Elon, Where is the FSD features you promised?

[Doug_G]

I was sure it did - and then saw posts that said it didn't. So I paid close attention. It can't possibly be 'just lucky' or really accurate geo info ... because I have watched repeatedly as the speed shows as 55 ... 55 ... and boom, I pass the sign and it's 65 as it should be. Right on the money. Again and again. On my non-California windy mountain roads and open freeways.

edit: Perhaps a good test would be to have an accomplice cover a speed sign, drive past ... and then uncover and drive past. But local law enforcement would likely frown upon that activity.

It's just the database. The road our office is on goes through a residential area. The speed limit is 50 kph. Until the last software update, the autopilot thought the limit was 80 kph! There are plenty of signs. As of the latest update, it doesn't indicate any limit.

 

[_jal_]

And wait a minute, @calisnow, you're driving all the way from Madison to Chicago for a haircut?? I'll post more video and photos of my AP2 anomalies if you post a photo of your hair after that haircut!

 

[Doug_G]

Or maybe it is worrying that he has to be that involved with it. Great as Elon, he is not an AI specialist nor a super programmer that is actually going to make a difference in the actual implementation. So what is he spending time on? Like one of the most negative interpretations could be that the autopilot team is not happy with releasing certain stuff because it simply is not yet fool-proof enough and Elon is mostly there to override their judgment because he needs features on the market sooner rather than later. When Chris Lattner left, that's something you could read between the lines in his (deleted) debriefing in his CV update.

Yeah I totally grok that. I'm sure there are pluses and minuses. On the plus side:

• Autopilot clearly has the full attention and support of senior management.
• Elon is a very smart and creative guy, and he has an exceptionally clear and rational way of thinking.

On the minus side:

• Modern AI deep learning systems are a very complex topic, which would require a serious effort to get up to speed on.
• Elon no doubt has personal biases re the correct approach, and he may tend to override other people's judgement.

That said,

• There is clear evidence of situations where he has, perhaps reluctantly on occasion, been convinced by others to change course (e.g. he freely admits that he was convinced by other Tesla management to base Model Y on the 3 platform instead of his original plan.) That's good because it means his ego isn't in the driver's seat; when he believes something, it's a rational choice not bullheadedness.

Overall I think it's a good thing.

 

[calisnow]

And wait a minute, @calisnow, you're driving all the way from Madison to Chicago for a haircut?? I'll post more video and photos of my AP2 anomalies if you post a photo of your hair after that haircut!

I may be forgiving of some AP2 errors but I am really, really - REALLY picky about haircuts.

 

[calisnow]

and @_jal_ sure I'll post pics lol - from shaggy overgrown mess to clean cut nerd boy lol. Not being from these parts I didn't know who to trust - figured a big name in Chicago would at least not f*ck it all up. And dude - I'm not driving just from Madison - I'm driving for the haircut all the way from central Wisconsin first - 250 miles lol. Thank goodness for autopilot!! The next week I'm driving 200 miles west to Minneapolis just to see Dunkirk projected on 70mm film IMAX. Long live free supercharging!

 

[Doug_G]

Viewed as an engineer sitting in the driver's seat and having no visibility into the code, some thoughts on the technical state of AP2:

• I'm fairly impressed by the system's ability to detect lane markings. In some poor visibility situations it does better than I do. But of course that isn't universally true, and it has particular trouble when there are conflicting markings (e.g. blacked out old lines). I'd say that capability is fairly advanced but of course can be further refined.
• That said, the system is still looking very close to the car. If the painted line dodges right by two feet, the lines painted on the display show a hard right going into the distance. If you want to be smooth, you need to look ahead, and the farther the better (basic race car driving skills!). If you want to be safe, again, looking ahead is important.
• I'm not nearly as positive about the heuristics for lane following. It tends to follow the right-hand line, which at least on local roads is somewhat less reliable. Often there isn't one so it's just seeing the pavement edge or curb. Merge lanes and exits are on the right. The line down the middle of the road should get some importance!
• The "servo control" part of the algorithm is still immature. It looks to be very sequential; the brains basically try to recognize where the lines are, and the servo slavishly follows that. When going across a gap in the lines, it would make sense for the system to just go straight because the lines tend to reappear on the other side of the intersection, yet it tends to hunt around all over the place. Again looking further ahead would really help, but simply deciding that the lines are temporarily absent and continuing the previous vector would work a lot better.
• It's odd that it sometimes brakes hard for parked cars, yet doesn't recognize cars stopped in front of you unless it sees them while they're still moving. The admittedly hard problem of recognizing vehicles and other large objects and their relative movements is far from solved.
• I hope there's a huge amount of spare capacity in the processor, because there are a lot more sensor inputs that aren't being used yet.

 

[alcibiades]

I can't believe people are still spreading the misinformation that EAP reads signs now. Strange.

 

[calisnow]

I can't believe people are still spreading the misinformation that EAP reads signs now. Strange.

@alcibiades - to call @bonnie's report that she believed AP2 to be reading signs "misinformation spreading" - is misinformation spreading on your part because you are clearly implying intent to deceive rather than a different opinion (whether right or not is irrelevant to my point) on the factual state of affairs. And to say "I can't believe people are still..." implies you think it is silly/ridiculous/stupid that someone would either have a different opinion or actively try to deceive others. Either way you're impugning someone's character. You just joined - she has 15,000 posts - check yourself before throwing around language like that, it's basic manners and you're a complete newbie here.

 

[bonnie]

@alcibiades - to call @bonnie's report that she believed AP2 to be reading signs "misinformation spreading" - is misinformation spreading on your part because you are clearly implying intent to deceive rather than a different opinion (whether right or not is irrelevant to my point) on the factual state of affairs. And to say "I can't believe people are still..." implies you think it is silly/ridiculous/stupid that someone would either have a different opinion or actively try to deceive others. Either way you're impugning someone's character. You just joined - she has 15,000 posts - check yourself before throwing around language like that, it's basic manners and you're a complete newbie here.

Thanks, cali.

I just look at posts like that and (sorry @alcibiades) consider the source. I know I wasn't actively trying to deceive. So did most everyone who replied to me letting me know just how very wrong I was . (Still not convinced, but I also believe the folks disagreeing. )

This is a car forum & I refuse to get sucked into some drama that someone else is trying to create. That's what I love about the Roadster section of this forum. No drama. Just early adopters and others who have joined the party, figuring things out and helping each other. No flaming. No drama. No emo posturing. No attempts to manipulate the conversation or cast another forum member in bad light.

 

[lunitiks]

No drama. Just early adopters and others who have joined the party, figuring things out and helping each other. No flaming. No drama. No emo posturing. No attempts to manipulate the conversation or cast another forum member in bad light.

BOOORING!

 

[_jal_]

and @_jal_ sure I'll post pics lol - from shaggy overgrown mess to clean cut nerd boy lol. Not being from these parts I didn't know who to trust - figured a big name in Chicago would at least not f*ck it all up. And dude - I'm not driving just from Madison - I'm driving for the haircut all the way from central Wisconsin first - 250 miles lol. Thank goodness for autopilot!! The next week I'm driving 200 miles west to Minneapolis just to see Dunkirk projected on 70mm film IMAX. Long live free supercharging!

Make sure you call the SC in the city if you're planning on charging there b/c it's really cramped. BUT, if you're really going into the city, check ChargePoint b/c there're a number of parking lots with free CP chargers. I'm talking about downtown; not the suburbs. And there certainly aren't the number of places there are in LA, but Chicago does have some excellent eating that isn't deep dish pizza or Italian beef. The roads though! OMG I hope you're driving your 2017 w air.

 

[Reciprocity]

I can't believe people are still spreading the misinformation that EAP reads signs now. Strange.

Is it possible that it can read signs, just not very good so it just defaults the maps like 90% of the time. Since its not a critical function and the system can always fail back tot he map data, could it be possible that this function just gets better naturally over time with more training at the mothership? I havent read the entire post to see if anyone has any thing that would pass as proof, just thought I would provide a thought for discussion. What people actually be seeing is the map data being updated periodically so they see a different speed one day vs the next.

 

[u00mem9]

Good luck going NY to LA without encountering a construction zone.

I love that Elon reiterated at the Model 3 prototype-delivered-as-if-it's-a-real-car event that you will be free to take a nap just as soon as this pesky validation process is complete. Did anyone else notice it sounded like he was reading a cue card held by his handler...I mean legal counsel?

 

[Doug_G]

That's what I love about the Roadster section of this forum. No drama. Just early adopters and others who have joined the party, figuring things out and helping each other.

TMC was entirely a different world back in the Roadster days. You could actually read all the messages posted on the forum! And as you say there was little drama and a very high signal-to-noise ratio. It was a lot of fun.

That's not to say TMC is in a bad place or anything. Sure there are problems, and there's a lot more stuff to wade through, but it's still the go-to place for information on all things Tesla.

 

[bonnie]

TMC was entirely a different world back in the Roadster days. You could actually read all the messages posted on the forum! And as you say there was little drama and a very high signal-to-noise ratio. It was a lot of fun.

That's not to say TMC is in a bad place or anything. Sure there are problems, and there's a lot more stuff to wade through, but it's still the go-to place for information on all things Tesla.

Agreed.

But the Roadster area is STILL low-drama. People don't hit 'disagree' because their feelings are hurt or they don't like the truth over there. People actually STATE why they disagree in a civil manner.

I'd love to see this forum not only continue to stop the 'troll' name calling, but extend that policy to the dismissive use of 'fanboy' and other labels that stop actual conversation by dismissing the other's opinion as simply a result of an emotional stance, rather than based on experience or knowledge. That should be just as unacceptable as doing the same by dismissively calling someone a troll.

We (forum members) build the culture that future forum members use to monitor their own behavior. Just my opinion & one that has been heard before...

 

[_jal_]

Got it! Sorry for portrait mode, but you can see the car follow the tar line and actually change lanes

 

[NerdUno]

Just more of that subjective, anecdotal evidence. Gotta wonder if anyone at Tesla actually dares to drive one of their cars on the highway. Surely it's not just all of us AP2 owners who have faulty radar, misaligned cameras, and frequent battles with 18 wheelers... daily.

 

[_jal_]

The part that unsettles me is that I take that highway home basically every day and am almost in the center lane. I never had that happen until 17.26.76. Now it happens so frequently that I call it out this AM in a post and capture it on the way home. It's not like I went out looking for edge cases. It's totally a regression.

 

[verygreen]

I hope there's a huge amount of spare capacity in the processor, because there are a lot more sensor inputs that aren't being used yet.

Given that Model 3 HW 2.5 got dual gpgpu compared to just one in HW2, I guess they did hit some limits there already.

 

[electracity]

Given that Model 3 HW 2.5 got dual gpgpu compared to just one in HW2, I guess they did hit some limits there already.

Perhaps the conclusion is that the processor Tesla wanted is only recently available. Any knowledge of what is in the newest AP2 cars?

I take this as good news.