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Endorse my letter to Tesla for supporting 3-phase charging for the Model S

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by widodh, Oct 3, 2011.

  1. widodh

    widodh Model S R231 EU

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    #1 widodh, Oct 3, 2011
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2011
    THE LETTER HAS BEEN SENT. I THANK EVERYBODY WHO HAS SUPPORTED MY LETTER!

    Hello,

    At the October 1st event I found out that the Model S has no 3-phase charging support.

    This was a real bummer for me, enough for me to take action and trying to convince Tesla Motors to re-visit this topic once again.

    I'm basing my information on what I've heard at the event and what I saw there (like the propriety connector which lacks L2 and L3).

    Elon Musk called us reservation holders "family" rather than names on a spreadsheet. As a family member I think I have to step up and take action.

    As attachment to this post you'll find the letter I'm intending to sent to Tesla, but I want to have it reviewed first. I'm dutch so my english is far from perfect, so I ask for some grammar checking of my letter.

    I didn't start about the standardized vs propriety connector discussion, I don't think that is appropriate in this discussion. We just need 3-phase charging!

    My intention is to sent this my regular mail instead of e-mail, I hope this even makes a better statement.

    Attach you will also find a document you can sign when you support my action. There is some room for a personal message. I'd prefer if people sign this document with a regular pen and sent it to me by mail.

    Again, why paper? That is bad for the environment! Yes, I know. But I think just a e-mail is not enough here. That will be something that comes in a inbox somewhere. If a pack of paper arrives at the Tesla HQ with all our signatures that will make a much better statement.

    Please, review my letter and sent my feedback. This can be done via a PM, a post in this topic or by e-mail to [email protected]

    Also, try to keep this thread clean! I ask you not to start a discussion here since it is my intention to sent the link of this thread to Tesla as well. Discussion about 3-phase charging, the chargers and other stuff can be done in the designated topics for that subject.

    THE LETTER BECAME TO LARGE AS ATTACHMENT, YOU CAN DOWNLOAD IT HERE
     

    Attached Files:

  2. mnx

    mnx 2013 P85

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    Don't count on any North Americans signing the petition, we don't give a rip about 3 phase... Maybe they'll put in a 3 phase charger for the European launch?

    - mnx
     
  3. Kevin Sharpe

    Kevin Sharpe Active Member

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    but if you want Tesla to flourish then you may care about non-North American customers
     
  4. mnx

    mnx 2013 P85

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    Of course I hope you guys get 3 phase, If I was on your side of the pond I'd want 3 phase as well. I'd just prefer they not delay the model S north american launch to include a feature I won't use.
     
  5. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

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    I hope you get the 3 phase charging you want.
     
  6. widodh

    widodh Model S R231 EU

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    I never counted on North Americans signing this petition, but all I want Tesla to know, there is more in the world than the US.
     
  7. EV_de

    EV_de Model SP10/XP9 EU ZOE#47

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    #7 EV_de, Oct 3, 2011
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2011
    what world ?

    [​IMG]
     

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  8. AnOutsider

    AnOutsider S532 # XS27

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    :biggrin:

    I, too, am a North American that doesn't care enough to have the car delayed. I hope there is a solution to keep you guys happy though.
     
  9. GSP

    GSP Member

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    I hope you get the 3-phase charging that you NEED.

    No need to delay the launch, that would be a financial disaster. Just get 3-phase in the "1.5"

    GSP
     
  10. William13

    William13 Member

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    Of course three phase is better, but DC is better yet. Tesla will not have any cars sent to Europe until 2013. There is plenty of time for new chargers under the back seat if the demand for cars is there. Although the price for a roadster is relatively low in some European countries trying to promote EVs, the proportion of electric cars is very low compared with the USA. I know that Tesla is an American company but the number of European reservations is still very low.

    The three phase can be handled outside the car in the form of DC fast charging which will give 1/2 charge in 1/2 hour. They expect most of us in the USA to only fill at 10 kWh per hour unless we are taking a long road trip.
     
  11. widodh

    widodh Model S R231 EU

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    No, sure not need to delay. I want that car to be out there asap!

    I'm already receiving endorsements, thank you all! I ask everybody to sent his endorsement to me before November 4h 2011, I plan to sent the package then.
     
  12. William13

    William13 Member

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    By the way, I think they can easily fit a European specific connector and charger but this will cost extra and take time.
     
  13. widodh

    widodh Model S R231 EU

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    I ask you to read my letter to Tesla.

    To get to the basics of it. In Europe we are limited to 16A for most of the time, sometimes we'll be able to charge with 32A, but at 230V that is still only about 7kW. You can't draw more than 32A on a single-phase, everything above that needs to be drawn from 3-phases.

    We are not asking for 44kW 3-phase charging, but 3x16A (11kW) or 3x32(22kW) is what we want. I'm fine with everything above 22kW going through the form of DC and a external charger. 3x16A sockets are widely available throughout Europe and all public charging stations are equipped with a "Mennekes" connector with 3x16A (although RWE supplies 3x32A).

    It would be great if Tesla would stick a "Mennekes" connector somewhere in the European cars, great!
     
  14. Kevin Sharpe

    Kevin Sharpe Active Member

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    this is very simple.... does Tesla need to sell cars in Europe to survive and prosper? If it does then it MUST have 3 Phase charging. I'm sure UK customers would be happy to pay for this because it would allow them to abandon the ICE cars that they keep for trips into Mainland Europe.
     
  15. dpeilow

    dpeilow Moderator

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    I don't want to muddy the waters, but just tossing this in for consideration: If we are happy to limit 3P to 22 kW (and I'm not convinced this is a good idea, but if) then it also *must* support CHAdeMO.

    However I am aware that one chain of AC chargers in the UK may go to 44 kW very soon.
     
  16. widodh

    widodh Model S R231 EU

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    We should not get our hopes up. I guess 22kW is about the max we will see due to limited space in the car and heat development. Everythin above that will probably be a external DC charger.

    But shall we not start that discussion in this thread?

    So, go out there and find people to sign my document, I want to sent Tesla a message from their (potential) European customers.

    Also, I never said the 3-phase charging should be free. I'd be happy to pay for it, I know that development is expensive!
     
  17. doug

    doug Administrator / Head Moderator

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    Given the amount of forum traffic on this 3-phase topic after Oct 1st, I'm sure they know. Actually, I'm sure they knew before hand too, but for whatever reason didn't think it was that important. Good luck in your efforts.

    Really surprised, though, while they were designing their own connector they didn't go ahead and make it 3-phase capable. A Tesla'd sleek and high power version of something like this would have been perfect:

    attachment.php?attachmentid=2930&d=1317750078.jpg

    Even if they wanted to only offer single-phase charging to start (for North America), they could add 3-phase support later since the chargers are apparently modular. If only the connector they designed were 3-phase capable.

    1-3P-DC.jpg
     
  18. widodh

    widodh Model S R231 EU

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    I really don't get it either. That's why we need to sent a strong message to Tesla! I think even a lot of Europeans waited with their reservation due to the lack of real support towards Europeans. "We'll launch the car in the US and we'll also do that in the EU, somewhere when we find it convenient."

    I fully agree on your connector design, I told the Tesla guy I spoke to the same thing. Adding L2 and L3 wouldn't have made the connector that much bigger. But he said they wanted to be "Apple like".

    Anyway, I ask all Europeans again, sign my document!
     
  19. doug

    doug Administrator / Head Moderator

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    Just to be clear, that pic above is not my design. It's Mennekes type-2.

    Apple-like is fine. Apple-like is great, actually. But don't sacrifice function for form. "No compromise," right? Shouldn't want the Tesla equivalent of the "hockey puck" mouse.
     
  20. donauker

    donauker Member

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    As stated the chargers are entirely modular. There really is no reason why they could not supply a 3-phase charger where desired.

    In the case of the connector there is also no reason why they could not design and supply a matching 3-phase connector. Why add unused and unneeded contacts in a connector to be supplied in many 10s of thousands of vehicles? A significant part of the cost of the connector will be in the contacts. Also remember that those two large contacts will need to be able to handle around 200 amps for 90kW. Two additional contacts to support 32 or even 64 amps 3-phase could be much smaller then the large ones. It is even possible they may fit within the same size housing
     

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