Thanks. I thought it was October/November but I saw other people asking so I second guessed myself haha.
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Employee who sent $30,000 off email was FIRED!
- Thread starter AmpedRealtor
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- Model S
I can't understand what some of you are claiming. Every time I look at EV CPO, there are numerous cars that are brand new, and have discounts.
Model S P100D 5YJSA1E45HF207424 | Tesla
This car is currently $145.2k...it would be $150.5k if ordered new, (Ludicrous mode is included in the new build)
Am I missing something? The claim by Leon, etc. was that EVERYONE pays the same (list) price. That is clearly not true. What's the point of contention?
Model S P100D 5YJSA1E45HF207424 | Tesla
This car is currently $145.2k...it would be $150.5k if ordered new, (Ludicrous mode is included in the new build)
Am I missing something? The claim by Leon, etc. was that EVERYONE pays the same (list) price. That is clearly not true. What's the point of contention?
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I have a general philosophy: don't attribute to conspiracy what can be explained by simple incompetence.
Rewind to Sep 2016. Elon and senior muckety mucks had decided they want to show 3Q profitability prior to 4Q capital raise. So word goes out to sell, sell, sell. Special deals on demos, loaners, showroom cars. Two year leases to bridge Model S reservation holders until Model 3 delivery. The crowd goes wild and pandemonium ensues as orders fly in the door.
I can assure you that the situation was totally chaotic. Cars were being shipped around the country in an effort to meet the Sep delivery deadline. Lists of available cars were changing by the hour in a system was not designed for real-time updates. The algorithm that determined price had a strong dependency on how long the car had been sitting on the lot--oops, at the showroom. It was a surprise when inventory cars started showing up on the lists, also discounted by how long since production. My salesman-oops, OA--tells me they are getting no guidance from corporate HQ and in fact are getting most of their info from this forum. Think about that for a minute.
In my case, my OA said the delivery charge would be waived, his manager overrode that and then *his* manager overrode him. I picked mine up Sep 29th--didn't want to wait to the last minute or anything. The terms of my deal were wrong and I had to wait over an hour for HQ to make one change so the docs could be reprinted and signed. I just sat in the car and took in the scene. Flatbeds were arriving almost constantly with cars from other regions. The entire vibe reminded me of the lines for the early iPhones, with a general sense among both employees and customers that we were part of a something special.
It is harder for me to believe that Elon actually knew what was gong on in any detail that that he did not.
Incompetence and endorsed discounts are not mutually exclusive here
Are you saying that despite a state policy that NO discounts should be given to anyone, including employees, numerous local sales managers independently decided to make 5-figure price reductions? That seems possible to you? (serious question)
Incompetence and endorsed discounts are not mutually exclusive here
Are you saying that despite a state policy that NO discounts should be given to anyone, including employees, numerous local sales managers independently decided to make 5-figure price reductions? That seems possible to you? (serious question)
There were clearly discounts being given on many cars. The only issue I addressed was whether Elon knew that inventory cars--i.e., not loaner, demo, floor model, etc--were being discounted before his reaction.
I find it quite plausible that inventory cars were being discounted without Elon's knowledge given the chaos at the time. It could have been a software error in which cars sitting over x amount of time were released into the pool without regard to other status, which is what seemed to be happening at the time. It could be the someone up the sales chain Okd the inclusion of inventory cars in the lists.
But if folks prefer to believe that the secret Star Chamber met and decided to break the no discount on new cars rule and then deny when discovered, then go right ahead. This discussion has long since passed the point of usefulness.
dennis
Model S Plaid
Once again you are conflating Elon's attack on sales people offering a lower price to a consumer who negotiated vs. one who did not. For example, offering to throw in some options for free. That was the behavior that was going on in 3Q16 that Elon wrote about in the email and put a stop to.
The other behavior going on in 3Q16 was the discounting of many cars in inventory as Tesla prepared to introduce AP2 hardware into all cars produced starting on Oct. 16. Yes, Elon knew about that and no, Elon did not say he didn't agree with that.
Discounting inventory because there has been a price drop is a normal business practice. Discounting inventory because an upgrade is imminent is a normal business practice (clearing out the 2017's because the 2018's are coming). Discounting on an individual deal because the consumer is negotiating is a normal business practice at franchised auto dealers, but is a business practice that Tesla does not allow.
@dennis I am conflating nothing. I agreed normal price-drop matching and also age and mileage based price adjustments are on-going and understandable.
I am saying I believe there have been additional deals and discounts on Tesla inventory, including new inventory, beyond above-mentioned adjustments.
Deals to move cars.
As for Elon, I find it unlikely he only found out about it a day before quarters end and after they had reached their record goal... Sounds too convenient to buy that without doubt.
I am saying I believe there have been additional deals and discounts on Tesla inventory, including new inventory, beyond above-mentioned adjustments.
Deals to move cars.
As for Elon, I find it unlikely he only found out about it a day before quarters end and after they had reached their record goal... Sounds too convenient to buy that without doubt.
That had to be hard to write with a straight face. I agree the usefulness of that discussion has passed...except it's happening again, which makes Elon's story fall apart.
Now we have reached "don't talk about discount club" winks and "talk to your OA, he has a list of the good deals". It's a market. They sell for what the market will bear. Tesla are moving 100k high end sedans per year (ok, X is a minivan). Saturation isn't a conspiracy theory, it's a foregone conclusion.
The supply-limited story was helpful, even a year ago when it was laughable. They got the money to complete 3. The usefulness of the narrative has passed, so let's dispense with the charade. Ok?
Everyone in this thread agrees on one simple thing: If you contact your Tesla salesman, you can get a great deal. For the people browsing this thread, but not making comments, that is the key point.
dennis
Model S Plaid
Tesla's policy is that they do not offer a consumer who negotiates a different price from a consumer who does not negotiate. All consumers are offered the same price on a particular car, which may be a discounted price.
The one area where Tesla offers discounts that they do no publicly state is when they are discounting inventory cars in anticipation of a hardware upgrade that will render the inventory car less valuable in the near future. I believe it is obvious why that is not publicly stated; it could chill sales as consumers wait to see what might be coming.
I challenge you to find an example of Tesla discounting inventory en masse when there wasn't a pending hardware upgrade. The 3Q16 discounts were there because of the introduction of AP2 hardware in Oct. 2016. And I'm pretty certain the 3Q17 discounts we are now seeing are there because there will be a hardware upgrade, most likely to the interior, in Oct. 2017.
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dennis
Model S Plaid
Okay, then please tell me which quarters that happened in where there wasn't a pending hardware upgrade. So far you have cited 3Q16, but that was before the AP2 introduction in Oct. 2016. Many of us believe that there is a pending interior upgrade that has resulted in Tesla offering additional discounts on existing inventory in 3Q17. I can't remember any quarter where there were additional discounts on inventory cars where a hardware upgrade did not immediately follow. Can you?
@dennis Now now, let us not move goalposts. Tesla doing pre-emptive price drops on inventory but not on custom orders bought at the same time is already the kind of deal making they said they would not do.
Seems we agree at least on that.
Considering Tesla is changing everything all the time, buying inventory seems to be a way to get a deal from Tesla compared to buying custom at the same time.
Seems we agree at least on that.
Considering Tesla is changing everything all the time, buying inventory seems to be a way to get a deal from Tesla compared to buying custom at the same time.
dennis
Model S Plaid
The subtlety you are missing is that if I contact the salesman and you contact the salesman we will be quoted the same discounted price for that "great deal" inventory car. Unlike the franchised dealerships, you can't get a better price for that car because you are a better negotiator than me.
I can understand why Tesla doesn't want to broadly communicate that all of the cars in inventory are being discounted because there is a pending hardware upgrade that will soon make them less valuable. Do you think they should do that?
dennis
Model S Plaid
No we do not agree on that. New custom orders for the US were moved to October in early August, before the inventory discounts were put in place. So those buyers who are paying more will get the new hardware.
While Tesla is constantly making small improvements, the discounting of inventory beyond the wear/miles/time formula to my knowledge has only occurred when there was a pending hardware upgrade, as happened in 3Q16. I again challenge you to cite a quarter other than the current one and 3Q16 when Tesla was discounting inventory to "make the number" and there wasn't a significant hardware upgrade coming.
Tesla also makes price adjustments and option bundling adjustments almost every quarter. If those adjustments lower the price they are applied to the cars that are in inventory.
Sorry, do I think they should discount them or do I think they should keep it secret? If they don't keep it secret, it reveals Elon to be a liar, so I guess they should definitely keep it a secret. There are still some kids in the back that couldn't see the stage...
What's the pending hardware upgrade? Does it make the car capable of doing the things it was supposed to do last year? I wouldn't think that would be worth any additional $...since Tesla is on the hook to retrofit every one of those units to meet their claims if and when they have that ability.
You are claiming a pre-Osborning discount? The update hasn't even been made public but is already depressing current values?!
dennis
Model S Plaid
No, that is NOT what enraged Elon. A year ago you got that discount because the car had AP1 hardware and Tesla was about to introduce AP2, which made the AP1 car less valuable.
What enraged Elon was some sales people throwing in options for free because a customer was negotiating for a better deal. That is against Tesla's policy and is what Elon was speaking to in the email to employees.
dennis
Model S Plaid
The likely upgrade is a revamp to the interior of the Model S (and probably Model X) to make it superior to the interior of the Model 3. And no, that does not require a retrofit.
And yes, if Tesla announced "We are discounting all cars in inventory because in a month we are going to be equipping all new cars with a substantial upgrade" it would depress sales. Instead, many people believe that Tesla is discounting inventory because sales are lagging and they need to make the quarter and they buy the "great deals".
I think this too is debatable. Different sales people have been known to find and offer different deals.
Nobody is claiming Tesla is a dealership. We are just saying Tesla does offer deals.
Are you seriously claiming nobody in the U.S. (let alone elsewhere) is/has been taking custom order deliveries in Q3/2017? Of course many have, all the time still. At the same time people get inventory cars on deals.
Everyone does not pay the same price...
It is certainly possible this type of deal is offered. It is still a deal compared to custom order. I opine that there are even more deals every quarter (Tesla has built inventory to push volumes at least for a year and a half) - that is my feel having followed e.g. TMC reporting. I acknowledge you disagree.
Again, I am not dismissing this at all. The deals I talk about are beyond those.
dennis
Model S Plaid
That is correct. It was released in October 2016. Which is the reason that there were those great deals on all those inventory cars with AP1 hardware in Sep 2016.
Perhaps. Or perhaps it was to move a lot of cars.
Either way a lot of people paid more for their custom orders at the end of Q3 than those who sought inventory deals for the same car...
