Krugerrand
Meow
Name names because I know you aren’t referring to me as I’ve never said any of that.
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Elon & Twitter
- Thread starter Buckminster
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bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
So there is something wrong with people being accountable for the work they are supposed to do?
I've fired multiple people in the past month, people that were just hired, because they thought it was acceptable to watch other people do a job that they were hired to do.
Sorry, but employment is a contract, you are paid to do a job. It is perfectly right and acceptable for a boss to go to an employee and ask for a progress report.
Thanks for coming over strictly to try to get the thread closed down. I’ve been expecting this sort of thing.
What would be useful here is an ongoing, rational discussion with OT, non-political, non-emotional contributions.
There seem to be other threads for ongoing Elon worship. Frankly I fully expect people who think he can do no wrong to continue to bring up politics etc in an effort to end the discussion of his actions at Twitter, which inarguably have not gone well.
Yet.
He may still pull it out. His actions to make the operation leaner might eventually bear fruit. Who knows.
What I do know is there is no possible way to measure the effects his attention on Twitter have had on operations or sales at Tesla, or on TSLA pricing. Objectively, it has hurt. There’s no question. But how much may be major, moderate or minor.
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The admins don’t want one and there would likely be a moderation shortfall (there already is). It’s the admins’ site to run so that’s all the reason needed.
But surely you don't make your employees fill out a performance review every month?
bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
I actually have monthly reviews on their projects. So effectively, they are the same thing. Potato, poTato.
Plus, the Tweet specifically said "1 page description of April accomplishments + new product ideas".
What about that is unreasonable?
Im going to re surface this quote I made earlier, just so its front and center, because I am sure some people are going to wonder what happened to their post or why other actions on their account were taken.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Do you agree Elon spending more time on Tesla would be beneficial to Tesla? If so, how can it not hurt Tesla when he spends less time on Tesla? You can argue how much, but it's not zero impact. As for the other examples, no one is claiming him spending the time in his other ventures wouldn't distract him from Tesla in some way. The major difference why far less people care is there is little to no negative PR from those ventures (instead it's the opposite, there's a lot of good PR especially from SpaceX). From Twitter, instead there is undoubtedly a lot of negative PR.
The prices might not be unprecedented, but the price drop was, which shows Tesla had to pull some major demand levers. If you add in rapid inflation, the tax credit Tesla now qualifies for, the equivalent prices are likely lower than they were in the past, even if you want to use that standard.
Actually, it's pretty easy to demonstrate if Twitter didn't hurt Tesla: if things continued on its previous path or was even better without Tesla needing to pull huge demand levers. That unfortunately didn't happen, so it's hard to prove either way. One side will claim that the demand levers would have needed to be deployed regardless, due to the economy. The other will claim Twitter at least played some role in that.
Well it can be argued how much impact, but I think it's hard to argue selling almost 100 million shares had no negative impact on the stock or that if Elon had to do another round, it wouldn't negatively impact the stock price.
Alright, maybe we're interpreting that statement a little differently. Maybe it is just a status update. But a page long? That seems like a bit much.
bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
Norbert
TSLA will win
Personally I'm more worried that an engagement with Twitter and its politics will lead to a lack of attention/resource allocation for environmental questions, as opposed to the bottom line of Tesla (by pushing FSD or so).
So Tesla Solar or Tesla battery tech, for examle. (Though Tesla Lithium seemed to be a positive announcement in that sense).
So Tesla Solar or Tesla battery tech, for examle. (Though Tesla Lithium seemed to be a positive announcement in that sense).
So now we are quibbling about the response size. Whatever actions Musk takes to run Twitter is basically put into one of those buckets: autocrat, feminist, narcissist ....
Basically what 'a page' means to me is: Don't write huge stories that run into multiple pages. Be descriptive but succinct enough that both the accomplishments and ideas do not go more than a page.
This is Elon we're talking about. Make that a 69 point font.
JohnSnowNW
Active Member
Yes, but Elon had, gloriously, stayed mostly away from politics for the ~9 years prior...
From the CNBC interview, when Musk was asked essentially whether the stuff he Tweets etc is hurting Tesla and Twitter:
MUSK: (After LONG pause) There’s a scene in The Princess Bride – great movie – where he [Montoya] confronts the person who killed his father. And he says, ‘Offer me money. Offer me power. I don’t care,’” said Musk.
INTERVIEWER: So you don’t care.
MUSK: I’ll say what I want to say. And if the consequence of that is losing money, then so be it.
Obviously the problem with this is, it’s not just his money that’s lost. He clearly doesn’t believe he has a fiduciary duty to the shareholders, or a duty to “the mission."
And while wording things that way sounds brave and heroic -- he is literally comparing himself to a hero -- the truth is he always HAS vast amounts of money and power, so the notion he’s willing to sacrifice some of it to pop off about conspiracies etc just sounds weak.
MUSK: (After LONG pause) There’s a scene in The Princess Bride – great movie – where he [Montoya] confronts the person who killed his father. And he says, ‘Offer me money. Offer me power. I don’t care,’” said Musk.
INTERVIEWER: So you don’t care.
MUSK: I’ll say what I want to say. And if the consequence of that is losing money, then so be it.
Obviously the problem with this is, it’s not just his money that’s lost. He clearly doesn’t believe he has a fiduciary duty to the shareholders, or a duty to “the mission."
And while wording things that way sounds brave and heroic -- he is literally comparing himself to a hero -- the truth is he always HAS vast amounts of money and power, so the notion he’s willing to sacrifice some of it to pop off about conspiracies etc just sounds weak.
The first principal here is that Twitter, if it stands for anything fundamentally stands for the proposition that a tweet by Elon is on the same footing as the 70,000 responses or whatever by whoever happens to be at a keyboard.
Twitter stands for the proposition that we no longer live in a world (no kidding) of physical "letters to the editor" where even the letters disagreeing with the publication are selected and number in the less then ten. Its not like in letters to the editor, or any feedback, the publication simply published every single bit of feedback.
That's why Elon buys it in response to blocking of whatever he didn't like blocked, he likes a platform where everyone weighs in.
So, although it has nothing to do with the Princess Bride, (it was close but not quite, Musk could have said, "offer me money, offer me power, but can you offer me the option to tweet out whatever the f I want, at any time of day, with no moderation? You can't? Then I am buying the company.") it does illustrate why we are at 16k posts without much to show for it.
Basically its because none of the people on this board appear to be addicted to twitter, only Electroman seems to be as in favor as Musk is of the idea that everyone is lying so the best thing is to have 70K uninformed doofuses fact check posts from official sources, but frankly Electroman and Musk seem to be in total alignment.
If you think that the sheer volume of Twitter comments provides some sort of way to a consensus, well, that's it. Really, nothing more to discuss.
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I will say it again. It is not the comment of a thousand average joe that really matters. That is either humor or noise to me. For me it is the opinion of individuals that are public figures or subject matter experts that matters.
I disagree with 90% of what AOC and 100% of Ilhan say. And probably 50% of Tucker & DeSantis. And most of Bernie and ilk I disagree. BUT I want to know what they say on a specific issue. Similarly there are other people I sometimes agree with, like Scott Adams. And Musk, I disagree only on a few things..
When it comes to Tesla & market in general I have a host of people who have built their credibility over the years (Sawyer Meritt, Rob Maurer, etc..) and quite a few scumbag journalists. I am interested in knowing what they all say on a specific matter. The rest I ignore.
This is the approach anyone should take. Start with a bunch of personalities that you agree and disagree with and then over a period of time, you will also stumble upon other average joes - a handful of them - who are quite knowledgeable and honest in their opinion, and seem quite credible. I pay more attention to some of those people than the celebrities.
This is a better way to stay informed than drinking the media cool-aid
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Tiger
Active Member
To me it sounds great. Fire anyone who makes excuses or who overappreciates their accomplishments, as these are usually permanent character flaws.
Its just what we are used to.
As a lawyer, all the people you named, all politicians, all celebrities, and especially all media outlets, both traditional or not, are not "the source" of any information. Let me put it another way, with what I am used to, its only a minimal amount of diligence to get to the actual source.
Today for example, the US Supreme Court issued two rulings on Circular 230 cases, dealing with Google's liability. Since I can easily get the actual ruling, i know that any "report" of today's cases is someone who read the ruling. In the case of Twitter its a tweet of someone who may have read what someone wrote about the ruling. And then, with Twitter, its what someone thought about what someone wrote about what someone else wrote about the ruling.
Twitter easily gets you like five levels removed from the actual source!!. And to no benefit. Read the actual source.
Anyway, that's why I am not on Twitter, and other people are. It would never occur to me that the people you named above are the source of anything, even a piece of legislation drafted supposedly by a member of congress is actually drafted by staff, its a fair bet that most congress people don't even read what they are voting on. Why would I care about their summary?
That's the crux of the difference of opinion. As an investor, I care very much about actions Elon takes with respect to Tesla. I care quite a bit less about 30% of the stuff he says is going to happen at Tesla, as he has a record of being overly optimistic. I don't care at all about Elon's opinion of the crime/homeless situation in San Francisco. I mean, were are not pals. He doesn't even live in San Francisco. If I want to find out how San Francisco is doing, I can, like go there, or I can find many sources which are not celebrities or politicians to see what data there is.
But he clearly loves the fact that people read his tweets about crime in SF. He loves it so much he bought the whole company!
The TMC "investor's roundtable" is by far the best source on the company. By far. It consists of people who consistantly post links to direct sourcing of data. Sometimes its posts on other opinions, but the value is really that the TMC posters care enough to do some research prior to posting. On that forum you had guys tracking shipments of Teslas on RORO ships docking in Europe!! With the dates the ships left port and GPS coordinates!
The TMC Energy products forum has actual licensed electricians posting on the technical requirements of systems!
Twitter is just too far removed from the actual sourcing for me. Obviously, reasonable people can differ on this. That much I have learned here.
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