End of ownership review - 14 months with an LR

[Avalyn]

Time for a change, I commit financial suicide approximately every 12-18 months by changing my car. I typically am on PCP deals, and end up throwing in a reasonable amount of cash to pay off the settlement value and giving me a decent deposit for another car. I like to experience different cars, life’s too short, it’s my hard earned cash so I’ll do what I want with it

These are my views below, you do not have to agree and I'm happy to hear your opinion just don't expect me to change mine.

So, my 14 months report on my Model 3 LR. I bought it new from Tesla Glasgow in Feb 22 (pre price rise/price cut). I only optioned the 19” sport wheels as the standard 18’s with the aero covers look nasty and underneath are nice but way too small (looks wise anyway).

I’ve covered 4,500 miles, charging has been about 60 % supercharger/40% public network. I do not have the ability to home charge. I worked out that it’s only saved me around £250 - £300 compared to an ICE car that does @35 mpg. Confirmed by the Tesla app. This saving I expect will disappear as more and more electric cars hit the road

Tesla supercharging is brilliant (ok more expensive), quick and I’ve had zero issues charging, never had to wait for a bay The public charging network up here (Aberdeen) is crap I’ve had reasonable success at Tesco (7/22 Kw) but most of the chargers up here are 7Kw, you quite often still have to pay for parking while charging and I’d say about 4 times out of 10 the charger are either out of order or I have an issue charging.

There needs to be serious investment in the public charging network, for example, when I bought the Tesla (remember 14 months ago) the local council were installing 2 x 7 Kw chargers in locations I thought I would be able to use. One is across from my work (I usually walk but occasionally have the car) and one in the gym car park (I’m there 5 morning a week at 6 am). Both are still awaiting commission

In terms of other costs – other than finance and charging – I’m around £450 a year for insurance. No road tax but that will change soon. If I go back to an ICE car, I’ll still have finance, fuel (not much extra there), road tax (again a little extra) and servicing (that will be the largest extra expense). Note I did not buy the M3 to save money – I just wanted to see how running an electric car would be. A new experience.

I’ve also zero interest in the Greta Thunberg wannabees out there I work in the energy industry and the percentage that ICE cars in Scotland contribute to global CO2 barely registers. If the world wants to reduce CO2 then we need to be looking at aviation, massive tankers, coal fired power stations and focusing/helping the most polluting nations reduce their emissions (China and India – I’m looking at you). Fully agree with the cutting fumes in town centres/near schools – I live in town and walk 95% of the time so I am conscious of this and feel using my own 2 feet is helping. Unless it’s a journey more than 30 mins walk or I need to do the weekly shop or carry a big item then I prefer to walk.

Right – driving the car – the drivetrain is stunning, instant power, smooth and very quick. The steering is quick and accurate. It has zero feel unfortunately. We’ve had a fair amount of snow/ice/rain up here and you have almost no clue how much grip you actually have. It is an effortless drive.

It’s a lovely GT car. It’s not a sports car, it’s too heavy and the suspension is too soft on the corners yet a little harsh on our poor roads (maybe the 19’s). It could do with better suspension or adaptive suspension, especially when it’s a £50k plus car. The seats are comfortable, but do not hold you in place on a spirited drive. I’d have preferred more sculpted seats with alcantara centre sections.

It’s not as efficient as I'd have hoped (Ok maybe I don’t drive it or use it as efficiently as I could – short journeys/pre-heat etc.). The claimed range is 370 miles but that’s from 0- 100%. If I use the recommended 20-80% I think I’m lucky if I get 200-220 miles. Aberdeen to Edinburgh return is 250 miles. If we go away for the weekend I need to make sure I’m fully charged before we go and will have to charge at least once to make sure there is enough to start the week. That’s pretty crap tbh. We did the trip in February when supercharger price were high and it was cold. It cost around £100. That’s worse than an ICE car. I'm less inclined to give it some beans as I'm too conscious of the battery % dropping and not being able to find a working charger. It's a good commuter/long journey car - it's not a good just take it out for a hoon car.

The ability to pre-heat/defrost the car from inside the house is priceless. I will miss that – a lot

Some poor stuff ☹ auto wipers – not fit for purpose, crap. Auto dip lights - not fit for purpose, crap. Basic auto pilot - not fit for purpose, crap. I believe that the auto pilot now requires the wipers to also be on auto. Magic – what I want to be doing is watching the wipers either frantically wipe a dry screen, or not clear one while phantom braking whenever if feels like it It may be that it just does not cope well with dual carriageways up here. Based on my location/experience there is zero chance of self drive ever working. I said above I commit financial suicide most years by changing my car – could be worse- I could have paid out for extended or full auto pilot. At least when I change cars I get something for it rather than a very expensive bit of software that doesn’t work and I highly doubt ever will.

What's the point in fitting matrix lights that can't use the functionality?

I guess the most damning comment is that I’d describe the Tesla as efficient transport. It’s almost so efficient at what it does that it lacks any sort of character. I’ve been laughed at by suggesting it needs an option to play some sort of noise through the speakers, like the Taycan/i4. Some sort of aural experience. It would just help you engage with the car.

I can’t say I’ve ever got up on a Sunday and thought ooooh lets take the Tesla for a drive. It’s transport, not particularly fun and given the state of the public charging network I’d need to plan the journey and hope the chargers worked. That kind of spoils the fun. Whoever said planning added to an occasion.

Each to their own but I’m sure I will be happier in something a little older, with dials and buttons, a big woofling v8 or a straight six. No need to continually monitor battery %. Interacting with a car with a gearstick or paddles at least until that’s banned. Maybe by then there will be more choice of EV available with a charging network that supports it. The new Hyundai Ioniq 5 N is out soon, with customizable sounds and from what I’ve been reading software/paddles that simulate driving an ICE car if you want that experience. It appears they have figured out that EV’s need to be more interactive rather than just effective.

Overall though I have enjoyed my experience with the car, it is a shame the tech stuff doesn’t work. I'm heading back to ICE while I can, I have either a v8 or a flat 6 lined up. It's a nice community in here and I'm sure one day I'll be back.

What would tempt me? Model 3 performance, slightly less blobby looks, adaptive suspension, more choice in colours, wheels, interior (like carbon or alcantara), seats and added internal sound (lets do some spaceship/star wars noises)

Over and out

 

[Dilly]

At the end of the end of the day it’s what works best and what suits us as individuals.
I won’t go back to an ICE because my ability to charge at home via solar make my running costs negligable. But that’s me. If the difference was negligible that might be a different story.

It’s the difference between the Tesla tech that is really ‘on the money’ and that which is just plain substandard or unfulfilled. The former pulls people in and the latter drives them away.

In five years time the EV market will be a completely different place. Hopefully the provision of of charging infrastructure will also be!

 

[NewbieT]

Love the candidness.

No ability to charge at home would definitely be a deal breaker for me, let alone the state of public charging (availability, reliability, price).

Not a petrol head or an eco warrior myself (more ‘eco conscious’). Once my lease is up I may dip back into the ICE world for a few years. I love AP though (yes, it has its moments). After the TM3 I think I’ll be looking for an auto with ALKS. Might explore openpilot.

 

[WannabeOwner]

Interesting perspective, thanks

I do not have the ability to home charge

I think this is the crux. If you did have, and had a cheap overnight rate, I expect that would swing your preference quite a bit?

But ... you and a lot of the population don't have that option.

The claimed range is 370

Yeah, sadly that's the Government Test Figure ... which is pretty useless.

If I use the recommended 20-80% I think I’m lucky if I get 200-220 miles.

I think that's the right figure, for the car.

will have to charge at least once to make sure there is enough to start the week. That’s pretty crap tbh

I think you'd feel differently about that if you had home charging. You might, just / in winter, be able to make the round trip, but arriving on "fumes" would be fine 'coz all you'd have to do is plug it in when you got home.

 

[Avalyn]

The ability to home charge might have helped me keep the car a little longer but as I do so few miles, my actual costs to 'fuel' any car pale into insignificance compared to actually financing the car itself.

Even if charging was free, I wouldn't be saving that much over a year compared to an ICE car. If I was doing 10-15k a year I'm sure that home charging would have a much bigger influence on my choice of car.

Certainly coming home on 'fumes' in the Tesla would have made things much easier. No one wants to be driving home to then spend 3-40 minutes sitting 3 miles away from home charging so that they have enough to last the week.

Me and the wife share a car (more planet saving ) , and she would quite happily run around in an ICE car showing 30 miles to empty confident there actually was 30 miles left and with confidence she could fill up. She would start to panic if the tesla showed 20% or less concerned that she wouldn't get where she needed to go or find a useable charger.

So, home charging would have helped but that would not have resolved the tech that doesn't work, or the lack of driving enjoyment.

Again, I'll reiterate, it's a really nice car and I do like it, and if my driving included 10-15k a year, mostly motorway just getting to where I needed to go as stress free as possible I'm sure I'd still be in a Tesla. For 4-5K a year of 80% let's go for a hoon it just isn't what I want sitting outside.

 

[WannabeOwner]

ICE car showing 30 miles to empty confident there actually was 30 miles left

I never had an ICE that showed the low miles-to-empty with any confidence! The tanks were presumably cone-shaped, and no one had bothered to adjust the software to compensate, so when they said "50 miles to empty" after 10 miles that dropped to 25, and 5 miles later went blank - very helpful!

But fill up on any street corner is a benefit of ICE, and 600 mile range ... along with the smell and inconvenience and messy-job and queue to pay (which you don't have to do if pay-at-pump ... but most people seem to - maybe they need some Cigs ...) ... no benefit without home or in-street charging though

I agree that the appeal to high mileage drivers is greater - the saving is £100-£150 a month per 10K miles driven p.a. - your sub-4,000 miles p.a. ain't helping much! I was doing 30K miles p.a. when I got the first Tesla, back in 2015, and apart from everything else that saved me 8 hours a year just standing on forecourts and pumping fuel / queuing to pay ... which, as it happens, pretty much exactly matched my out-of-range Supercharging time - except that I was able to do useful stuff during those 20-minute periods 3 or 4 times a month

 

[Durzel]

Great unfiltered review

I happen to think that EVs are only barely viable now if you don't have home charging. Teslas are better than most due to the supercharger network, but it's still expensive. I had a BMW i3 for a year in 2019, exclusively public charging, and even then there were occasions I'd turn up somewhere and it would be out of order, or I'd have to wait for an hour or more for the person on it to move, etc. It is too expensive to publicly charge all of the time, you barely get any benefit over petrol/diesel - as you know.

Agree about the seats - they are comfortable but not supportive at all. I feel like I'm just sat on a bench seat in my M3P which is ridiculous. Tesla really ought to disambiguate the P more with sport seats, but they won't because they don't like differentiation, they want as much as possible to be shared across all of the models. At the risk of sounding a bit prejudiced - maybe the seats are engineered more for the American market? It would certainly track with everything else (e.g. matrix lights doing nothing, even though they've been legal in Europe for years).

I couldn't disagree more about the simulated noise side of things. I honestly can't understand the need for it. The noise you get from an ICE is a byproduct of the engine, exhaust, gearbox, etc - they have character because of the various engine sizes, number of cylinders, etc. The notion that you should have a fake noise piped through the speakers to give the car "character", when it would be completely fake - as there is no engine, gearbox or exhaust - is just ridiculous, to me anyway. I even feel that ICE cars that pipe the engine noise into the cabin are pretty lol - but at least that's real, and compensating for increased sound deadening, etc. On an EV it would be 100% fake.

I agree with your suggestions for an improved M3P - bar the nonsense simulated sound of course

 

[pdk42]

Spot on “review”. I do have home charging which helps on costs, but the lack of public charging in remote areas is still a challenge for some journeys. Basically, an EV doesn’t yet provide a wall-to-wall replacement for an ICE and won’t until the infrastructure is fixed.

I’m in Norway at present on a short visit and they are now just about at the point where the infrastructure is good enough - but they had a 2-3 year start on us, a much more engaged and supportive government, and of course a much higher level of GDP to provide the investment needed.

I still reckon it’ll be another 5 years before we get to the same level.

 

[Durzel]

Infrastructure is not developing at anywhere like the pace it needs to. The Government is only paying lip service to it, as token green credentials. I guess like loads of other things it’s a problem for a future government, quite possibly not a Tory one.

 

[TM3P1]

As I come to the end of my lease in June (3 years) in my M3P, I must say I do agree with most of your points.

The car is super quick, the party piece off the lights never gets old. The wipers are beyond a joke. The seats are equally rubbish, only marginally bettered by the suspension. The supercharger network is superb! Oh and perhaps the most underrated bit...the sound system is also superb!

Overall, as I am moving to an Audi E-tron GT I may find I've been too harsh on the Tesla. It has been back to Tesla at least once every few months for something or the other over the years. Although I am sure it will be missed, I'm glad I didn't buy it!

 

[interbear]

Good review @Avalyn and some very reasonable points made. I agree with your positives on drivetrain and negatives on the auto features. They apply to my Model Y as much as they do to the Model 3 (which I had previously).

Personally, I wouldn't recommend an EV, even a Tesla, to anyone without the ability to charge at home. Outwith all the environmental reasons (which some don't agree with anyway) it's the one-pedal effortless driving (and nice turn of pace) and the ability to "fill the tank" overnight on cheap rate electricity that makes EVs a worthwhile purchase.

Charging infrastructure is better for Tesla than most other EVs and even then it's a challenge. As a Scot living in south Wales I make pretty regular trips up to Scotland, visiting family in the Borders and then on to Glasgow for football / friends. I've done it many times in the Tesla and found it increasingly challenging in terms of finding somewhere to charge in the rural Borders region, increasingly regular wait times at superchargers on the journey and the impact of this on my overall journey time. So much so that I've defaulted to using the diesel VW van for those journeys - it usually knocks 1.5-2 hours off the journey time while adding CO2 emissions into the equation of course. I even flirted with the idea of replacing the Model Y with a plug-in hybrid for those journeys but realise that the diesel van is probably offers the same mpg as a hybrid with added battery weight running on petrol.

Anyway. Enjoyed your review, good luck with whatever vehicle takes your fancy next.

 

[phil4]

I'd never be driving a Tesla if I couldn't home charge. And now I've got solar, that swings things in EV favour even more.

I don't disagree with your other points about downsides.

I still think my next car will be another Tesla, things I like are the software and updates, the lack of dealers and salesman trying to milk my wallet. And the performance/ease of driving.

 

[pdk42]

I've done it many times in the Tesla and found it increasingly challenging in terms of finding somewhere to charge in the rural Borders region, increasingly regular wait times at superchargers on the journey and the impact of this on my overall journey time.

Yes, contrary to what I hoped, it’s getting worse, not better. I’m seriously thinking of going back to ICE for a while. Maybe a PHEV. If I could get 50 real world miles out of a charge, I’d do it tomorrow.

 

[pgkevet]

I still think my next car will be another Tesla, things I like are the software and updates, the lack of dealers and salesman trying to milk my wallet. And the performance/ease of driving.

Folk keep pointing this out. It's truly a crock. Instead of franchised dealers taking a negotiable cut you have Tesla milking the customer directly - just look at their margin. And without the benefit of easy phone access to discuss issues or giving two hoots about service any more.

 

[Avalyn]

Thanks for the kind replies, not the OMG you're mad, you're going back to ICE (the devils fuel) and you must be doing something wrong - all the auto stuff works magically all the time responses I was expecting

Our main reason for going EV wasn't cost, but primarily the typical usage for the car, around town short journeys (ok - not efficient but worse for petrol cars as they never get a chance to get to operating temperature) and the occasional long trip. Tesla was the only EV option as IMO the public charging network is nowhere near good enough. The Tesla supercharging network however is fantastic It's maybe getting busier down south but I'm lucky to see any more than 3/4 stalls used in Aberdeen/Dundee/Perth/Edinburgh.

EV appeared to be a sensible choice. It probably still is but sensible isn't always fun. It's too much like transport rather than fun, and we'd need to plan around charging the thing.

It's not as if I could just one minute decide to have a wonderful drive cross country, from Aberdeen cross country, up the lecht without either sitting up at Tesla Aberdeen for 40 mins charging to full before leaving or keeping my fingers crossed I could find a working charger on route that's not 7Kw and actually in service.

I can see me back in a Tesla in a few years time, assuming there has been massive improvements in charging infrastructure + having the basic functions we'd expect to work, work properly. I mean an £10k dacia has auto lights/wipers/cruise control that work - why don't they in the £50k+ high tech car

 

[interbear]

I mean an £10k dacia has auto lights/wipers/cruise control that work - why don't they in the £50k+ high tech car

In my last 2 trips to / from Scotland from Wales I took the Tesla on the 1st trip and the VW van (Transporter T6.1 converted to a camper) on the 2nd trip. As well as the VW completing the journey quicker due to the lack of wait / charging time, I noticed that the auto wipers and cruise control on the VW were markedly better than the Tesla. Which frankly baffled me. Simple things like the VW cruise control automatically accelerating when indicating to move out and overtake on the motorway, as you would naturally do when driving. Whereas in the Model Y with cruise control, I indicate to overtake, move into the outside lane and the car slows down for a second or two before deciding that it's OK to accelerate. Annoys me every single time and probably anyone racing up behind me in the outside lane also

 

[phil4]

Folk keep pointing this out. It's truly a crock. Instead of franchised dealers taking a negotiable cut you have Tesla milking the customer directly - just look at their margin. And without the benefit of easy phone access to discuss issues or giving two hoots about service any more.

I do get what you're saying about money.... but not so much the people taking it.

I like that I can literally by the car online, I don't have to sit and talk to a smarmy salesman, who will spend ages specing the car, then wander off to the back office for their secret chat about the best price they can do it for, to come back and present me with a number, which I need to decide there and then, oh and while we're there, try and upsell me the tyre, wheel, paint, upholstery, gap insurance upsells.

Nor do I need to take it back there at least every year, while a different set of people look at the car, change the oil and a filter and sting me for the cost. You mention easy phone access. That's never been the case for dealerships, you have to deal with the front office, who put you on hold, perhaps pass you on to a service rep, or take a message. The best the service rep can do is book you in, perhaps in a couple of weeks. And if that problem involves electrics, your car may be with them for several days as they wait for their "master tech". So even though you can pick up the phone, the issue isn't resolved until you've taken your car to them.

I don't like people, and the less often I have to deal with them directly, the happier I am.

 

[WannabeOwner]

the typical usage for the car, around town short journeys (ok - not efficient but worse for petrol cars as they never get a chance to get to operating temperature) and the occasional long trip

I reckon the ideal for that (assuming there isn't a PHEV with sufficient electric range) is an EV and an ICE.

When we got first EV, 2015, that was 240 miles max (and far more limited charging opportunities than now). We kept the run-around ICE for long / difficult journeys. When the main EV was replaced the new one was good for just shy of 300 miles at motorway speed, and we no longer had any need for a "backup", so we swapped that for an EV for the run around journeys.

 

[Durzel]

In my last 2 trips to / from Scotland from Wales I took the Tesla on the 1st trip and the VW van (Transporter T6.1 converted to a camper) on the 2nd trip. As well as the VW completing the journey quicker due to the lack of wait / charging time, I noticed that the auto wipers and cruise control on the VW were markedly better than the Tesla. Which frankly baffled me. Simple things like the VW cruise control automatically accelerating when indicating to move out and overtake on the motorway, as you would naturally do when driving. Whereas in the Model Y with cruise control, I indicate to overtake, move into the outside lane and the car slows down for a second or two before deciding that it's OK to accelerate. Annoys me every single time and probably anyone racing up behind me in the outside lane also

Apropos of nothing but I used Navigate on Autopilot a couple of weeks ago, and it was bloody useless I don't lnow whether it was a particular set of circumstances that confused it, but it kept suggesting lane changes which were pointless - i.e. I would've had to have changed lane back again because I would have been on a slower car in a matter of seconds, or it just failed to suggest ones that I needed to make to maintain my speed. Of course, if you actually change lanes yourself you knock it out of AP anyway (but cruise stays on).

Wipers being highly variable ought not to be baffling, it's a simple lack of a tried and tested rain sensor that literally every other manufacturer uses, and has used, since day dot. Sometimes they appear to work alright, other times they are pretty hopeless. Like the new Tesla Vision Park Assist it is a system you should be able to rely upon, that should disappear into the background (like decent technology does), but it doesn't. Everything is in effing beta.

 

[Dilly]

Thanks for the kind replies, not the OMG you're mad, you're going back to ICE (the devils fuel) and you must be doing something wrong - all the auto stuff works magically all the time responses I was expecting

Our main reason for going EV wasn't cost, but primarily the typical usage for the car, around town short journeys (ok - not efficient but worse for petrol cars as they never get a chance to get to operating temperature) and the occasional long trip. Tesla was the only EV option as IMO the public charging network is nowhere near good enough. The Tesla supercharging network however is fantastic It's maybe getting busier down south but I'm lucky to see any more than 3/4 stalls used in Aberdeen/Dundee/Perth/Edinburgh.

EV appeared to be a sensible choice. It probably still is but sensible isn't always fun. It's too much like transport rather than fun, and we'd need to plan around charging the thing.

It's not as if I could just one minute decide to have a wonderful drive cross country, from Aberdeen cross country, up the lecht without either sitting up at Tesla Aberdeen for 40 mins charging to full before leaving or keeping my fingers crossed I could find a working charger on route that's not 7Kw and actually in service.

I can see me back in a Tesla in a few years time, assuming there has been massive improvements in charging infrastructure + having the basic functions we'd expect to work, work properly. I mean an £10k dacia has auto lights/wipers/cruise control that work - why don't they in the £50k+ high tech car

Good luck with your chosen replacement. If you do ever buy another Tesla, Perhaps it will be a different beast entirely. There is only so much that software can get right...