That is just one, but there are grounds for more. I talked with some of the people on the waiting side and they told me they don't want to sue outright because there's a certain stigma that's coming with it (witness the class action lawsuit thread for a glimpse of it) so they keep trying to talk Tesla into doing the right thing privately without involving the courts.
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By definition a car can't be L3 unless it has regulatory approval. Until you have that all you have is an L2 car with a claim of L3.
The entire point of L3 is to shift responsibility. If the responsibility isn't shifted then it's NOT L3.
This gives Tesla two options in terms of how to release FSD.
Go the Audi route - Wait till it can achieve FSD safely, and get regulatory approval. After regulatory approval then turn on the L3 feature. Until then keep it as L2 only.
Go the typical Tesla beta test route - Release the software, but label it as beta. Allow the customer to pretend like its L3 even though it's really not. Where the human behind the wheel is liable for anything that happens. Use the internal user facing camera (in the Model 3) to show the user wasn't paying attention when an accident happens. Use the regulatory environment as an excuse as to why it can't be L3.
To me as someone who wants true Level 3? Neither path makes to much of a difference to me.
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Drone Flyer
Active Member
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
Your point will become valid once you can buy FSD on any other car. So far this is the only car that offers it
Actually this is the only car that allows you to pay for FSD and doesn't deliver it.
lunitiks
Cool James & Black Teacher
I think you're wrong and nasty calling them fools.
The fool would be Tesla if they think that customers will forgive them for not delivering.
Anyway it's too early to judge on the FSD issue. "EAP" on the other hand... [Anger!]
The fool would be Tesla if they think that customers will forgive them for not delivering.
Anyway it's too early to judge on the FSD issue. "EAP" on the other hand... [Anger!]
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I think he is right in what he said and simply meant to say "its foolish to pay".
At the same time i think alot of Tesla authors/writers are to be blamed in addition to Tesla.
They have been spurting the same rubbish about Tesla supremacy in self driving for years now.
These authors write things like this:
"Tesla is, by leaps and bounds, the industry leader in...self-driving. If there were a close second, I would be an investor. The longer major car manufacturers drag their feet and continue to squabble about whether pushing forward on these technologies is even a good idea, the more time Tesla has to run up the score."
And articles like
Tesla Has An Immense Lead In Self-Driving
Is Tesla Building A Moat With HD Maps?
Tesla Leapfrogs Self-Driving Competitors With Radar That's Better Than Lidar
Following In The Footsteps Of SpaceX, Tesla Will Disrupt The Car Industry
If you read these articles, you will see how full of nonsense is there with no evidence, facts and not one single drop of critical thinking. A freaking toddler will be able to make a better evaluation.
This is what Tesla attracts in writers.
At the same time i think alot of Tesla authors/writers are to be blamed in addition to Tesla.
They have been spurting the same rubbish about Tesla supremacy in self driving for years now.
These authors write things like this:
"Tesla is, by leaps and bounds, the industry leader in...self-driving. If there were a close second, I would be an investor. The longer major car manufacturers drag their feet and continue to squabble about whether pushing forward on these technologies is even a good idea, the more time Tesla has to run up the score."
And articles like
Tesla Has An Immense Lead In Self-Driving
Is Tesla Building A Moat With HD Maps?
Tesla Leapfrogs Self-Driving Competitors With Radar That's Better Than Lidar
Following In The Footsteps Of SpaceX, Tesla Will Disrupt The Car Industry
If you read these articles, you will see how full of nonsense is there with no evidence, facts and not one single drop of critical thinking. A freaking toddler will be able to make a better evaluation.
This is what Tesla attracts in writers.
scratch that i meant Level 5 in LESS than 10 months as Elon puts it.
The Tesla CEO spoke at the Code Conference on Wednesday night and predicted that we're closer to self-driving cars than anybody thinks. "I think we are less than two years away from complete autonomy, safer than humans, but regulations should take at least another year," Musk said. (June 2nd, 2016)
I wanna see @stopcrazypp find a way to refute this timeline
Elon Musk: We Are Less Than Two Years From Complete Car Autonomy
Elon Musk: We Are Less Than Two Years From Complete Car Autonomy
HankLloydRight
No Roads
So that was more than a year ago, so we're less than year away from full autonomy.
Also, just because Elon says it, doesn't mean it's going to happen. See: Tesla Time.
So that was more than a year ago, so we're less than year away from full autonomy.
Also, just because Elon says it, doesn't mean it's going to happen. See: Tesla Time.
Exactly. Elon can say something 100% confidently and absolutely...and still not make it. He's admitted he has hubris. We gotta take that hint. Until the @TeslaMotors account writes their own Tweet with the same information, I'm taking every Elon tweet (even ones guaranteeing features) quite less seriously.
Elon Musk on Twitter
It's more likely that every Tweet he writes is about 75% accurate, rather than 75% of his tweets are 100% accurate. The problem is that Elon writes his Tweets as if he's 95% accurate.
The biggest problem is that Elon's inaccurate tweets sell cars to an unsuspecting audience. The sooner the public hubris stops, the better. What he does inside Tesla to motivate troops is another thing - that's no problem as such...
Yes, but nonetheless because they do take your money people assume they would deliver and nobody else gives the option.
Then there are salesmen who exaggerate the progress and play other misleading tricks, the FSD demo videos on Tesla website and here we are. Unless you deeply distrust Tesla already, why would you doubt them prior to purchase? (and if you distrust them in the first place, why would you buy a Tesla anyway?)
FSD in itself is a feature that's valuable to many and it's also why I bought Tesla myself too.
Exactly. This is precisely why Tesla will LOSE the class action against them. There is literally no viable defense. Pure fraud. Literally stealing my money.
It's like me making a fake listing for a new MacBook Pro on eBay and selling it for $3000. Someone buys it and I just never deliver because I don't have a MacBook Pro in my possession and probably never will. Totally indefensible.
I'm trying to decide what I hate more.
The FSD option in that Tesla is pre-selling something that is a complete unknown. Aside from tweeted estimates there is no official time table from Tesla, or exactly what it will do. I don't see much recourse a buyer has since nothing was really promised in writing. It just says it's up to software validation, and regulatory.
Or the fact that it brought all these people out of the woodwork that for whatever reason fell for it. I don't mind the ones that don't complain because they seem to understand that they paid for the idea/hope for it. What I do strongly dislike is those who buy into something on blind faith. Who are gullible enough to believe a few tweets from someone who by purpose exaggerates. We know Elon strongly believes in leaping with the idea that he very well might fall way short.
It's hard for me not to see parallels between Tesla/Elon and President Trump.
It's as if in 2016 I slipped into some weird reality where everything is upside down. Where my fellow member of society have absolutely no critical thinking skills, and are persuaded by late-night tweets.
The best thing of this entire thread was the death by stubbornness joke. I'm sure I'll eventually die of stubbornness in not accepting this new Zombie filled reality.
Its not yet illegal to THINK yet people still won't take advantage.
JohnSnowNW
Active Member
What about people that haven't bought anything?
I can understand those that are unhappy that they have money tied up in features that have yet to be enabled...I'm just tired of people that come to the site to stir the pot. Surely, surely, they have better things to do.
The problem that timeline is Elon keeps pushing the safer than humans crap. The problem with that is regulatory requirements are likely to put the requirement MUCH higher than safer than humans. Humans are far too distracted these days to be safe, and fatality accidents are going up despite all the new technologies. Which is really freakin scary.
But, nevertheless that puts his estimate at FSD being available in 2018 with regulatory approval around 2019.
Pretty laughable and hard to defend, but I don't see any reason anyone would have to defend it. Is the guy not supposed to talk at conferences? I tend to agree with others that say he shouldn't be at the helm of Tesla. That Tesla needs someone way more concentrated on running a car company.
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