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Elon's Mental Health (out of Market Action)

Discussion in 'TSLA Investor Discussions' started by anticitizen13.7, Jul 28, 2018.

  1. anticitizen13.7

    anticitizen13.7 Not posting at TMC after 9/17/2018

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    I am getting some "disagrees" to this post, but I think people actually do need to read Ashlee Vance's book, Elon Musk: Tesla SpaceX, and the Quest for a Fantastic Future. Here are 3 quotes from the book, all from Musk's family members:

    (1) Elon's mother, Mae Musk, stated that when Elon was a child, he would "drift off into a trance". "Sometimes, he just didn't hear you", she said. "I do think Elon was always a little different but in a nerdy way. It didn't endear him to his peers" - p.31-32.

    (2) Both Elon and his brother Kimbal describe their childhood experience of living with their father Errol as psychological torture. Kimbal stated: "He [Errol] definitely has some serious chemical stuff, which I am sure Elon and I have inherited". Neither Elon, nor Kimbal, nor their mother Mae would say what mind games Errol did to his children, but it was bad enough that Mae gets angry at the mention of Errol. Elon won't let his children meet their grandfather either. - p.36-37

    (3) In late 2008, when both SpaceX and Tesla were on the verge of collapse, Elon's 2nd wife, Talulah Riley, described how depressed Elon became. She states: "He [Elon] looked like death itself... he seemed like a man on the brink". She describes his nightmare episodes: "He was in physical pain. He would climb on me and start screaming while still asleep". - p.206.

    I don't think that anyone can credibly deny that Elon Musk has had some mental health issues for a long time. Obviously, Elon has been wildly successful despite these issues, so I don't think they are necessarily a problem from an investment standpoint. However, I do think it is something that people should be aware of, and acknowledge. This is not judgment of Elon. It is the truth.

    Having known about these things in Elon's past since 2015 has not changed my faith in Tesla or investment in the company.

    Edit: I believe it is important for people to know about Elon's mental health, because it puts some of his more recent behavior on Twitter into context. This is who he is, like it or not.
     
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  2. Dan Detweiler

    Dan Detweiler Active Member

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    Wow, that's a leap to conclusions. I think you just diagnosed the entire American population as being mentally ill with the examples you give. Everyone has experienced similar situations and difficulties in their lives. Certainly not a basis on which to diagnose mental illness.

    Dan
     
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  3. Yggdrasill

    Yggdrasill Active Member

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    I can get lost in deep thoughts. Doesn't mean I have issues with my mental health.

    And it's normal for extreme stress to mess with your head.

    Saying that Musk has mental health issues based on this is quite a stretch. And I think such speculation is in poor taste, as well.
     
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  4. dc_h

    dc_h Active Member

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    In spite of or because of? I’d say the later. It might be smoother at times, but I don’t think we’d be talking about Tesla if he didn’t have some deep drives. He’s brilliant, but genius is not a smarts thing, it’s about a consuming passion. Well adjusted gifted may be happier but probably doesn’t change the world.
     
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  5. Off Shore

    Off Shore Supporting Member

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    Hear, hear!
     
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  6. neroden

    neroden Model S Owner and Frustrated Tesla Fan

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    I've had mental health issues myself, and so have several other people I know, some of whom are undisputed geniuses and all of whom are brilliant in their fields, so I don't mean it in any detrimental way.

    There's actually some (disputable) evidence that geniuses are more likely to have some mental health issues -- one theory is that extensive cross-connections in the brain make you more sensitive, more likely to go "off kilter", *and* more likely to have genius ideas.

    Stress will do bad things to *anyone's* head, of course. You probably have to have a somewhat abnormal psychology to handle the amount of stress Musk is under in as successful a way as he does.
     
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  7. Cosmacelf

    Cosmacelf Well-Known Member

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    You don’t have to be smart to have mental health issues. No one is immune to the possibility of it. Having said that, I think this armchair psychoanalysis of Elon is uninformed and pointless. Has anyone here recently spent significant time with Elon? Didn’t think so.
     
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  8. JRP3

    JRP3 Hyperactive Member

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    Seriously. He had two companies on the verge of total failure, being depressed about it is quite normal and not a sign of mental issues.
     
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  9. Matias

    Matias Active Member

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    I think that would be a biggest single risk for Tesla.

    Again I want do make a disclaimer, that i’m just discussing in public forum about a person that i’ve never met and with whom i’ve never discussed even online.
     
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  10. Matias

    Matias Active Member

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    #10 Matias, Jul 28, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2018
    I think in Ashlee Vance's book there were at least couple of people, who said that one particular thing in which Elon is special is, that he can maintain his full functionality better under extreme stress, than anyone else.

    I think it is possible that he is not completely healthy. I think there aren’t many completely healthy persons, who have changed the world.

    I’m happy that i’m not a genius. It is much easier to be average.

    Btw my mum once said “all geniuses are little strange, but all strange people are not geniuses”
     
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  11. aubreymcfato

    aubreymcfato Member

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    I agree with @anticitizen13.7 here: there is no shame of having mental health issues, as much as there is no shame to having phisical health issues.
    I would bet some money that somehow Elon is on the autism spectrum, as we discussed proviously in this forum. There is a lot of anecdotical evidence on this (Vance's biography is one of the best sources).
    If you read Temple Grandin (herself an autistic engineer) she seems to have a mind just like Elon, with an extrordinary visual memory and talent for design.
    I actually think that this is why Elon is so special in what he does (see ou-of-league matematical and scientific mindset, concentration, duress unders stress, resilience, commitment).
    It also probably the source of some of his quirks (his nerdy talk, so careful with details, etc.)
     
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  12. Lessmog

    Lessmog Active Member

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    A popular joke in my youth (NON-PC now) goes like this:
    Three inmates sit in a dinghy on the lawn of the mental institution.
    One is rowing furiously, one has an angling line over the side.
    After a while the third says:
    "I can no longer abide with you silly fools, so I'm gonna jump off and swim back home."

    Good night, all. :p
     
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  13. Zhelko Dimic

    Zhelko Dimic Careful bull

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    Is it clear to majority what mental health issues are, including depression, even mild one? It doesn't mean someone is crazy. Mental issues are pervasive, huge swaths of population have them, and there is no shame in it.
     
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  14. gluu

    gluu Member

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    I would further add that the stress is exacerbated by the constant negativity towards him and his companies. Imagine being under extreme stress because you’re trying to do humanity a favor and being constantly abused in the media. After I had seen Vern Unsworth’s charming interview and before Elon responded, I was quite saddened to hear that the divers and rescue team treated him that way. Imagine marshaling all those resources just to help the rescue team have a backup plan and being excoriated for it and being kicked out of the cave.
     
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  15. neroden

    neroden Model S Owner and Frustrated Tesla Fan

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    Yeah, the extreme negativity, not to mention actual libel and slander against him, is a *huge* source of stress.
     
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  16. Tiger

    Tiger Active Member

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    #16 Tiger, Jul 28, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2018
  17. Matias

    Matias Active Member

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    #17 Matias, Jul 29, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2018
    If we think this from investors point of view, I don’t think the point is whether there’s some shame or not (there is not). The point is, that if there would be some cyclothymia with Musk, the possible depression phase would impair his functionality and on the other hand hypomania would also do it (cause too much risk taking, irritability, racing thoughts, grandiosity etc.) If we think about Boring company, flamethrowers ( I know it is just a joke), submarines, etc it just might be, that he is sometimes just about to be losing it.

    On the other hand with Musk it is difficult to evaluate. If common person would say, he’s planning the colonisation of a planet, it would be easy to say, he has Grandiose beliefs, with Musk it is not so easy...

    But his cut off of investors questions because they were “boring” was not normal.

    Final note; mentall health is not binary condition. It is more like continuity from one end to another.
     
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  18. JRP3

    JRP3 Hyperactive Member

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    No, a "normal" person would have indulged the idiots because that is what's expected. I much preferred Elon's response.
     
  19. commasign

    commasign Tesla Superfan

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    If you think Elon's behavior (whether it be related to personality, mental health issues, or anything else) is an issue, you don't have to invest in his companies or buy their products. Those of us who agree with and support the Tesla mission (to accelerate the transition to sustainable energy and transportation) are EXTREMELY happy with the progress so far, and I'd speculate that SpaceX supporters feel the same way. Where would EVs and the rocket industry be right now without Tesla and SpaceX? It does not mean we can't disagree with the things Elon says or does, or the we can't have concerns about his decisions or actions, but speculating about this personal medical history just seems absurd and plays right into the the short seller narrative.
     
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  20. Paracelsus

    Paracelsus Member

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    #20 Paracelsus, Jul 29, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2018
    I am extremely disappointed to see this thread, or any of the similar discussions on the Market or General threads here on TMC that even suggest that Elon isn't 'holding up well enough'. Did anyone by chance loose sight of the fact that this IS the absolute most intense and most vicious psychological warfare that Wall Street, the ICE auto industry, fossil fuel industry, and all the paid FUDsters/trolls/mainstream media/internet sites/fake Twitter accounts/and every other possible pay-for-misinformation site owned or staffed by people that value greed more than a sustainable planet can throw at him. WTF!!!!!! And I am even more disappointed to see that the constant FUDstream from these Short-fueled sources has managed to sway some beliefs of a few long-tenured folks here on TMC regarding the mental health of THE person that is responsible for putting his own neck and his own finances on the line knowing he would be the recipient of perhaps one of the greatest public personal attacks in business history for his efforts to create a more sustainable future through Tesla and SpaceX. The windows of insight that I have witnessed along that journey that Elon is 'only human' have been the times he steps away from his mission long enough to literally grace us with sincere humanitarian efforts - such as in Puerto Rico and Thailand.

    My guess is that there is going to be a lot more that becomes transparent as a result of all this BS than just Elon's feelings in his tweets. Perhaps any delay in 'exponential stock growth' that these long-standing attacks on Elon have caused have also given the Shorts a chance to make the Longs reflect on why they invested in TSLA.............could it really be only for nearer-term gains, or is there still enough cement in a deeply held belief for the need for a company like Tesla to be successful to create a better future? And how important is that feeling that Tesla MUST succeed to each Long? That is crack in the armor that the Shorts are looking for. The one that lets Doubt creep in. And when threads like this created by Longs pop up that discuss of all things Elon's 'mental shortcomings'.....???..........it appears the Shorts are beginning to win that game too.

    I am not interested in hearing armchair quarterback comments on how Elon could have improved his message. Personally, I would like to hear from anyone questioning ANY of Elon's communication just exactly how they would have held up any better in his situation. Not the minute by minute play-by-play but the Whole Game. Tell me about what it would be like to walk a mile...........or even just a few feet in Elon's shoes under the current barrage of BS/lies/hate/anger/and greed that he faces every minute of every day while he still keeps his attitude positive enough to give his best effort to make a better world for the rest of us.........to include those criticizing him. Tell me about how you absolutely know you could do better under the circumstances he faces. I am sincerely interested in hearing from those of you that are sure you could do better than him every single time after you would have been in his shoes since the very beginning of the race he is running. I know I sure couldn't.

    And finally.........tell me how you could still hold your head up high and how you would somehow manage to make all the right moves every single time when you also realize that the forces working against you are being allowed to generate an almost insurmountable constant attack of lies and hate through mainstream media sources that appear to be facing absolutely no recourse for spreading this false information. Is there any one of us that honestly believed the media and individuals could do this for so long without facing some repercussions in the U.S.? If Wall Street & the Old Paradigm of fossil fuel industries were allowed to throw everything that stunk at you personally in an effort to hurt you as publicly as possible........just how would you hold up? Would you continue to be willing to wake up on a couch at work to start another long day trying to advance a more sustainable future for the very people that are trying to publicly humiliate you every minute of every day............FOR PROFIT?

    I didn't think so.................... Compared to what every other CEO must face, Elon is a goddamn stud and holding up better than anyone should have ever imagined. In fact, much of the frustration that the Dark Forces must be feeling is "how does he hold up SO WELL when we are giving him all we can think of with everything our money can buy?"
     
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