accounts have very large % of bot followers.

 

[EVNow]

Are those the same advisors that caused him to file the wrong form 13 originally... and late on top of that?

Wrong according to you ….

 

[Xepa777]

Perhaps on a day to day it's amplified, but TSLA is not down more than other "tech" piers like NVDA, AMD, etc. over that time.

Plus - anyone investing in TSLA should already be aware of this with Elon. The b!tching and moaning here is just people not happy with his political stance, he's ALWAYS been outspoken like this on Twitter, and controversial. And I'm fine with that, TSLA is the best performing stock I have ever owned. EVER. And I'm not that young.

Rmbwr funding secured? That was bad. For a period of time I actually thought Elon could be forcibly removed from Tesla as CEO.

Everything today? It’s great entertainment value lol.

 

[Knightshade]

Wrong according to you ….

No, wrong according to THEM.

Which is why they had to file an amended one shortly thereafter.

(also wrong according to the literal instructions on the form, the rules of the SEC, and every other standard by which it might be judged wrong).

Are you now gonna tell me it wasn't also late because Elon used the Mayan calendar or something?

Actually that could have been a good ruse considering the penalty would be minuscule compared to the benefits (recall the chess game being played at the time)

Now see, that's a perfectly reasonable argument.... they for sure filed the wrong form (and late) but did so intentionally....

Though also a good illustration of much of what is wrong in financial and corporate regulation--- the penalties are such that it's typically super profitable to just ignore the rules.

See also Ford/GM having decades of selling known deadly cars because fines and lawsuits were cheaper than fixing the bad parts.

 

[DarkandStormy]

The ALLEGED claim of 5% bots is what would be the lie. Twitter's corporate language that you quoted, despite their attempt to cover their butts, doesn't give them actual cover if the real number of bots are much greater than 5%.

Under the law, this would fall under "materially false statement".

The CEO of Twitter posted how they calculate the 5%. Elon responded with a poop emoji, in case you're wondering how serious he's taking this.

 

[DarkandStormy]

So, you have read and understood all this better than Elon’s investment advisors’ group of professional lawyers ?

Considering Elon mostly flies by the seat of his pants in these type of things, it's pretty reasonable to assume he's just bringing this up as a way to get out of massively overpaying for Twitter.

Elon has alleged 90% of Twitter accounts are fake (with no evidence except to inspect one's followers and guess). The CEO of Twitter posted the company's methodology.

 

[Artful Dodger]

Elon Musk Just Drilled Twitter A New Butthole | Sasha Yanshin Live

 

[EVNow]

Considering Elon mostly flies by the seat of his pants in these type of things, it's pretty reasonable to assume he's just bringing this up as a way to get out of massively overpaying for Twitter.

Oh .... I've no arguments with that. Ofcourse Elon wants to reduce the price or get out of the deal. Otherwise he wouldn't bring this up.

But assuming the lawyers haven't read the contract word by word and have formulated how they can advance what Elon is saying in the court is just mostly "flying by the seat of your pants".

It is also not unreasonable to think that Twitter is overstating their customer base (and under counting bots). Anyone who has used twitter would laugh at that low-ball 5% figure.

 

[bkp_duke]

Oh .... I've no arguments with that. Ofcourse Elon wants to reduce the price or get out of the deal. Otherwise he wouldn't bring this up.

But assuming the lawyers haven't read the contract word by word and have formulated how they can advance what Elon is saying in the court is just mostly "flying by the seat of your pants".

It is also not unreasonable to think that Twitter is overstating their customer base (and under counting bots). Anyone who has used twitter would laugh at that low-ball 5% figure.

Yeah, it's not like Twitter hasn't done things with customer data and been fined for it before . . .

Hefty FTC Penalty Against Twitter Reveals Privacy Policy Disclaimers Not Sufficient | JD Supra

The Federal Trade Commission has levied a negotiated $150 million civil penalty against Twitter for violating an existing FTC order for alleged...

www.jdsupra.com

Twitter Settles Charges that it Failed to Protect Consumers' Personal Information; Company Will Establish Independently Audited Information Security Program

Social networking service Twitter has agreed to settle Federal Trade Commission charges that it deceived consumers and put their privacy at risk by failing to safeguard their personal information,

www.ftc.gov

Not exactly a company you can take at their word.

 

[Daniel in SD]

Anyone who has used twitter would laugh at that low-ball 5% figure.

Anyone who has used TSLA Twitter. haha. That's where all the bots are in my Twitter experience.
Twitter does not claim that only 5% of users are bots. Read what Twitter actually claims and you'll see that there's no evidence that it's not true.
If the number of bots is so obvious using public data then why didn't Elon factor that into his offer?

 

[bkp_duke]

Anyone who has used TSLA Twitter. haha. That's where all the bots are in my Twitter experience.
Twitter does not claim that only 5% of users are bots. Read what Twitter actually claims and you'll see that there's no evidence that it's not true.
If the number of bots is so obvious using public data then why didn't Elon factor that into his offer?

As a moderator pointed out, they key word in the agreement is "monetizable". This is the root of the argument between Twitter and Musk.

 

[Daniel in SD]

As a moderator pointed out, they key word in the agreement is "monetizable". This is the root of the argument between Twitter and Musk.

Monetizable DAU are Twitter users who log in and access Twitter on any given day through twitter.com or our Twitter applications that are able to show ads. Our mDAU are not comparable to current disclosures from other companies, many of whom share a more expansive metric that includes people who are not seeing ads.

What evidence is there that this is not true?

 

[EVNow]

What evidence is there that this is not true?

If you hide all the data then I can't show any evidence.

Afterall, Twitter claims we can't figure out what they are calculating using publicly available data. So, obviously there can't be any "evidence" that what they are doing is wrong.

Twitter does not claim that only 5% of users are bots. Read what Twitter actually claims and you'll see that there's no evidence that it's not true.

Yes - I've seen all that stuff.

Indian PM has twice the number of followers than Indian users of Twitter. Thats all the "evidence" I need

You don't get $44B by saying there is "no evidence". If you want $44B you show you are not hiding stuff or go through a lengthy court case.

Anyway, looks like Texas AG is going to force Twitter to come to court anyway ...

 

[AudubonB]

As someone who has worn on his sleeve, his chest, his cap and his back his disdain for Twitter since well before it became a publicly-owned company, and used this platform to express that as often as propriety and probity permit, I acknowledge those who hold differing views of that company may view any comments I put forth with suspicion. That’s fair enough - most of us are human.

That out of the way - taking as a whole the points raised in the prior score or so of posts, how (this is not a rhetorical “how” but a request for an answer) can one reconcile Mr Musk’s intelligence and perspicacity with what appears to be a vast misunderstanding of some supremely basic and important negative features of Twitter? A misunderstanding on the order of several tens of billions of dollars?

I ask this not because I am hoping to have my opinion of Twitter changed. Rather, so that I need not change my opinion of Mr Musk.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Indian PM has twice the number of followers than Indian users of Twitter. Thats all the "evidence" I need

What does this have to do with mDAU? This is a very strange and confusing statement.

 

[Daniel in SD]

If you hide all the data then I can't show any evidence.

Afterall, Twitter claims we can't figure out what they are calculating using publicly available data. So, obviously there can't be any "evidence" that what they are doing is wrong.

If you want private data then you don't waive due diligence.

Indian PM has twice the number of followers than Indian users of Twitter. Thats all the "evidence" I need

How do you know those followers are counted as monetizable daily active users? There are many times more Twitter accounts than there are mDAUs. It also seems possible that bots follow way more people than real users which could make them a high percentage of every users followers without actually being a high percentage of users. Regardless, all this information was available when Elon made his offer.

 

[EVNow]

If you want private data then you don't waive due diligence.

Isn't that the core of peanut gallery argument ?

BTW, you are asking for "evidence" - that only comes by analyzing actual data.

How do you know those followers are counted as monetizable daily active users?

We don't - thats why the data is being asked to be provided. You ask for data because of suspicion - not evidence.

Its like how the police issue subpoena to obtain evidence. They just need a reasonable cause for suspicion.