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ElSupreme's decision

Discussion in 'Model S: Ordering, Production, Delivery' started by Kipernicus, Oct 5, 2012.

  1. Kipernicus

    Kipernicus Model S Res#P1440

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    ElSupreme has been dropping hints in various threads about his configuration, so I thought I'd start a thread just for him :biggrin:

    I wanted the white with black roof myself, but in the end went with the wife's preference. It will still look good.

    I think for decision making, each store should have one fully loaded car and one base model with zero options, then you can compare side by side whether you really need option X. We're probably a year away from that level of inventory though.
     
  2. sublimaze1

    sublimaze1 8Dec2012 / Leeroy Jenkins

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    Since we are talking about wife's decisions (and I will try to tie this into "ElSupremo"s decision as to not hijack too terribly), I was originally with the 60kWh, body colored roof, no adaptive suspension. After the Amped tour, she walks up and says "you need to get the pano roof and the adaptive suspension. I like it. And get the biggest battery. So we can drive to Houston.

    <he shoots ... he scores!!>
     
  3. ElSupreme

    ElSupreme Model S 03182

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    So this is what I had planned originally: White, black roof, 19" wheels, cloth interior (piano black), 40kWh, tech, parcel shelf.

    After reading about the air suspension more and more I have decided this is a must have option.

    After the supercharger announcement, before the $2k premium on 60kWh packs, I was convinced that the 60kWh was better based on resale, and wanting to keep the car past 6-7 years. Then the extra $2 made me rethink my value, and I have concluded for me even the $10k was probably not worth it. I truly only need a city car.

    I talked to my dad yesterday. I now think I should get a color. Leaning green/brown/grey. And only grey because I currently have a grey car I imagine is almost the exact same color. I love it.

    I have a few supercharger related questions, that I will share when I get the answers (I don't want speculation on these treads until I get an answer) that may rebalance my value structure. And I think $2k is a value for supercharging over the 60kWh pack. I hopefully can find some answers in the next week. I don't expect the supercharging to be of value to me for the first 2-3 years, when hopefully superchargers show up where I need them. This future value makes my decision tough for me.

    I have never wanted sunroofs in my cars. Because I have had a roof rack and often times bicycles on the roof. There is a lot of wind noise that comes though the glass. I do love driving windows down though. And I don't plan on putting my rack on the Tesla. But with the pano roof I could, and I also wouldn't have all that wind noise if I didn't put it on there. Right now I don't know if it is worth $1.5k. After I test drive the one in Florida I bet I will change my mind.

    I wish I could get a car with the basic sound. Based on what it looks like the $950 for sound seems like a really good deal, I just don't know if the base sound meets my quality threshold. I'll probably skip this.

    I want heated seats. I think leather will last longer than the cloth. Leather is easier to clean. But I much prefer cloth seats. I also want piano black, unless I fall upon some cash and get a performance wit h carbon fiber. Sadly I drove my dad's TT with leather a few weeks ago for a week. And well his leather was really nice! This may be another think the Florida car helps me on.

    I, at this point in my life, have NO need for extra seats.

    I wont be getting twin chargers, as I don't think I will find anything above 10kW for a while in Atlanta.

    I won't be getting a HPWC. I will have wiring to support it, but for now I am will use a NEMA 14-50. I can always buy that later if I want another cord.

    Oh and I like the 19" wheel look better. I will put some better tires on them when I burn through the factory ones.

    Right now I am thinking: Brown, Brown Roof, 19" wheels, Cloth (piano black), 40kWh, tech, air suspension, parcel shelf. ... And that $1950 damned discounted service plan.
     
  4. sublimaze1

    sublimaze1 8Dec2012 / Leeroy Jenkins

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    Well thought out, reasoned, and intentional. One cannot argue with the individual if said approach is taken. Best wishes, and enjoy that ride in Fl.
     
  5. ElSupreme

    ElSupreme Model S 03182

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    I'm hoping for this although replace "Houston" with "Charlotte" or "South Carolina". All I would have to do then is cancel all my TV (which I want to do anyway), and pack lunches everyday (which I want to do anyway), and stop all my donations (this would be sad though) and I could pretty much make up the $300 a month extra that payment would be.

    Wow writing that out I spend WAY too much on TV and lunches. Now all I have to do is convince the wife we don't need TV.
     
  6. JakeP

    JakeP S P4996 / X P6028

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    Great call on making the trek to drive one; if a picture is worth a thousand words, the hands-on experience is worth a million!
     
  7. ahimberg

    ahimberg Member

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    that's pretty close to my config, the pano and 60 vs 40 being the differences:
    brown, pano roof, cloth (piano black), 60kWh, tech, air suspension

    for me the 60 probably gets enough range to get to Portland on a single charge (or short stop midway for buffer), which is the furthest I plan to drive it. Given we don't know the range of the 40 in standard mode, I think there would be times when I'd hit range anxiety - they'd be rare but they happen -- driving into the city and back is a 50mi drive, half on interstate @70. The part that sometimes bumps it up is giving people rides home and running errands between a bunch of places that get to the 100mi mark easily. I had a leaf rental for a week once, and the drive into the city and back had the battery near empty -- with no extra stops. Plus with the 60 I hope to not do any battery replacement for 10 years and still have adequate range...

    I had the most debate on the tech package, there isn't any single thing in it that I really need. The auto door handles opening (which isn't even happening yet) was what I thought one of the nicer things would be, but not worth the price alone.

    On color, I would probably like the brown better if was a little darker (but haven't actually seen one in person, just the color sample block). If they had brighter colors I'd probably be getting blue/green.
     
  8. sublimaze1

    sublimaze1 8Dec2012 / Leeroy Jenkins

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    #8 sublimaze1, Oct 5, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2012
    To me, the brown looked exactly like a milkyway chocolate bar with wheels. As stated in a previous thread, my wife has an obsession with the color brown, and when she saw one at the Get Amped she says, "Honey, what abou ....."

    "NO"

    done
     
  9. ElSupreme

    ElSupreme Model S 03182

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    Just booked my plane tickets. Wife is coming with, I'll finally have her hooked. Any suggestions as to where to eat around FLL or the Dania Beach Tesla store? Will need lunch and Dinner. Had the test drive schedule earlier today.
     
  10. kevincwelch

    kevincwelch Active Member

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    Hmmm...your avatar has a sepia tone. Brown is in your blood. You should get the brown Model S.
     
  11. mulder1231

    mulder1231 Active Member

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    Took some pictures of the brown test car in the Santana Row Tesla parking lot today on my way to lunch. Went back to check the VIN but the car was gone.

    image.jpg

    image.jpg

    image.jpg
     
  12. NigelM

    NigelM Recovering Member

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    See here: http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/9153-Florida-Tesla-Club-Meet-up-Planned-for-Saturday-July-28th-in-Dania-Beach?p=155418&viewfull=1#post155418

    Or here: http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/9173-Get-Amped-Tour-Miami-FL-(Dania-Beach)-7-27-7-29

    Scan the threads and you'll find lots of suggestions. Sorry I can't do a better search for you on my mobile right now. You cn also put a post in the FL sub-forum and you'll get suggestions.
     
  13. Chas F

    Chas F Model S 60kWh #P6396

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    When are u test driving? I have a test drive scheduled for next Saturday (Oct 13) at 2 pm at the Dania store. Would love to compare notes if schedules permit.
     
  14. ElSupreme

    ElSupreme Model S 03182

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    #14 ElSupreme, Oct 6, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2012
    My test drive is at 3:30 on that Saturday. I fly into FLL at noon. I will probably get some lunch and head over to the Tesla Store. I imagine I will be there around 2pm and probably stay close to close. Then some dinner and back to Atlanta that night.
     
  15. Arnold Panz

    Arnold Panz Model Sig 304, VIN 542

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    The store is in an industrial area right off I-95, so there is not much right around the store. You'll probably need to rent a car and be willing to drive a bit (just a few miles). You aren't far from downtown Fort Lauderdale or Hollywood, both of which have multiple eating options. From the airport, if you follow signs to north US-1 that is about 3 miles to downtown Ft. Lauderdale (Broward Blvd.), and if you go that way you can go to Las Olas Blvd, which has a ton of great places to eat. If you go south on US-1 from the airport and you get to Hollywood Blvd (about 5 miles), there's several options there as well.

    Right near the store, the best/only restaurant option is the Islamorada Fish Company, which is a fine option. A couple of miles west is the Seminole Hard Rock casino, which has several good restaurants and places to eat.

    Good luck and enjoy the test drive!
     
  16. ElSupreme

    ElSupreme Model S 03182

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    Yeah I poked around for a little while on Bing Maps. Looks like not a lot going on. I ended up renting a car last night, as it will probably be cheaper than 4 cab rides. Not to mention way easier. And besides I HATE to get driven around.
     
  17. Chas F

    Chas F Model S 60kWh #P6396

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    We are driving in from Orlando about 12:30, will grab some lunch and then over to the store. I'm sure ill see you there.
     
  18. ElSupreme

    ElSupreme Model S 03182

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    Am I stupid?

    I have talked with my dad this past weekend. And I am starting to think I should do everything I can to get the 85kWh pack! ... And panoramic roof. ... And sound system. ... And whatever else I really like. Tech package will happen no matter what, and I am convinced the air suspension will be worth it.

    I have confirmed and know that a 40kWh S will do everything that I want. I know paying $20,000 for the ability to drive to NC or SC a couple of dozen times in the next decade is stupid. But I have this gut feeling that there is more value in the 85kWh than that. (Yes I know about the warranty, and the performance increase)

    My dad made two points to me. The first is that I will almost surely have this car for more than a decade. It won't ever be too small, and if it weren't for Tesla I wouldn't even be thinking about trading my 2007 VW GTI; I still think of it as 'new'. I am not the type of person to change cars.

    Adding onto that point he said not to make any decisions I will regret in 5 years. He convinced me to get the panoramic roof (if I like it), and that I should pony up the $950 for sound. He is also the person earlier last week that told me to get a color (unless I really like the white when I see it), for much the same reasons. And if I get an 85kWh I will be able to do about any driving that I could want.

    The one thing I think I may regret not getting with my 40kWh S is supercharging. I hope to convince my wife to get a Gen III in 3-4 years, when her car nears end of life. And I was planning on getting that max battery and supercharger equipped. But road tripping in the small car, because the big one can't is backwards.

    And today I went over my monthly finances. As crazy as it sounds it seems that I could fairly easily carve out enough to finance an 85kWh S. I would truly be stretching my budget. I was previously spending slightly more than I would have wanted on a vehicle, which is also stretching. But this is a different kind. I still will be putting plenty into my 401(k), and I still have a vacation/contingency/home improvement budget (those 4 extra weeks, when you use 4 week months). And I also work overtime now and again, which also wasn't in my budget. So it would be a safe stretch, but a stretch. I would have to cook more dinners, and bring in some lunches (both of which my wife and myself want to do anyway).

    At least I'm not stupid enough to want the performance package... yet (stupid test drive car is a performance model). I don't think I could afford it anyway, at least not without changing my 401(k) contributions, or a serious cut back in some other expenses.

    I hope to pull the finalize trigger on Saturday after my test drive. So I'll confirm with my bank that they think I can pay for the 85kWh car this week. And I'll try to get detailed pricing, because upfront cost is a lot more than true cost. And those pesky taxes and fees are going to add up.

    Ok, so here is the question. And I know most of this forum is pro 85kWh pack, and I want to hear that. But what benefit does the 85kWh pack get me, other than road trips and a full 8 year battery warranty. And how is that worth $20,000? And if you think the 40kWh pack is the way to go then please let me know. I am pretty much of the 'all or nothing' philosophy right now so no 60kWh with supercharger suggestions. Oh and if you have a leather vs cloth preference, with some reasoning I would be open to that. Right now heated seats aren't worth $1500.

    EDIT: And it is crazy and absurd to me that I am able to afford a $90,000 car. (After the maintenance, delivery, taxes, and fronting the federal $7,500 that is how much this is going to cost)
     
  19. Arnold Panz

    Arnold Panz Model Sig 304, VIN 542

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    El,

    You need to stop talking to your father, or he's going to bankrupt you! :wink:

    In all seriousness, I think this decision comes down to a couple of things (and please take whatever anyone says, including me, with a giant grain of salt because free advice is worth exactly how much it costs!). First, if you truly intend on keeping the car a long time, then spending a lot for it is a lot easier decision because of the true cost of ownership. For any car, the "true cost" of owning it is the total amount spent on purchasing it, plus maintenance/repair costs, and fuel*. So, if you bought a $30,000 vehicle and gas/maintenance cost you $3000/yr and you kept the car 10 years, the total cost of ownership would be $60,000, but you would amortize that cost over 10 years, making it $6000/year, which is a very reasonable cost for any car, and presumably an amount you can easily afford.

    Now take the Model S -- if you spend $85,000 on the car, and maintenance plus fuel costs $1500/year ($1200 for maintenance/tires + $300 for electricity) and you keep the car ten years, then the total cost of the car is $100,000, which amortized over 10 years would be $10,000/year. A big leap from $6000/year for the $30,000 car, but perhaps not outrageous given your net income? Anyway, that's a good number to look at when considering this decision -- given your net income (after taxes) can you comfortably afford to spend a total of $6000/year for your car? Over time the real value of holding a car a long time is that your costs (maintenance and tires basically) are much less than the cost of any new car, and as long as you can manage to keep it running you should be in good shape. Obviously, the longer you go beyond ten years, the more attractive this number will look and easier it is to "afford" an expensive car.

    Normally, we'd have to factor in the "present value" of the money you're outlaying (plus interest) over time versus the interest you'd earn on it, but given present day interests rates, which shouldn't go up for at least a couple of years, these numbers aren't as statistically significant as they would normally be. There's relatively little value today in savings today because it's very difficult to make a lot from that money without taking on fairly substantial risk (i.e., anything beyond a money market account, such as the stock market).

    Second, you have to think about 2 or 3 years from now when you and your family are still "sacrificing" a bit because of this purchase, would you be OK with that? I'd almost always argue that there is no car worth such a sacrifice, particularly one that is going to impact you for a long time. The Model S may be the exception to that rule, but only you can decide how accepting you'll be having plowed that much of your money into the car once the newness of it has worn off. Keep in mind, from a purely financial perspective, it's MUCH cheaper for you to simply rent a big car every time you want to road trip with the family. I realize that defeats the purpose of owning a Model S, but from a purely financial point of view it's something to keep in mind.

    My biggest concern for anyone buying the 40 kWh pack is battery degredation, but we really don't know what that will look like in the future. We therefore also don't know how that will impact resale value. OTOH, 8-10 years from now (and probably sooner!), it may be possible to "upgrade" your battery pack to a 60 or 85 kWh, in which case it would be a relatively easy decision for you at this point to get the 40 and then upgrade years from now if you were so inclined. Again, these are cost/benefit analyses that you'll have to consider for yourself.

    Good luck with your decision -- it's a big one whichever way you go.
     
  20. ElSupreme

    ElSupreme Model S 03182

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    Seriously! No but he basically said the same thing. And right now I am basically the sole breadwinner in the family. My wife makes a very paltry amount working for a non-profit. But is in a position where early-mid next year she will be working full time there. So I don't expect the sacrifice to last all that long.

    My dad, and myself, both look at this car as very affordable over the life of the car. The only problem I have is that I have to pay for it all in the first 5 or 6 years. I know getting the 85kWh is the better financial move over 10 years (as I won't feel the need for another automobile). Whereas if I have a diminished 40kWh battery, and no ability to drive real distance I may be looking to buy a car in 6 or so years.

    So here is the value of the 85kWh I was looking for: $65k/6 years is ~$11k per year. $85k/10 years is ~ $8.5k per year. It isn't that $20,000 is worth the extra range, it is worth the extra years you are likely to keep your car. It felt like there was real value there, but I couldn't put a description on it.

    Thanks for your response. It really helped me find this value I couldn't quantify. Now I have to figure out what I want to do with this value. As I will be paying a larger price for the first year or so as you pointed out.

    And I eat out every day at lunch. And we eat out about 4 - 5 nights a week. We really should reel that in to about 2-3 time a week.
     

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