Elon, Where is the FSD features you promised?

[Reciprocity]

EAP is not yet even released. What we have is something akin to 75% AP1 parity on AP HW2, there are no EAP features. So, no, I don't think what we have is EAP, let alone first version of FSD.

I do think the first version of FSD will actually very likely be the first EAP we will get (consider full EAP requires quite a bit more), but it is possible they will continue advancing the AP1 parity branch towards that as well. We shall see how they treat these two code branches (the current AP1 parity "EAP" and the full monty FSD).

My point is: Regulations are not stopping Tesla from releasing FSD. The fact that the FSD product is not completed is stopping Tesla from releasing FSD.

I think you are exaggerating to make a point. I have EAP x2 cars. Its awesome and I am happy with the $10,000 I spent on it as are most of the other consumers who bought it. How do I know this? Because there isnt a class action lawsuit. Just like their isnt one for FSD. Maybe if the 8 of you team up you can make Tesla pay!

 

[AnxietyRanger]

I think you are exaggerating to make a point. I have EAP x2 cars. Its awesome and I am happy with the $10,000 I spent on it as are most of the other consumers who bought it. How do I know this? Because there isnt a class action lawsuit. Just like their isnt one for FSD. Maybe if the 8 of you team up you can pay Tesla pay!

What on Earth are you talking about? I have no desire to make Tesla pay anything. I am trying to discuss, as factually as possible, the current state of things.

You were the one that suggested Tesla can't release FSD because of regulations. I am making the point that this is not the reason why Tesla is not releasing FSD or full EAP for that matter.

Tesla is not done with the software, that is the real reason why it is not out yet (not in any shape or form, except a very limited non-FSD/non-full-EAP branch AP1 parity effort). Not the regulatory excuse.

If you disagree with that, I'm all ears. But that's my point. Regulations are not limiting Tesla, Tesla's software completedness (lack thereof) is.

 

[alcibiades]

I think you are exaggerating to make a point. I have EAP x2 cars. Its awesome and I am happy with the $10,000 I spent on it as are most of the other consumers who bought it. How do I know this? Because there isnt a class action lawsuit. Just like their isnt one for FSD. Maybe if the 8 of you team up you can make Tesla pay!

But there is a class action lawsuit about EAP (and it looks like they are trying to make it apply to every HW2 car, not just people who purchased the options).

https://www.hbsslaw.com/uploads/cas...ens_berman_amended_class_action_complaint.pdf

I assume the HW2.5 announcement has got the firm salivating.

 

[u00mem9]

I think you are exaggerating to make a point. I have EAP x2 cars. Its awesome and I am happy with the $10,000 I spent on it as are most of the other consumers who bought it. How do I know this? Because there isnt a class action lawsuit. Just like their isnt one for FSD. Maybe if the 8 of you team up you can make Tesla pay!

Umm....
https://www.hbsslaw.com/uploads/case_downloads/tesla_ap2/teslaclassactioncomplaint.pdf

 

[boonedocks]

GM’s Robocar Service Drives Employees Around SF for Free

Not just a video. Tesla should feel humiliated, but they don't because they neo-ponzi'd a ton of cash. If Tesla could drive people around, they'd be doing it in tests like Waymo and GM. But my guess is Tesla has no chance of ever getting it to work in HW2 cars. The lack of progress in EAP is astonishing.

We are all (those who paid for FSD)screwed. How can we expect FSD when our cars won’t even be able to turn on the wipers to see what’s going on. Who would have thought auto-wipers would be the down-fall of Tesla.

J/K

 

[oktane]

But there is a class action lawsuit about EAP (and it looks like they are trying to make it apply to every HW2 car, not just people who purchased the options).

https://www.hbsslaw.com/uploads/cas...ens_berman_amended_class_action_complaint.pdf

I assume the HW2.5 announcement has got the firm salivating.

Yes. Every AP2 owner should be offered a buy back due to lack of basic safety features, and hardware that is incapable of them or EAP or FSD.

 

[Reciprocity]

Yes. Every AP2 owner should be offered a buy back due to lack of basic safety features, and hardware that is incapable of them or EAP or FSD.

Consumer reports independently confirmed the safety features and gave Tesla the highest rating.

I guess that lawsuit should be slam dunk, have you guys joined the class?

 

[alcibiades]

Yes. Every AP2 owner should be offered a buy back due to lack of basic safety features, and hardware that is incapable of them or EAP or FSD.

Imagine if Tesla had to present evidence that HW2.0 is capable of what they advertised. It'd be fascinating.

 

[alcibiades]

Consumer reports independently confirmed the safety features and gave Tesla the highest rating.

I guess that lawsuit should be slam dunk, have you guys joined the class?

I own an HW2 car, so I'm automatically a member of the class. I don't get your question. You are, too.

 

[u00mem9]

I guess that lawsuit should be slam dunk, have you guys joined the class?

I can't. I didn't order an AP2 car, because I'm such a great reader. Can't you read fine print?

 

[Reciprocity]

I can't. I didn't order an AP2 car, because I'm such a great reader. Can't you read fine print?

I am happy with my EAP, I dont need to read the fine print.

 

[Reciprocity]

How many here who are so upset actually own a Tesla and have either EAP or FSD? If you are really so unhappy, you should file suit, I mean it seems like there is a lot of distress since you have such a bullet proof case, should be no problem finding enough people to join the class with you. You could probably get free P100D's with all the damages.

This will be my last response in this thread so dont @me.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

How many here who are so upset actually own a Tesla and have either EAP or FSD?

Nobody has EAP or FSD (outside of Tesla) yet. However, to be clear, I do have an AP2 car with EAP and FSD factory options purchased that has a sub-AP1 parity Autopilot software.

Facts of the matter, though, are the same regardless of ownership. You seem to completely fail to acknowledge any points and responses made to you and simply move the goalposts to the next strawman.

Subjective emotions (good or bad) have got nothing to do with the state of FSD or Tesla's readiness compared to their statements etc. - the latter are factual issues that are open to research, but not really questions of opinion.

This would be much more fruitful if we could better document the agreements, the clear facts, and then move onto debating whatever are the disagreements. I continue to be open to try to do that.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

Correct. I doubt EAP, FSD, Summon, FCW, auto wipers, auto headlights, blind spot will ever work as advertised. Get ready to bend over Tesla.

EAP will work fine.
FSD on HW2 likely won't meet regulatory requirement for anything more than limited level 3
Smart Summons - Will be awesome, and I as an HW1 owner will be jealous.
FCW - This one saves people's bacon even with AP1
auto wipers - Probably won't ever work to people's expectation
auto headlights - They'll work great. They work great on HW1
Blind spot monitoring - Will work great, but you might have to clean the cameras occasionally.

The gist of it is EAP is mostly about a lie on the timeframe, and not on what the hardware can do.

FSD was basically just craziness. They sold people on what amounts to an unknown.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

EAP will work fine.
FSD on HW2 likely won't meet regulatory requirement for anything more than limited level 3
Smart Summons - Will be awesome, and I as an HW1 owner will be jealous.
FCW - This one saves people's bacon even with AP1
auto wipers - Probably won't ever work to people's expectation
auto headlights - They'll work great. They work great on HW1
Blind spot monitoring - Will work great, but you might have to clean the cameras occasionally.

The gist of it is EAP is mostly about a lie on the timeframe, and not on what the hardware can do.

FSD was basically just craziness. They sold people on what amounts to an unknown.

A plausible prediction.

 

[stopcrazypp]

EAP will work fine.
FSD on HW2 likely won't meet regulatory requirement for anything more than limited level 3
Smart Summons - Will be awesome, and I as an HW1 owner will be jealous.
FCW - This one saves people's bacon even with AP1
auto wipers - Probably won't ever work to people's expectation
auto headlights - They'll work great. They work great on HW1
Blind spot monitoring - Will work great, but you might have to clean the cameras occasionally.

The gist of it is EAP is mostly about a lie on the timeframe, and not on what the hardware can do.

FSD was basically just craziness. They sold people on what amounts to an unknown.

Fair summary. I agree that EAP is essentially going to be an argument over the time frame. FSD they didn't mention a specific timeframe (estimate or otherwise), so it's going to be on capability mostly (can what they release be considered "FSD").

Like you, I ironically also think the auto wipers might end up to be the feature they miss out completely on (for whatever reason, engineering or patent issues). However, even if they get it working, I'm certain there will be people not satisfied (not everyone likes the pre-AP2 auto wipers either).

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Helpful post by @stopcrazypp - IMO these kinds of posts acknowledging the agreements are helpful to the overall dialogue.

Personally I'm a tad bit more optimistic on the wipers. I find it hard to believe Tesla would make such a rookie mistake to not have a plan ready for that. It probably is harder than they thought, though.

On the other hand I do think Tesla faces certain level of responsibility to deliver FSD that they can't really run away from, no matter what they said or didn't say. I do think they have an excuse on regulation and thus autonomous responsibility if regulations don't go their way, but not on capability and not on infinite delays...

At some point someone is going to look at what was a reasonable interpretation of what Tesla was selling and probably put some pressure on Tesla to deliver or face consequences.

 

[MP3Mike]

Personally I'm a tad bit more optimistic on the wipers. I find it hard to believe Tesla would make such a rookie mistake to not have a plan ready for that. It probably is harder than they thought, though.

They have to wait until it starts raining in CA to start testing.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

They have to wait until it starts raining in CA to start testing.

Ah yes, California car.

Maybe they just forgot all about the auto wipers!

 

[⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️]

Guys guys guys, don't get hung up on 2.5, I'll bet large sums of money that 3.0 will be needed with an additional pascal cpu before this show is over. Tesla is not going to upgrade crap until they "actually" have it working and know what is required. They may even skip the dual px2 board and jump to xavier by the time they get this thing sorted out.

I would not get hung up on 2.5, this path is nowhere near built yet. I wouldn't be concerned at all, unless we start seeing new models with additional radars, at that point I declare 2.0 is screwed, however as long as they are simply updating / upgrading the APE box, we're all safe, well the ones that prepaid for FSD anyways.

I don't know why the people that prepaid for FSD are any more entitled to upgrades than others. We all paid for a car with FSD hardware with the option to activate it at later date. We just weren't willing give Tesla a no interest loan.