JohnSnowNW
Active Member
I can call out someone who is serially/incessantly negative without being a fanboy. But thanks for your input.
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I can call out someone who is serially/incessantly negative without being a fanboy. But thanks for your input.
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
I'm with @JohnSnowNW on this. From what I've observed, the OP is just here to be negative, with zero skin in the game. His only interest in the company appears to be documenting any failure. Strange life mission to have.
whitex
Well-Known Member
Maybe @JohnSnowNW should have called that out specifically, rather than a comment which suggests that nobody should be pointing out where Elon fails, because it doesn't help getting FSD any faster (which actually could be arguable, as public pressure can affect company priorities).
Canuck
Well-Known Member
This part is quite funny:
It's like we're all suppose to breathe a big sigh of relief for him -- he didn't pay $2k to move up which was so fortunate since he's not getting a Model 3 that will come and pick him up when he gets it. He really dodged a bullet there -- phew!
If he actually drove a Tesla, he'd realize that there's no going back for many of us, even without AP or FSD.
I will as soon as there is another comparable EV. Can't wait to bail from Tesla ecosystem after all of their nonsense. I freely admit there is no other EV available that I could tolerate to drive. That will change in 1-2 years I assume. Competition is good for me, but bad for Tesla.
HankLloydRight
No Roads
Canuck
Well-Known Member
Not necessarily if it forces them to tighten things up.
3Victoria
Active Member
Reciprocity
Active Member
Maybe FSD gets released tomorrow, just to make the OP look foolish...
RT
There op doesn't need any help with that. I think he thinks this is an Audi forum as he drops in every month or so to say how bad Tesla is an how good Audi is.
ahkahn
Active Member
Something tells me that Oktane and the others that constantly complain are the types of people that are just never happy with anything. Totally clueless on developmental processes, how much work these engineers have to put into it, and then never happy with the final (or incremental) product.
You've got a car that has gone from zero to almost driving itself in the matter of a year or so. Name one piece of technology that has been perfect right out of the gate, and has only had under a year to perfect (AP2)? Doesn't exist. Be happy that your car is susceptible to OTA updates and improvements. My last car, a Ford, which I was promised would receive updates (Sync v2 and MyFordTouch) had not received one single update in the entire 4 years I owned it, and ultimately they decided to abandon the hardware and move on to Sync v3. By the end, my bluetooth was broken, the thing was buggy as hell, and there was no fix whatsoever.
You're an early adopter on the leading edge of technology. If you want tried and true, you should not have purchased a Tesla. Shame on you for making an uninformed buying decision. The Tesla is a constantly evolving machine that is still in development. Everybody knows that. Sure Elon wants things to move along faster, and honestly, any real developer will tell you that sometimes things look like they're rolling great and then all of a sudden you hit a snag that sets you back days, weeks, or months. I'm fully confident that they will do as they've promised... not sure when, but it will happen. They've built and reengineered a lot of infrastructure that will allow the floodgates of development to open very soon (neural net, new kernel, video mapping, etc). One step back for two steps forward. Hopefully you all will be happy when it happens.... if you don't sell your car first.
You've got a car that has gone from zero to almost driving itself in the matter of a year or so. Name one piece of technology that has been perfect right out of the gate, and has only had under a year to perfect (AP2)? Doesn't exist. Be happy that your car is susceptible to OTA updates and improvements. My last car, a Ford, which I was promised would receive updates (Sync v2 and MyFordTouch) had not received one single update in the entire 4 years I owned it, and ultimately they decided to abandon the hardware and move on to Sync v3. By the end, my bluetooth was broken, the thing was buggy as hell, and there was no fix whatsoever.
You're an early adopter on the leading edge of technology. If you want tried and true, you should not have purchased a Tesla. Shame on you for making an uninformed buying decision. The Tesla is a constantly evolving machine that is still in development. Everybody knows that. Sure Elon wants things to move along faster, and honestly, any real developer will tell you that sometimes things look like they're rolling great and then all of a sudden you hit a snag that sets you back days, weeks, or months. I'm fully confident that they will do as they've promised... not sure when, but it will happen. They've built and reengineered a lot of infrastructure that will allow the floodgates of development to open very soon (neural net, new kernel, video mapping, etc). One step back for two steps forward. Hopefully you all will be happy when it happens.... if you don't sell your car first.
Reciprocity
Active Member
Wow, I'm surprised my Tesla can even drive with all that failure. I must be crazy because it seems to work great, I must be using it all wrong.
Wrong on too many levels for me to waste my time responding to every point. Do some reading on TMC posts starting circa October 2016. I'm not impressed by Tesla's "zero to almost driving itself" (which is simply untrue and I invite you to sit back in a AP2 car with your hands tied behind your back on the highway for 5 minutes) or by Tesla working feverishly to make their blatant lie about their AP2 program into more of a half-truth after 10 months. I am happy that there will soon be competition to Tesla, so you are wrong again.
My decision to buy a Tesla was "uninformed" only in the capacity that I didn't realize that Elon's statements are usually lies and hyperbole, and that Tesla was going to defraud thousands of owners of $100,000+ cars. My bad for not knowing Tesla was a scam-filled company.
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ahkahn
Active Member
I think anyone that's been around here, Tesla, Space X or anything Musk related in generally knows that 6 months Elon time is one year for the rest of the world. Fool me once; shame on you. Fool me twice; shame on me. I hate that we have to actively encourage people to dismiss serial exaggerations from Musk but it is what it is. If you zoom in on that one aspect of him he's an easy guy to dislike however if you zoom the camera lens out at all you see all that he's accomplished, if a little late and it's easier to forgive the constantly erroneous timetables.
That said, things are getting better. Look at Model 3.
I will say this... Given the questionable timetable for FSD, I'm shocked that Tesla is selling 2 year leases where people can add the FSD function to their car. They're likely paying for something they won't get unless they purchase the car at the end of their lease.
All that aside, claiming level 5 autonomy is a whole hill of beans different than some of the parlor tricks he promised on AP1 that never came to fruition. I don't think people would be nearly as willing to cut them slack if they didn't make good on this and I'd be standing there with them, pitchfork in hand. I think they'll pull it off though. Late as always, but they'll do it nonetheless.
And don't hold your breath for other companies matching Tesla any time soon. The brand new flagship A8 will let you look away from the steering wheel in bumper to bumper traffic and forces you to take control as soon as the speed goes over something like 37mph. AP1 has been doing that for awhile now and while I technically shouldn't turn away from looking outside, we all know that in slow traffic you basically get no nags with AP1. It is essentially what Audi is offering and won't kick you out of the party at 37mph.
That said, things are getting better. Look at Model 3.
I will say this... Given the questionable timetable for FSD, I'm shocked that Tesla is selling 2 year leases where people can add the FSD function to their car. They're likely paying for something they won't get unless they purchase the car at the end of their lease.
All that aside, claiming level 5 autonomy is a whole hill of beans different than some of the parlor tricks he promised on AP1 that never came to fruition. I don't think people would be nearly as willing to cut them slack if they didn't make good on this and I'd be standing there with them, pitchfork in hand. I think they'll pull it off though. Late as always, but they'll do it nonetheless.
And don't hold your breath for other companies matching Tesla any time soon. The brand new flagship A8 will let you look away from the steering wheel in bumper to bumper traffic and forces you to take control as soon as the speed goes over something like 37mph. AP1 has been doing that for awhile now and while I technically shouldn't turn away from looking outside, we all know that in slow traffic you basically get no nags with AP1. It is essentially what Audi is offering and won't kick you out of the party at 37mph.
GasKilla
No Gas Know Peace
Totally forgot about the mobile device mirroring! Thanks for reminding me of something else I'd like to have ...
lunitiks
Cool James & Black Teacher
Sure @Bladerskb doesn't own a Tesla, and sure his language is very often provocative/negative. But at the same time he has proven that he's not clueless about the technicalities he's talking about. This combo seems to be drawing a lot of attention when he's complaining about Teslas EAP/FSD-effort.
And rightly so!
As an early AP1-adopter, I know how important the driving assistance system is to my feelings about owning a Tesla. Autopilot is hands down the best thing about my car.
This is why back in October 2016, I was extremely close to pulling the trigger on a new car. Not because of "FSD". Tesla got the disclaimers right on that one. They clearly stated (and still do) that the practical value of FSD is dependent on a third party (government) as well as SW testing and validation. I know - and I understood at the time - that FSD belongs to the future.
What caught my attention was EAP - yes, Enhanced Autopilot.
Tesla presented EAP as a much better system than AP1 - with "new capabilities" added. They still do! Notable features were/are Auto lane change "without requiring driver input", Summoning "around objects as necessary to come find you", and navigating "tighter and more complex roads". Awesome!
I knew that EAP would be an L2-system, so I knew it wouldn't rely on gvt approvals any more than AP1.
I also knew that Tesla had succeeded - massively - with AP1.
Now all new cars were equipped with more cameras, better sonars, better GPS, and a new "super computer" that's "40 times" more powerful than the MobilEye system.
No surprise, then, when Tesla explicitly wrote that EAP was "expected" to be rolled out in "an" OTA update "in December". If Tesla expected this, why shouldn't we?
(@AnxietyRanger you better put up that screenshot soon or I'll have to send out a search party for you.)
Now we're approaching August - more than half of 2017 has passed! - and the new EAP capabilities are nowhere to be seen. Nowhere! AP1 parity barely reached, and something as humble as auto rain sensing wipers is still missing! I think @Bladerskb rightly asks: What the heck is going on?!
I don't see any reason to denigrate people who are disappointed about AP2.
Now bring those "Disagree"s
And rightly so!
As an early AP1-adopter, I know how important the driving assistance system is to my feelings about owning a Tesla. Autopilot is hands down the best thing about my car.
This is why back in October 2016, I was extremely close to pulling the trigger on a new car. Not because of "FSD". Tesla got the disclaimers right on that one. They clearly stated (and still do) that the practical value of FSD is dependent on a third party (government) as well as SW testing and validation. I know - and I understood at the time - that FSD belongs to the future.
What caught my attention was EAP - yes, Enhanced Autopilot.
Tesla presented EAP as a much better system than AP1 - with "new capabilities" added. They still do! Notable features were/are Auto lane change "without requiring driver input", Summoning "around objects as necessary to come find you", and navigating "tighter and more complex roads". Awesome!
I knew that EAP would be an L2-system, so I knew it wouldn't rely on gvt approvals any more than AP1.
I also knew that Tesla had succeeded - massively - with AP1.
Now all new cars were equipped with more cameras, better sonars, better GPS, and a new "super computer" that's "40 times" more powerful than the MobilEye system.
No surprise, then, when Tesla explicitly wrote that EAP was "expected" to be rolled out in "an" OTA update "in December". If Tesla expected this, why shouldn't we?
(@AnxietyRanger you better put up that screenshot soon or I'll have to send out a search party for you.)
Now we're approaching August - more than half of 2017 has passed! - and the new EAP capabilities are nowhere to be seen. Nowhere! AP1 parity barely reached, and something as humble as auto rain sensing wipers is still missing! I think @Bladerskb rightly asks: What the heck is going on?!
I don't see any reason to denigrate people who are disappointed about AP2.
Now bring those "Disagree"s
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Shorty
Member
If he had spent his money on a car rather than losing it shorting TSLA stock then he would be much happier
It was fun chatting about this - if we didn't have food to eat I probably could have gone on forever, it was one of those days! =)
I guess there is a difference between being disappointed with a product that you have purchased in good faith, that doesn't live up to your expectations; and being "disappointed" with a competitor's product.
I wonder how many TMC users are also posting on Audi fansites about their "disappointment" that the L3 automation in the A8 is so restricted in both use and market as to be only valuable as an Audi marketing tool ("we did L3 first"), or why Audi owners need to buy a SIM card & LTE subscription for their new dino-burner to get online services, but still need to physcially take their cars back to a dealer to apply a software update, etc, etc.
Amazing how many call the OP a whiner for stating a fact. Blows me away at how many Tesla owners see Tesla as a company that can do no wrong, even when they are WRONG.
I don't call the OP's messages, or any others like it "whining", I call it holding a company accountable for not doing what they say the will How many times has Trump been bashed for not keeping a promise. How many times have other companies been bashed, sued or closed for not meeting their promises. Tesla is unique yes, but there are competitors coming and if they don't change their ways, they'll be gone too. So rather than supporting their mistakes and putting blinders on, join in and support those that express their concerns rather than bashing them for standing up. We'll all benefit if the BUYERS stay united. Tesla is taking your money just like they're taking the OP's money. All customers of any company should hold that company accountable, no matter how great the company may be.
What blows me away most about the full sell driving that I paid $3,000 for is that my lease is up early next year and just found out that Tesla will NOT REFUND my money if full self driving doesn't become functional before the end of my lease. How can they possibly not refund money on something they NEVER DELIVERED?? If it's not activated in the next 4-5 months, that means I paid them $3,000 for something and got absolutely noting in return. If anyone here can make a logical, legal case that would stand up in court for how that's right, I'd love to hear it.
And then I'll give you my number and sell you my private electric airplane that can be piloted without a license or physical pilot. We're in the finishing stage of development. Right now, you pay $1,000,000 for the plane and another $200,000 for the Tesla tech added to it, to which we hope gets done fleet wide in the next 3-5 years. The whole "I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today", but in reverse.
I don't call the OP's messages, or any others like it "whining", I call it holding a company accountable for not doing what they say the will How many times has Trump been bashed for not keeping a promise. How many times have other companies been bashed, sued or closed for not meeting their promises. Tesla is unique yes, but there are competitors coming and if they don't change their ways, they'll be gone too. So rather than supporting their mistakes and putting blinders on, join in and support those that express their concerns rather than bashing them for standing up. We'll all benefit if the BUYERS stay united. Tesla is taking your money just like they're taking the OP's money. All customers of any company should hold that company accountable, no matter how great the company may be.
What blows me away most about the full sell driving that I paid $3,000 for is that my lease is up early next year and just found out that Tesla will NOT REFUND my money if full self driving doesn't become functional before the end of my lease. How can they possibly not refund money on something they NEVER DELIVERED?? If it's not activated in the next 4-5 months, that means I paid them $3,000 for something and got absolutely noting in return. If anyone here can make a logical, legal case that would stand up in court for how that's right, I'd love to hear it.
And then I'll give you my number and sell you my private electric airplane that can be piloted without a license or physical pilot. We're in the finishing stage of development. Right now, you pay $1,000,000 for the plane and another $200,000 for the Tesla tech added to it, to which we hope gets done fleet wide in the next 3-5 years. The whole "I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today", but in reverse.
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