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Emergency braking and Side Collision never to be approved in Hong Kong

Captain_Kong

Member
Jul 4, 2014
170
23
HK
How far you will go? If you are prepared to submit a judicial review in the end, this may be a good start

  1. You need to make sure Tesla has applied for the calendar (assume that will be rejected)
  2. Then you gonna ask TD about Apple Carplay (assuming TD "tolerates" Apple Carplay but not Tesla's calendar)
  3. Then you go to the Ombudsman (assuming they find no fault)
  4. Then you head for judicial review

You can skip Ombudsman if you have enough money or legal background

And I believe you now see why the HK govt is always so confident in doing something similar to this calendar vs Apple Carplay thing. Either you are too poor to be affected or you are not rich enough to go for JR (if you are poor enough, legal aid will have you covered for JR)

Assuming that the JR costs less than a MS(??), this route could be a possibility.

On a second thought, a cheaper alternative could be to place a full page advertisement in local newspapers (say on SCMP and Apply Daily) with nothing but a crossed out Calendar vs. a ticked Apple Carplay screen shots - this should generate enough snowballed media attention and whoknows that even Bloomberg or Reuters could pick up the news.

PS. Can someone please enlighten me why 3) or Ombudsman step was involved (when the Calendar was reportedly deemed non compliant by TD)? Could one or Tesla at the time go directly to 4) of TD's ruling one way or the other?
 
Last edited:

Captain_Kong

Member
Jul 4, 2014
170
23
HK
Thanks markwj.

Was meant to ask when Tesla was informed by TD about the non compliant issue, why didn't it apply for a JR, instead went to Ombudsman for a ruling (which I believe the Ombudsman doesn't have the authority for interpretation of the regulations)? Was Tesla "too busy" to bother with the JR?
 

markwj

Moderator, Asia Pacific
Apr 10, 2011
4,617
1,246
Hong Kong
Tesla didn't go to the Ombudsman, their customers did.

I can't speak for Tesla, but I suspect:
  1. They have to maintain a working relationship with TD
  2. They realise they have no legal standing to push for calendar under the current regulations
My own opinion is that a judicial review wouldn't do much good. TD is following the law by refusing to approve calendar. The only question is whether they are following the law by approving other functions (such as weather temperature, music, clocks, etc). My opinion is that they are not, but I am not a lawyer.

My opinion in this case is that everyone is breaking the law (as it is written), but that TD is turning a blind eye rather than issuing exemptions (in their power to do so) or pushing for the law to be changed - that is something for the Ombudsman (maladministration, imho) but the Ombudsman disagrees.
 

punter

Member
Oct 23, 2016
35
25
Hong Kong
Are these features not enabled? Based upon the performance of my vehicle since receiving 8.1, I think that the TD would be quite reasonable in delaying approval. With cruise control active, the car is frequently hesitating when passing underneath gantry/overhead signs, and it even tried to make a fully stop in the Western Tunnel middle lane today. when passing underneath a sign. The performance is worse than what I experienced with the previous software. I do love the car of course, though I also believe that all these autopilot type functions are much more raw than Mr Musk would have us believe, and certainly not ready for prime time. If TD is holding back on stuff, then I can certainly understand why. Let's hope Tesla can lift their game, and maybe TD will approve.
 
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tfung

Member
Oct 17, 2015
42
9
New York
Maybe it's not the same case, but I know Mercedes has a similar feature for emergency braking and cruise control for some of their models... However, TD did not approve those for use in HK as well.. Apparently the radar technology employed to enable those features is the same radar band used by the police in HK... so unfortunate as it is, it will be tough to ask the police to change whatever it is they are using those radar bands for just so some owners can have the latest and greatest features for their cars.. even if it is supposed to make their cars safer, etc...
 

markwj

Moderator, Asia Pacific
Apr 10, 2011
4,617
1,246
Hong Kong
Maybe it's not the same case, but I know Mercedes has a similar feature for emergency braking and cruise control for some of their models... However, TD did not approve those for use in HK as well.. Apparently the radar technology employed to enable those features is the same radar band used by the police in HK... so unfortunate as it is, it will be tough to ask the police to change whatever it is they are using those radar bands for just so some owners can have the latest and greatest features for their cars.. even if it is supposed to make their cars safer, etc...

This I can definitively answer: The RADAR hardware in Tesla AP 1 and 2 has been approved already. Frequency band they use is acceptable for Hong Kong.

I think we'll get these features, and improvements to AP 2 in RHD markets in general. It will just take time.
 

mattse

Member
Mar 15, 2016
117
29
Hong Kong
The Ombudsman, yes or no. Ombudsman investigates complains, they may or may not go further and compare Apple Carplay with the calendar on Tesla by themselves. They can have a rather different conclusion if we compare apple to apple and orange to orange (i.e. a car with screen that can display a calendar vs Tesla).

Turning a blind eye instead of issuing formal exemptions will never be accepted by the court. TD will mostly likely be forced to issue some sort of guideline on formal exemptions after JR. Then Tesla can go for this. If the court says no Apple Carplay is allowed in HK by law and does not make further comments, we will have an alliance of major companies lobbying for update of the legislation (hopefully) and money moves mountains. The court can add any extra comments as the judge pleases, we can never predict with certainty what could also happen though.

JR should cost much more than a MS / MX before FRT, but now, perhaps similar. Question is if you have that amount of money, would you head for JR? Apart from money, it also takes much time and effort.

Media attention, do you really think people care nowadays? See the lead in tap water case if you think so. Plus, Tesla is always portrayed as the rich man's toy. I bet the local media won't even report this.

I can't speak for Tesla, but I suspect:
  1. They have to maintain a working relationship with TD

I believe point number 1 is most important. Tesla's OTA updates model requires lots of approval in future, and TD can keep any application under review for as long as they want even Tesla can prove it is perfectly safe or it is exactly the same feature as on any other car already being sold in HK on day 1. It would be stupid for Tesla to lodge any complaint. One can never prove a meticulous assessment by TD is anything but formal procedures.
 

wombat

Member
May 31, 2015
57
7
hong kong
Did that happen inside the tunnel? Or at geofenced area where Autopilot is not available?

Happened to me as well on route 8 nam wan tunnel with cruise control (not autopilot). Tested twice and both times after entry to tunnel around the end of the orange lighting the car suddenly braked.
 

jsiu

Member
Mar 28, 2015
164
12
Hong Kong
Maybe it's not the same case, but I know Mercedes has a similar feature for emergency braking and cruise control for some of their models... However, TD did not approve those for use in HK as well.. Apparently the radar technology employed to enable those features is the same radar band used by the police in HK... so unfortunate as it is, it will be tough to ask the police to change whatever it is they are using those radar bands for just so some owners can have the latest and greatest features for their cars.. even if it is supposed to make their cars safer, etc...

The radar in Tesla operates near 77.5G which is an authorized band spectrum for car radar. Police radar uses a totally different frequency (I am not going to disclose it here). Further band spectrum around 77.5 Ghz is now under investigation for car radar operation. On the contrary, some third party car radar brought from overseas by private individual does interfere police radar, under current legislation, it will be a criminal offence.
 

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