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Elon & Twitter

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Let’s wait and see what Elon publishes about it. I expect it in two weeks.
This is almost perfectly congruent to the Kayne drama.
Kanye still posts clips of him designing a new collection and bragging about style and music, and most important new sneakers.
My son shrugged when I asked him yesterday. For him and his generation Kanye is history. Oversaturated with hype, out of his mind.
At this point no one cares. He´s virtually dead. There are certain actions a person can make publicly before a cemented, incorrectable perception of a public persona forms, and that happened in a pretty short timeframe. An outbreak.

I´m not sure anybody is interested in Elons postulation about what Twitter might become in his mind.
It´s past that point. It´s no longer interesting and a constant source for ache.
The giant shrunk to a dwarf. From a cool misfit rocker to an old (white) man morphed in no transition time.
 
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This interview of Kara Swisher from a week or so ago has a fair amount of insight into what's been happening to Elon. I listened to the podcast interview and it's well worth the time.

She might not be what he called her, but what she did is something such a person would do.
 
This interview of Kara Swisher from a week or so ago has a fair amount of insight into what's been happening to Elon. I listened to the podcast interview and it's well worth the time.

This is it right here:

Kara Swisher: Today? Hopeless. He’s capable of great things here. He’s behaving … He’s disappointing in how he’s handling himself. And in the midst of all this disappointment, there’s all these really good ideas. It’s just so bossy. “I’m the law.” It’s so narcissistic. And the thing the other day, the advertising thing, someone asked about the difference between Twitter and Elon Musk.
 
Second the notion. I was a denizen of those forums. The early days of those forums provided a place for those interested in Teslas to Ask Questions and Get Answers. Once the FUD train got well and started, various short sellers and, given the actions and contexts of those that are conveniently named, "trolls", it appears that other, paid-for actors were sent to disrupt the place. It was discovered that at least two of these troll-types were playing the same games at Ford's EV forums. (Besides: It gets kind of obvious that there's Something Going On when a particular poster is posting FUD and associated 24 hours a day, for days at a time.)

Tesla kept on trying different algorithms: Community policing in various forms with "reports", Slashdot-style, that would get posts removed. Each of those several methods were deconstructed and weaponized by the trolls; towards the end, 90% of the posts on the forums were trolls and people responding to the trolls.

Thing is, an actual human moderator (such as we have around here) is smarter than any number of funky algorithms, can cut through the cruft, and ban actual malefactors. Given the number of forums over at Tesla that would have required, I would guess, around a dozen moderators or so, rather than (what appeared) to be one or two severely overworked Tesla drones who seemed to have other fish to fry than run herd on the forums there.

Thing is, once sales had picked up, the forums didn't seem to pique that much interest from within Tesla. I would guess the forums over there were part of Public Relations - and, as you all know, that got closed down by Tesla.
I wasn't even aware that Tesla's official forums had been shuttered.

I recall considering that forum or this one a few years ago. I believe at the time this one had more traffic. This lead me to believe that the official forums had some kind of obnoxious censorship situation and that I would get better information here.

Slashdot is an interesting situation. I don't know if it can be easily replicated.

Reddit looks like it has some AI moderation. I get the impression that its a tool used to extend the human moderation as opposed to replacing it.

Yeah I don't think it's reasonable to replace human moderation anytime soon, especially on such a large platform as twitter.
 
Um. Thinking back about my post about brain issues..

The first time I realized that something seemed out of kilter was when Musk went over the edge when the Fremont factory was closed down because of COVID. Before then he seemed neither left nor right leaning, but just this entrepreneur worried about getting product out the door, disrupting industries, and, as a strong sideline, Saving the World.

A more.. balanced.. approach might have gotten his factories open in CA in about the same time frame that they were eventually opened up. But he went.. combative. It worked.. kind of, but stepped on a lot of peoples' toes that perhaps didn't deserve getting stepped upon. And, in the end, was perhaps more than a little self-defeating.

That struck me as odd at the time, and out of character. Since then, I've happened to talk to people associated with his companies, and they report odd behavior (at least, odd to me, an engineering worker bee) as well.

The behavior has continued to change. Yeah, political leanings can change. Work habits can change. Being changeable is part of the human experience. So it's not difficult for people to come up with explanations for behavior, be it thinking that a person is playing multidimensional chess (which is the vaguely generic opinion around these parts) or is a fraud (TeslaQ style). But this dive-to-the-right behavior seems incongruous when compared to his behavior before 2020.

And that's the point. As I mentioned before, my father passed some years back from Lewy Body disease, a form of dementia. In 20-20 hindsight, the family realized that his behavioral changes had started some 20 years before his diagnosis, which only happened around the time when things had degraded to the point where he was as likely to walk backwards as forwards (it had gotten to his muscle functions). Until that point, the family had explained away his behavior as that of, well, an irascible old man. And that included his spouse.

With many forms of dementia, the first things to go are higher brain functions. Introspection is one of those things. When you ask somebody in the early throes of this kind of problem, "What are you doing? What would other people think?" you get back.. nothing. It doesn't compute for them. A number of the family literally asked my father that and had no answer from him, just this.. weird pronouncement, repeated, that didn't fit with the person we thought we knew.

Right about that time, or a little later, he stopped admitting that anything he said or did was wrong. Which was, again, odd: People make mistakes all the time, and, while he had been a little slow admitting to the odd mistake or other, after a bit, he never admitted to any error.

Mind you, he was in a highly technical field. He was still doing research, writing papers, and editing journals.. but it slowed down over time, gradually. While people around him got more and more irritated with the man and, after several years, he was forced out. A decade or so later, he lost the ability to do math. And then to string words together. And, eventually, lost the ability to swallow. This progression is not something that's easy to forget.

A couple of years ago I was wandering through the American Museum of Natural History in New York and came across an exhibit that detailed this progression. It was, well, enlightening, in a rather morbid sense. And explained quite a bit about what had happened to my Dad.

Musk is in the right age range for something like this to happen to him. I'm not kidding: I wonder if he should see a neurologist?

First, sorry to hear about your dad.

By no means am I presuming to make any diagnosis at all, but as long as you raise the subject, lack of attention or focus, impulsiveness, inability to solve problems or complete tasks and impaired judgment can indeed be signs of organic frontal lobe disease. There are plenty of other potential explanations as well.

Anyway, I hope for the best.

I think it is a bad idea to make a remote ‘diagnosis’ of Elon’s health because:

- Everyone here lacks the proper medical background (having a family member - regretfully - suffer from a certain disease does not provide that background)
- Even for a trained medical professional in the right field it is impossible to make such a diagnosis based on what can be seen in tweets, interviews and actions, without ever having personally spoken to or observed that person.
- Some of the ‘symptoms’ are not even present in Elon. There is no lack of focus, he is in fact extremely focussed (on Twitter). And there is no inability to solve problems or complete tasks, as far as any of us can tell.

I think making such an layman’s diagnosis is a very slippery slope and should be avoided.
 
How is Apple a monopoly? Consumers can buy Android phones if they don't like Apple's ecosystem. What Apple is doing with iPhone isn't any different than what Sony, Nintendo, and Microsoft do with their video game consoles.
People can buy new Apple products directly from Apple or from any Apple resellers. That's why there are so many discounted sales prices at the moment. However, people can buy new Tesla cars only from.... 🤔
 
He is also conflating rather unrelated items on his Apple crusade.

First topic is Apple's use of Twitter for ads - buying advertising to show the new iPhone for example in the general twitter feeds. Apple is totally within it's (free speech) rights to advertise when and where it likes, and there's no shortage of places to show ads these days.

Then suddenly Elon's ranting about the in-app-purchase and subscription fees in the Apple store. Which are pretty much identical to what Google charges, and is a topic that App makers have wrestled with for years - most especially the gaming-app and music-streaming companies. This area is not new, not unique to Apple, not anything to do with free speech, and completely unrelated to Apple advertising on Twitter or not.

I wish Elon would return to the world of science and not play such games. I don't expect that hope to be fullfilled.
 
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4. Elon regaining his sanity. OK, only half kidding. But, a related idea, if Tesla can show that it can outperform and innovate despite Elon's side hustles, investors may begin to view Tesla as a juggernaut that can't be stopped no matter the distractions. That's what I'm wishfully thinking at least. On the other hand, if Tesla's performance disappoints in any way, it'll feed the narrative that a distracted Elon is dragging down Tesla. Whether or not you agree with this, clearly investors overall are concerned about this. Just look at the SP pop a few months back when Elon tried to back out of buying Twitter.
I would hardly call Elon's mission to restore free speech to our democracy a "side hustle".
 
We have people cancelling their purchases left and right here in Germany, and loads of Twitter cancellations. Me included.

People cancelling their Twitter accounts is easy. They probably hardly used them. But how do you know about it? Did they tell you on Twitter? I’ve seen some of them too. I find it amazing that people who suddenly despise a social medium are stil using that same medium. It sounds more like a statement, without any accounts actually being cancelled. Don’t they want to stick around to watch the widely prophesied crash?

And sorry for calling you out, but I’m having a hard time believing the claim about Tesla order cancellations in Germany. A car purchase is a serious decision which takes time, preparation, money (deposit, financing), planning (trade-in or sale of used car), etc, etc. It’s not a subscription to a magazine that you didn’t read much anyway. And all that is being given up only because Elon is making changes at Twitter?

Can you substantiate who these people are, what model they ordered and how far along their delivery timelines were? And how do you know them?
 
People cancelling their Twitter accounts is easy. They probably hardly used them. But how do you know about it? Did they tell you on Twitter? I’ve seen some of them too. I find it amazing that people who suddenly despise a social medium are stil using that same medium. It sounds more like a statement, without anything actually being cancelled.

And sorry, I’m having a hard time believing your claim about Tesla order cancellations in Germany. A car purchase is a serious decision which takes time, preparation, money (deposit, financing), planning (trade-in or sale of used car), etc, etc. It’s not a subscription to a magazine that you didn’t read much anyway. Can you substantiate who these people are, what model they ordered and how far along their delivery timelines were? And how do you know these people?

I have a neighbor who's going to buy an EV in the next month or two. She respects me as an informed person on cars, and took a ride in my Tesla. She loved it, but confessed that she simply could not buy a Tesla product now based on Elon's recent behavior. I'm guiding her to a Mercedes EQC/EQE. That is a single example, but it is 100% a lost sale (and ongoing relationship) for Tesla based on Elon's adventures in social media and US politics.

There will be plenty of demand (for now) to cover that lost potential sale. But there is genuine brand damage being done - the only question is how large it is. Probably mostly within the US market, and only a portion of that.
 
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- Some of the ‘symptoms’ are not even present in Elon. There is no lack of focus, he is in fact extremely focussed (on Twitter). And there is no inability to solve problems or complete tasks, as far as any of us can tell.

I think making such an layman’s diagnosis is a very slippery slope and should be avoided.
How do you know? You’re as unqualified to assert that there’s no lack of focus or an inability to solve problems or complete tasks as the poster is to make a medical diagnosis.
 
I have a neighbor who's going to buy an EV in the next month or two. She respects me as an informed person on cars, and took a ride in my Tesla. She loved it, but confessed that she simply could not buy a Tesla product now based on Elon's recent behavior. I'm guiding her to a Mercedes EQC. That is a single example, but it is 100% a lost sale (and ongoing relationship) for Tesla based on Elon's adventures in social media and US politics.

There will be plenty of demand (for now) to cover that lost potential sale. But there is genuine brand damage being done - the only question is how large it is. Probably mostly within the US market, and only a portion of that.

My question concerned Germany, not the US with its strong political division.

And cases like the one of your neighbor have already been discussed before. You live in very Democratic leaning Santa Barbara. That potential loss of a sale could be compensated by an extra sale in Florida, which voted overwhelmingly for Republican Ron DeSantis.
 
How do you know? You’re as unqualified to assert that there’s no lack of focus or an inability to solve problems or complete tasks as the poster is to make a medical diagnosis.

I was not making a diagnosis of mental sanity, I was only saying that no one here is qualified or able to make diagnosis of a degrading mental sanity.
 
My question concerned Germany, not the US with its strong political division.

Yes I specifically pointed that my example was US, and that most of the brand damage is likely restricted to that region since Elon's twitter rants are largely US-centric despite Twitter being a global platform.

In Germany? I doubt it'll have hardly any impact at all, and even less in Asia where there are local social platforms that often exceed or supplant Twitter.
 
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I would hardly call Elon's mission to restore free speech to our democracy a "side hustle".

Free speech hasn't left our democracy - the 1st Amendment is still there. What private companies allow/forbid on their platforms has nothing to do with free speech, it's about making their users and advertisers happy so they continue to support the platform.
 
My question concerned Germany, not the US with its strong political division.

And cases like the one of your neighbor have already been discussed before. You live in very Democratic leaning Santa Barbara. That potential loss of a sale could be compensated by an extra sale in Florida, which voted overwhelmingly for Republican Ron DeSantis.
Oh I see, since you are a moderator you can talk about politics anytime you want. Moderators are biased, just liked the rest of us. I get it but, please do not present yourselves as unbiased, because you all obviously are and it's obvious to most people. On TMC , you can still cancel people. Have at it.
 
I think it is a bad idea to make a remote ‘diagnosis’ of Elon’s health because:

- Everyone here lacks the proper medical background (having a family member - regretfully - suffer from a certain disease does not provide that background)
- Even for a trained medical professional in the right field it is impossible to make such a diagnosis based on what can be seen in tweets, interviews and actions, without ever having personally spoken to or observed that person.
- Some of the ‘symptoms’ are not even present in Elon. There is no lack of focus, he is in fact extremely focussed (on Twitter). And there is no inability to solve problems or complete tasks, as far as any of us can tell.

I think making such an layman’s diagnosis is a very slippery slope and should be avoided.
Absolutely. That is why I said, like you did, that that there's lots of overlap with completely unrelated situations.

Thank you for reinforcing that.
 
Free speech hasn't left our democracy - the 1st Amendment is still there. What private companies allow/forbid on their platforms has nothing to do with free speech, it's about making their users and advertisers happy so they continue to support the platform.

I agree. We keep explaining: Free Speech and the 1st amendment is about the GOVERNMENT not being able to ban public expression of citizens.

Right here, on this board, we have a social media platform run by a private company that has ALL KINDS of restrictions on free speech in the form posting and conduct rules. This is not a violation of "free speech" - it's simply what TMC has decided they want to require for posting on THEIR forums, and honestly the diligent efforts of the moderators here make this one of the more reasoned and civil forums around, even though I myself sometimes get hit with an "excessive snippiness" quarantine.

Can we please quit pretending Elon is actually fighting a war to save "free speech" in America? He wants one specific platform to be less moderated so it can host his pet conspiracy posts (when he doesn't end up having to delete them himself). That's it.
 
Oh I see, since you are a moderator you can talk about politics anytime you want. Moderators are biased, just liked the rest of us. I get it but, please do not present yourselves as unbiased, because you all obviously are and it's obvious to most people. On TMC , you can still cancel people. Have at it.

I’m certainly not unbiased, and never claimed to be. One of the conditions when agreeing to become a moderator is that I could still participate in the discussions. I try not to let my personal opinion affect my decisions, but I’m not perfect. Anyone who is may throw the first stone.

I don’t believe that what I wrote about the missed order in a more liberal state being compensated by an extra order in a more conservative state is the kind of ‘toxic politics’ that we’re trying to avoid. That’s more the accusational type of politics, the denigrating remarks, the insults about things being woke or being alt-right. I hope you can see the difference.

If you want to continue this discussion please take it to PM, so we don’t bother others with it.
 
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