Elon's Model 3 Deception

[zenmaster]

HUD, not going there

Hey it is a useful feature.

bird's eyeview + sideview cameras, M3 offers 8 cameras plus sonar, radar, has emergency automatic breaking and collision avoidance as
standard

You definitely can't compare the cameras that aren't available to the user. The safety features are overall better in the Model 3, however.

Harman Kardon Logic 7 stereo w/ 16 speakers, M3 offers Premium audio system with more power, tweeters, surround speakers and subwoofer under premium package

How will the sound systems compare?

"comfort access" keyless, M3 offers phone BT auto unlock, and keycard for valet as standard

What is "BT auto unlock"? Are you sure about that? In addition to keyless, that BMW also had phone features like unlock, honk, climate, find car, etc.

The above M3 will cost you $50.5K ($35 + $9K battery + $5K premium package + $1.5K 19" wheel)

You forgot $1k for paint.

Are navigation maps, real-time traffic information w/ re-routing also standard for the premium package?
Is there an additional cost for LTE internet access? How long is the service good for?
The BMW has apps like Carplay, Spotify, iHeartRadio, Yelp, Wiki, News, Weather, etc.
Anything on your phone screen can be mirrored to the display,
The hard drive stores and indexes like 10,000 songs with play lists - can also use USB drives and external hard drives for media.

 

[powertoold]

A lot of you guys are raving about the driving dynamics of a BEV, but people who have the Model S and Bolt say the Bolt's driving is just fine, since it's also a BEV.

No one here doubts that BEVs are superior to ICE for smooth driving.

 

[smak]

Except the Bolt is almost half the price of that car in the picture. Bad comparison.

People are saying Model 3 is so much more car for the money, but what they're thinking about is:

Autopilot (+5k)
Better fit and materials (+5k)
Better range (+9k)

When a brand new car is discounted 50%, there's probably a good reason.

 

[hacer]

The base TLX has:
less cargo space
shorter warranty
17 in wheels
no ultrasonic sensors
no remote start
no navigation
it's not as quick as the tesla
higher maintenance costs
higher cost per mile to drive.

And it's waay more expensive since it doesn't come with a $7,500 federal tax credit. When you include that you can get the upgrades package and still be cheaper than the base TLX. 206er can "only afford" the base model 3, thus can't even afford the base TLX. He's stuck with the Honda. Model 3 is the best at its price point but truly not everyone can afford it.

 

[DrComputer]

How is this any different to the Model S "starts at $49,995**" presentation? In the end, no 40kW less than $50K cars were ever produced. They did finally offer the 40kW reservation holders a software locked 60kW version but made them wait almost a year after the initial release. In the end, Tesla is here to make money and they can't do that selling 400,000 $35K cars.

 

[Waiting4M3]

Hey it is a useful feature.
You definitely can't compare the cameras that aren't available to the user. The safety features are overall better in the Model 3, however.
How will the sound systems compare?
What is "BT auto unlock"? Are you sure about that? In addition to keyless, that BMW also had phone features like unlock, honk, climate, find car, etc.
You forgot $1k for paint.

Are navigation maps, real-time traffic information w/ re-routing also standard for the premium package?
Is there an additional cost for LTE internet access? How long is the service good for?
The BMW has apps like Carplay, Spotify, iHeartRadio, Yelp, Wiki, News, Weather, etc.
Anything on your phone screen can be mirrored to the display,
The hard drive stores and indexes like 10,000 songs with play lists - can also use USB drives and external hard drives for media.

Sounds like you have no idea of Tesla's app and internet connectivity, nav interface, how the M3's keyless entry works. Please feel free to do your own research, or buy a 340i, not my money

 

[skitown]

A lot of you guys are raving about the driving dynamics of a BEV, but people who have the Model S and Bolt say the Bolt's driving is just fine, since it's also a BEV.

No one here doubts that BEVs are superior to ICE for smooth driving.

I hope GM hits it out of the park with the Bolt. I've driven a Leaf and it was quite fun to drive around town. As fun as my (sold) WRX frankly. And certainly far less annoying sounding. I'm sure the Bolt is even better. Unfortunately, the nearby Chevy dealer has no desire to really sell Volts or Bolts it seems ("Come see us when you want an SUV or truck!", they told me as I left), so I dropped that idea like a hot rock and am sticking with my Model 3 reservation for sure.

The upshot? I don't think any other car on the market can currently hold a candle to the value Model 3 brings to the table. I also don't think the "Bolt vs Model 3" matchup is anything more than a red herring. In my mind, that's like comparing a Toyota Matrix with a BMW 328i, since they both have gas powertrains and respectively similar bodies to the Bolt and Model 3. And lastly, the Model 3 doesn't drive "just fine" if that's the bar that the Bolt has officially cleared. Motor Trend isn't already gushing about Model 3's driving dynamics because it drives "just fine". I love that the Bolt exists, and it makes me sad that I probably love it more than GM does based on my experience with them as a company.

 

[calisnow]

I hope GM hits it out of the park with the Bolt. I've driven a Leaf and it was quite fun to drive around town. As fun as my (sold) WRX frankly. And certainly far less annoying sounding. I'm sure the Bolt is even better. Unfortunately, the nearby Chevy dealer has no desire to really sell Volts or Bolts it seems ("Come see us when you want an SUV or truck!", they told me as I left), so I dropped that idea like a hot rock and am sticking with my Model 3 reservation for sure.

The upshot? I don't think any other car on the market can currently hold a candle to the value Model 3 brings to the table. I also don't think the "Bolt vs Model 3" matchup is anything more than a red herring. In my mind, that's like comparing a Toyota Matrix with a BMW 328i, since they both have gas powertrains and respectively similar bodies to the Bolt and Model 3. And lastly, the Model 3 doesn't drive "just fine" if that's the bar that the Bolt has officially cleared. Motor Trend isn't already gushing about Model 3's driving dynamics because it drives "just fine". I love that the Bolt exists, and it makes me sad that I probably love it more than GM does based on my experience with them as a company.

The Bolt is really sad - great technical achievement, roomy inside, great range, great price - but sounds like sales are very poor and it's GM's fault. Read an in-depth analysis the other day - so sad.

 

[Dakkor]

The Bolt is really sad - great technical achievement, roomy inside, great range, great price - but sounds like sales are very poor and it's GM's fault. Read an in-depth analysis the other day - so sad.

Meanwhile there a damn 8 months lineup to get one in Canada.....

 

[calisnow]

Meanwhile there a damn 8 months lineup to get one in Canada.....

Seriously?

 

[sperkin]

I'm just disappointed at that stupid LCD screen sticking out. I wonder if the car will still drive it that is relocated to the frunk or the glove box. Hope west cost customs or pimp my ride guys can make a work around.

 

[zenmaster]

Sounds like you have no idea of Tesla's app and internet connectivity, nav interface, how the M3's keyless entry works. Please feel free to do your own research, or buy a 340i, not my money

hence the questions. Not in the market for a 340i. Btw, I don't think you yourself know how the M3's keyless entry works.

 

[EV-lutioin]

I'm a big Elon Musk fan. I even hugged him once in a bar.

But he has said things about the Model 3 that have been deceptive, given last night's event. Let's list some of them. Please contribute if you know of others!

• Model 3 reveal part 2, which is going to be closer to production, will take things to another level:
  • No it didn't. There wasn't anything new. Nothing about Supercharger V3, new EAP capabilities, etc.
• The controls are like a spaceship
  • Not much different than a Model S, except maybe smoother and different interface
• "Oh so little faith" in regards to Model 3 having more range than Bolt
  • Everyone took this to mean at a similar price, the Model 3 would have similar or better range than a Bolt, but it doesn't. The Model S already has better range than a Bolt, but it's more expensive. This is also the case for the Model 3.
• Even a base car at $35,000 will be better than any comparable car in its class
  • Questionable. Sure, the driving dynamics and minimalist design seems amazing. But at 35k, you don't get fog lights, covered center console, ACC?, no leather, basic sound system, no special phone chargers..... a lot of little features missing from other 35k cars.

• Actually, if you do the math, the Model 3 does have more range for the price, so Elon was correct. The cost per mile in the Bolt (238 miles range for $37,500) is $158 $/mile, the cost per mile in the M3 (310 miles for $44,000) is $142 $/mile.
• Spaceship like steering controls is a subjective statement, hard to judge that one. Maybe he was referring to Motor Trend's experience below.
• Is the M3 better than other cars in it's class?

1. Hmm, I can't think of any other $35K car with 8 cameras, 2 radars and a bad-assed computer.
2. And... motor trend said this in their exclusive test drive:

"Nearly-nil body roll? Magic, I’m telling you. Magic. And this is the single-motor, rear-wheel-drive starting point. The already boggled mind boggles further at the mention of Dual Motor and Ludicrous."

"Have I ever driven a more startling small sedan? I haven’t. At speed, it gains a laser-alertness I haven’t encountered before. By happenstance, associate road test editor Erick Ayapana had penciled me into a 2.0-liter Alfa Romeo Giulia to get here, and it feels like a wet sponge by comparison."

Exclusive: Tesla Model 3 First Drive Review - Motor Trend

 

[AnxietyRanger]

For me, my 85D is far, far superior to any ICE car you could give me. Scout's honor. You could literally give me a $250K supercar and I would never drive it. I wouldn't even want it in my garage. Me? I worked at a BMW shop in college. I've had a couple of them, a Mustang Cobra, a WRX and two Honda Civic Sis. Am I dating myself? I think that ICE cars sound and drive totally desperate now. "I love the sound of desperation in the morning", I say sarcastically. They remind me of an out of shape cyclist wheezing and getting dropped by someone far more fit.

Hey, I totally get what you are saying. I too expect to buy BEVs in the future and very few if any ICEs. That said, I wonder if any of you guys ever feel like once you get used to a certain power level, it stops being quite as exciting, quite as important? I'm not nearly as religious about BEVs three years after driving them than I was in the beginning. Just being honest about how I feel.

I think I've driven sufficient number of years sufficiently powerful cars (ICEs too) to feel that way about powerful cars in general. The Model X P100D certainly is special, but not really that special after the Model S P85. Both of them certainly beat most ICEs in effortless everyday traffic. Sometimes even a powerful ICE can feel pretty much like its broken after driving a BEV, that immediate torque and the linear delivery of the latter really is superior. None of that is lost one me, I get it and I do appreciate it. Outside of track or autobahn, and within their range, Teslas are excellent vehicles from a performance standpoint...

Once something becomes everyday, mundane, I just personally find myself a bit more open to other experiences as well. It might even be helpful. Resetting the "butt dyno" so to speak, that BEV can be all the more special later once again. And certainly non-Tesla cars can and do have other redeeming qualities.

Those of you who like Top Gear / Grand Tour, ever wonder why the same guys can like a Golf GTI and a Lamborghini Aventador or somesuch? I know much of the show is scripted, but knowing what the presenters actually own themselves, kind of points to the answer. For whatever reason there is some beauty in that diversity. Turns out, one can actually appreciate different characteristics of a product, even though some other characteristics would obviously be superior in the other product...

It is a bit like appreciating wine. Beaujolais nouveau has qualities that a great, old bottle does not, and vice-versa.

This is just my personal experience. Noting it here to remind of a diversity of views people may have, nothing more...

 

[Dakkor]

Seriously?

Yes. 8-12 months wait if you order now.

 

[Off_Oil]

• Actually, if you do the math, the Model 3 does have more range for the price, so Elon was correct. The cost per mile in the Bolt (238 miles range for $37,500) is $158 $/mile, the cost per mile in the M3 (310 miles for $44,000) is $142 $/mile.

That's faulty math. There are more parts to a car than just the battery, so the greater the range the lower the per mile rate for these other parts. A 35k base Model 3 / a 220 mile range is $159 per mile, so it's not that different.

 

[powertoold]

• Actually, if you do the math, the Model 3 does have more range for the price, so Elon was correct. The cost per mile in the Bolt (238 miles range for $37,500) is $158 $/mile, the cost per mile in the M3 (310 miles for $44,000) is $142 $/mile.
• Spaceship like steering controls is a subjective statement, hard to judge that one. Maybe he was referring to Motor Trend's experience below.
• Is the M3 better than other cars in it's class?

1. Hmm, I can't think of any other $35K car with 8 cameras, 2 radars and a bad-assed computer.
2. And... motor trend said this in their exclusive test drive:

"Nearly-nil body roll? Magic, I’m telling you. Magic. And this is the single-motor, rear-wheel-drive starting point. The already boggled mind boggles further at the mention of Dual Motor and Ludicrous."

"Have I ever driven a more startling small sedan? I haven’t. At speed, it gains a laser-alertness I haven’t encountered before. By happenstance, associate road test editor Erick Ayapana had penciled me into a 2.0-liter Alfa Romeo Giulia to get here, and it feels like a wet sponge by comparison."

Exclusive: Tesla Model 3 First Drive Review - Motor Trend

All that he describes regarding the driving dynamics sounds like BEVs in general. He's also directing his descriptions towards "small sedans" in particular.

Using the base model comparisons:
$35,000 / 220 = $159 / mi
$37,500 / 238 = $157 / mi

Also, for all intents and purposes, the 310 mile Model 3 costs $49,000, unless you want to wait a whole year or longer.

 

[aronth5]

My pet theory is that around Model 3 unveil, Elon was still thinking they could make AP2 work with MobilEye chip on board as a transitional aid (the EAP board still has an empty spot where MobilEye would have fit). That would have allowed them to quickly ship an AR HUD that would have shown identified objects overlaid on the HUD. As, of course, they could not show a Model 3 feature that Model S/X would not start shipping at the same time at latest...

Now that they had to implement everything themselves, and as EAP still shows the identification is not up to scratch yet, keeping that AR HUD unreleased made sense until AP2 matured.

So, by the time it came to AP2 announcement, Elon relabelled it the "unveil part 2" and unveiled the thing without the spaceship controls, because by then it was known MobilEye would not be on board and Tesla was facing many months of implementation work before suitable object identification etc. would be available. AP2 does not even today show objects on the instrument cluster as well as AP1 does, so driving an AR HUD would probably be impossible with it.

Just speculation of course, but would fit the HUD theory.

Except that everytime HUD comes up I always go back to the initial rides at the reveal when the driver specifically said there would not be a 2nd display and we have the video to confirm that. Why the topic keeps coming back up continues to surprise me but I guess I should know better. My expectation is once people get to drive the Model 3 they will quickly realize a HUD is not needed.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Except that everytime HUD comes up I always go back to the initial rides at the reveal when the driver specifically said there would not be a 2nd display and we have the video to confirm that. Why the topic keeps coming back up continues to surprise me but I guess I should know better. My expectation is once people get to drive the Model 3 they will quickly realize a HUD is not needed.

That is a completely fair point, and I know of the video. However we don't know whether or not the driver knew about any HUD plans and/or considered HUD even to be a second screen and/or was forbidden from answering truthfully...

It certainly is possible there are no HUD plans at Tesla, and that there never have been. However I'm leaning on the HUD rumors (going to Model S/X for now instead of Model 3) being true and that the spaceship comment referred to them (until plan changed).

We shall see.

 

[skitown]

Hey, I totally get what you are saying. I too expect to buy BEVs in the future and very few if any ICEs. That said, I wonder if any of you guys ever feel like once you get used to a certain power level, it stops being quite as exciting, quite as important? I'm not nearly as religious about BEVs three years after driving them than I was in the beginning. Just being honest about how I feel.

Sure. I mean I guess I think this about life in general, right? We all seem to get used to every level of comfort, power, wealth, etc. over time. To be clear, I enjoy "quick" a lot more than fast. I don't even know top-end speed specs of cars; and don't care. Generally, I'm a smaller car kind of guy - my 2013 WRX was about my preferred form factor for a car body. But I live in a ski town and drive a beautiful highway canyon at about 50 mph a lot in the summer and so it's fun to kind of feel like you're going fast even if you're not. My biggest beef with the Model S is that it's bigger than I want. And it's not as nimble. But again, it's all about the EV drivetrain for me. But to circle back to your query; no I don't think I'll ever want to drive another car that has an ICE drivetrain. I might not be as passionate about BEVs in the future, sure, but I suspect that's because they will be "normal". Just like a smartphone now. (pick your side). To me an ICE drivetrain is about as fun as a flip phone.