Elon's Model 3 Deception

[powertoold]

I'm a big Elon Musk fan. I even hugged him once in a bar.

But he has said things about the Model 3 that have been deceptive, given last night's event. Let's list some of them. Please contribute if you know of others!

• Model 3 reveal part 2, which is going to be closer to production, will take things to another level:
  • No it didn't. There wasn't anything new. Nothing about Supercharger V3, new EAP capabilities, etc.
• The controls are like a spaceship
  • Not much different than a Model S, except maybe smoother and different interface
• "Oh so little faith" in regards to Model 3 having more range than Bolt
  • Everyone took this to mean at a similar price, the Model 3 would have similar or better range than a Bolt, but it doesn't. The Model S already has better range than a Bolt, but it's more expensive. This is also the case for the Model 3.
• Even a base car at $35,000 will be better than any comparable car in its class
  • Questionable. Sure, the driving dynamics and minimalist design seems amazing. But at 35k, you don't get fog lights, covered center console, ACC?, no leather, basic sound system, no special phone chargers..... a lot of little features missing from other 35k cars.

 

[bonnie]

I'm a big Elon Musk fan. I even hugged him once in a bar.

But he has said things about the Model 3 that have been deceptive, given last night's event. Let's list some of them. Please contribute if you know of others!

• Model 3 reveal part 2, which is going to be closer to production, will take things to another level:
  • No it didn't. There wasn't anything new.
• The controls are like a spaceship
  • Not much different than a Model S, except maybe smoother and different interface
• "Oh so little faith" in regards to Model 3 having more range than Bolt
  • Everyone took this to mean at a similar price, the Model 3 would have similar or better range than a Bolt, but it doesn't. The Model S already has better range than a Bolt, but it's more expensive. This is also the case for the Model 3.
• Even a base car at $35,000 will be better than any comparable car in its class
  • Questionable. Sure, the driving dynamics and minimalist design seems amazing. But at 35k, you don't get fog lights, covered center console, ACC?, no leather, basic sound system, no special phone chargers..... a lot of little features missing from other 35k cars.

This post clearly illustrates why I get annoyed with some of the rampant speculation that eventually turns into *fact* for people visiting the forum. I don't blame the OP for being disappointed. If you read some of the threads over the past several months, it's easy to see why the OP's expectations rose to the level that they did.

Can we PLEASE make sure we tag things with 'this is just speculation' going forward? I love you guys, but you gotta own how speculation leads to disappointment. One word for those who might disagree ... HUD.

And let's not beat up on the folks who are disappointed. Own our part in making in that outcome.

Love,
Mom.

 

[powertoold]

I don't understand why this is speculation. Elon said these things. It was very clear what they implied.

How can anyone misunderstand, reveal part 2 will take things to another level, and he also said reveal part 2 is going to be closer to production (obviously referring to last night's event)?

 

[SageBrush]

"Everyone took this to mean"

You've been busy. Ferreting out ~ 500k people is no mean feat. How did you miss me ?
Oh, and by the way, the Model 3 highway range IS longer than the Bolt on EPA and therefore much longer at normative US driving speeds. Where it matters. But now I return you to your rant, and please accept my apologies for any facts that confuse you.

 

[SageBrush]

It was very clear what they implied.

That is an oxymoron.

 

[insaneoctane]

Your about to get flamed....
But, I kind of have to agree with you on most your point.
Some of the things Elon said can be easily spun to explain the seemingly contradictory nature, but others not so much. For example the "Oh so little faith" comment is accurate when applied to the long range model, but it is a $9k upgrade.... I am happy with the model 3 in every way except pricing. I mistakenly let myself believe I was getting a baby model S for $35K. It turns out it's really $50K. So, while I *might* still do it, that's a lot of money for my household. I was disappointed with the base model range and impressed with the long range model's range. It's just the money thing. Probably good news for me as a stock holder, less so as someone who has to pony up $10k over what I budgeted for...

 

[powertoold]

That is an oxymoron.

No, you can clearly imply something.

 

[calisnow]

I don't understand why this is speculation. Elon said these things. It was very clear what they implied.

How can anyone misunderstand, reveal part 2 will take things to another level, and he also said reveal part 2 is going to be closer to production (obviously referring to last night's event)?

Reveal part 2 already happened months ago. Call the waaaambulemce.

 

[Tiger]

• EAP - end of year, no news here
  
• V3 superchargers - there has been no date about this, probably the Semi will need this, hope to hear more in september
  
• Range - well, eh, can't have everything (price,speed,range, pick two)
• Standard does have climate control for the hot weather, cold was forgotten because California is only hot

Louis Litt must remember to take a deep breath every now and then, picture yourself on a relaxing sandy beach ... nobody's out to get you ...

 

[powertoold]

Don't get me wrong. I think the Model 3 is an absolutely amazing car.

I just don't understand why Elon would say these things, when they don't match with reality. See Electrek's article about reveal part 2 being closer to production:

Tesla Model 3: Elon Musk originally implied orders could spike after final production reveal, but why?
Part 1 of the Model 3 unveil. Part 2, which takes things to another level, will be closer to production.

 

[calisnow]

Your about to get flamed....
But, I kind of have to agree with you on most your point.
Some of the things Elon said can be easily spun to explain the seemingly contradictory nature, but others not so much. For example the "Oh so little faith" comment is accurate when applied to the long range model, but it is a $9k upgrade.... I am happy with the model 3 in every way except pricing. I mistakenly let myself believe I was getting a baby model S for $35K. It turns out it's really $50K. So, while I *might* still do it, that's a lot of money for my household. I was disappointed with the base model range and impressed with the long range model's range. It's just the money thing. Probably good news for me as a stock holder, less so as someone who has to pony up $10k over what I budgeted for...

You won't need the range you just think you will. I have a 2017 $95K S with 215 miles range and I drive 30K plus miles per year. I still haven't shelled out the measly $2K to unlock the battery to 259 miles. 99 pct of the time you do not need the range. 1 pct you do - find a charger.

 

[Tiger]

I don't understand why this is speculation. Elon said these things. It was very clear what they implied.

How can anyone misunderstand, reveal part 2 will take things to another level, and he also said reveal part 2 is going to be closer to production (obviously referring to last night's event)?

Seriously next level was about semi, not Model 3 reveal, my apologies for misunderstanding. Just keep the pants on for couple more months!

 

[zenmaster]

the Model 3 highway range IS longer than the Bolt on EPA

what is the epa highway range for the model 3?

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Can we PLEASE make sure we tag things with 'this is just speculation' going forward? I love you guys, but you gotta own how speculation leads to disappointment. One word for those who might disagree ... HUD.

I still find it quite plausible Elon was referring to something yet unreleased or cancelled with the "spaceship" comment. Nothing in Model 3 is "spaceship-like" (no AP2 does not really fit), however an augmented reality HUD would have been and would fit the instrument cluster free dashboard.

That said, the "spaceship" comment could have meant something else as well. But whatever it referred to, it was not revealed and did not ship with the first Model 3.

That expectation was set by Elon himself. He could have chosen not to set expectations he could not ship.

In the meanwhile, I'm off to drive my AP2 FSD features which definitely arrived a few days ago...

 

[Jeff N]

what is the epa highway range for the model 3?

Tesla doesn't say. Motor Trend article speculates about 225 miles highway. Bolt EV is 217 highway. EPA highway estimates loosely equate to 65 mph so at higher speeds the Model 3 will do relatively better than the Bolt due to lower drag area. Still, Car & Driver took the Bolt on the freeway at 75 mph with A/C set to 72F and got 190 miles of range and I've seen similar numbers on a recent road trip in my Bolt.

 

[JeffK]

Model 3 reveal part 2, which is going to be closer to production, will take things to another level:

• No it didn't. There wasn't anything new. Nothing about Supercharger V3, new EAP capabilities, etc.

I'd consider FSD hardware capability next level...

The controls are like a spaceship

He said the steering controls and system "feels" like a spaceship. People have already started commenting on how nimble it feels, the forward visibility is greater like you are accelerating in some futuristic spaceship with nothing but a touchscreen. Especially when FSD comes.

"Oh so little faith" in regards to Model 3 having more range than Bolt

• Everyone took this to mean at a similar price, the Model 3 would have similar or better range than a Bolt, but it doesn't. The Model S already has better range than a Bolt, but it's more expensive. This is also the case for the Model 3.

He never specified, so you can't call this deception.

Even a base car at $35,000 will be better than any comparable car in its class

• Questionable. Sure, the driving dynamics and minimalist design seems amazing. But at 35k, you don't get fog lights, covered center console, ACC?, no leather, basic sound system, no special phone chargers..... a lot of little features missing from other 35k cars.

Kindly compare it to the $35k BMW and Audi offerings. Even the base model with no upgrades has more features.

 

[kavyboy]

You won't need the range you just think you will. I have a 2017 $95K S with 215 miles range and I drive 30K plus miles per year. I still haven't shelled out the measly $2K to unlock the battery to 259 miles. 99 pct of the time you do not need the range. 1 pct you do - find a charger.

First, I agree with you. However, I've heard the mantra "Range is king" or "Get the largest battery you can afford" over and over again. For an outsider, there's no doubt a mixed message coming from the community as a whole. I don't think it comes from ill intent, it's just that there is a wide range of needs. Neither a Ford F1500 nor a Corvette are perfect for everyone, because the differences are completely obvious as are the matching use cases. With an invisible battery and a tech that most people have zero experience with, it becomes confusing.

 

[Ken7]

I read one review that characterized the ride as 'very firm'. I might interpret that to mean 'hard'. How much do you guys think the bigger wheels would contribute to a harder/firmer ride? In many cars 19" wheels will result in a firmer ride as opposed to 18".

 

[JeffK]

I read one review that characterized the ride as 'very firm'. I might interpret that to mean 'hard'. How much do you guys think the bigger wheels would contribute to a harder/firmer ride? In many cars 19" wheels will result in a firmer ride as opposed to 18".

It does contribute, keep in mind many of the complaints about S/X were from how there was very little feedback from the road compared to say a BMW.

 

[calisnow]

I still find it quite plausible Elon was referring to something yet unreleased or cancelled with the "spaceship" comment. Nothing in Model 3 is "spaceship-like" (no AP2 does not really fit), however an augmented reality HUD would have been and would fit the instrument cluster free dashboard.

That said, the "spaceship" comment could have meant something else as well. But whatever it referred to, it was not revealed and did not ship with the first Model 3.

That expectation was set by Elon himself. He could have chosen not to set expectations he could not ship.

In the meanwhile, I'm off to drive my AP2 FSD features which definitely arrived a few days ago...

Agree. HUD is coming - how soon unknown. Those high profile hires are doing something deep inside a Tesla lab somewhere.