Enel X Juicebox Pro 40 not working anymore with Model 3 Performance

[AdventureVan]

I have a JuiceBox Pro 40 mounted in my garage and plugged into a NEMA 14-50 outlet. For more than a year now, without issue, it's been used to charge my other electric vehicle. With the new Tesla Model 3 Performance, it charged it fine/normally for several weeks, until 4/12, when it started not working. My Premium Connectivity trial expires 4/10, and I cannot imagine it's related, but... I'll probably re-subscribe to that anyway, but I doubt that's the fix, or the issue.)

When plugged in, The Tesla says it's working, but the amperage is low (zero or close to zero) and then spikes sometimes but returned to nearly zero. The other vehicle continues to charge normally. Thinking that implicated the Tesla, I tried a second Tesla, which then behaves as mine did; i.e. it wouldn't charge.

I've tried:

1. unplugging the JuiceBox for 20+ minutes
2. throwing the breaker
3. setting the Tesla's charge amperage limit to 12A, 20A, etc.
4. switching on, then off the "depart by" and charge at night settings in the Tesla app
5. ensuring the JuiceBox isn't trying to do TOU charging (which doesn't play nicely with the other vehicle either, so F it)
6. Opening up the outlet and retightening all the screws (they were fine, but now even tighter)

Has anyone had a similar experience with the JuiceBox Pro 40 (or similar) not playing nicely with the Tesla? It's not working with either of two Teslas but it IS working fine with a non-Tesla EV.

 

[jjrandorin]

@FalconFour is probably one of the most (if not "the" most) knowledgeable people here about juicebox devices. Tagging him here in hopes he might be able to provide you some direction.

 

[FalconFour]

Thanks, @jjrandorin !

I'd love to see a pic of your particular JuiceBox - there were MANY versions over the years. I'm particularly knowledgeable about the "v1" box (metal box - black or silver dating back to Kickstarter era) but I'm slowly learning about the V2 (plastic box) and its inherited architecture of the v1 boxes.

In this case, the first thing I'd recommend looking at is the voltage reported on the screen of the Tesla immediately when charging is called to start. You might use delayed charging to plug-in (not start charging), then go in the car and hit "start", and watch the voltage immediately appear. If the voltage is lingering around low, it's possibly a bad relay in the JuiceBox. The voltage on the screen reports what's being seen by the car, and it should be line voltage. It'll go down by a few volts as amperage increases, but at first, as it's starting up, it should be stable.

Bad relays seem to be the most common way a JuiceBox "dies", but they can always be replaced/fixed. Second most common is a broken cable where the pilot wire breaks in the cable due to flexing over time - some cable designs were more flawed than others, and the ITT handle with the big solid latch across the top is most reliable/most common.

Less common are other issues I've also seen - a few times, I've seen the 1k resistor on the pilot line go out-of-spec, and deliver confusing pilot signal voltages to the car, so it doesn't know what to do - just starts and stops. Haven't seen it on more recent boxes, though - just older (silver) boxes. Given your symptoms in the charts, that seems not to be the case here.

So, take a look at the voltage and let's see what that shows. A video would tell a really nuanced story (imgur.com can host short videos to post here).

Whatever the case, I'm happy to help with DIY fixes (teach someone to fish ) as well as offering repair at my place if needed!

 

[AdventureVan]

Thanks @FalconFour!

Here's a video:

https://imgur.com/a/RpA4Tvb

When initially plugged in, the amps ramp up, and the voltage is up and down (more than a few volts, like down to 21x or 1xx something). The video is showing after charging is stopped and restarted a couple times while plugged in the whole time. In the video, the amps never ramp up. I tried to catch a fresh video from plug-in, but when I tried, the amps didn't even ramp up.

I appreciate any help or advice. I previously had the black aluminum box one, which died somehow and which Enel X graciously covered under warranty, sending me this one. The date code on the label says it's about 1.5 years old. Also, maybe it's not a "Pro;" for whatever reason I thought it was...

Finally, and I don't think this is relevant, I had one vehicle profile for my other vehicle and tried adding on for the Tesla. The other vehicle's profile says 1 phase, but when I added the Tesla, it had only a 2021 (not a 2022) and it called it 3 phase. I tried correcting it in the JuiceBox app, and it won't save the change. So I deleted the Tesla profile. Either way, it didn't work in either configuration, so I don't think that was the cause, nor the solution, to the problem.

The JuiceBox does make a number of clicks and clunks while it and the Tesla are deciding whether to work or not.

 

[ATPMSD]

Hard to tell from the photo but the outlet seems to showing heat Marks. Turn off the breaker and open it up. Look at the outlet and the connections, does everything look good? If so, tighten them up. But if the outlet is a Leviton throw it away, they are crap for continuous load needs! Get a commercial grade 14-50 outlet, you will probably need a new outlet cover as well. The outlet will run you $50-80.

 

[AdventureVan]

Good eye, yeah it’s a Home Depot Leviton, which I’ve recently read everyone say is crap.

Along those lines, I opened up the outlet yesterday. The face of it is evenly dulled, but not particularly scorched looking. The inside/back looks fine. All the screws were tight but I gave each an extra quarter turn. I closed it all back up and it’s still dorked.

For more than a year, that Leviton has reliably charged my other EV, which has only a 16kWh battery and only charges at 6.67kW (so, 27a?). So, come to think of it, the Tesla draws more amps and sometimes charges longer than two hours (the full charge duration of the other EV). Maybe that was too much for either the outlet or the JuiceBox.

 

[cali8484]

It appears the voltage is dropping too much under the 32A load. It could be loose wiring connection in the outlet or in the JuiceBox.

 

[jjrandorin]

@AdventureVan


I have never heard of any reports of premium connectivity interacting with charging in any way, at least not any that I can remember. That would be unusual enough that I would remember. I HAVE however, seen all sorts of posts of "funkiness" with scheduled charging settings. I dont think premium connectivity is involved in any way (corroborating your thinking here).

 

[FalconFour]

@AdventureVan ~ I clicked Play on your video, and when I saw the voltage come up, I was like





YEP THAT'S BAD ALRIGHT!

Tesla is smart enough to recognize a burned connection and not keep pulling on it, so it's protecting your wiring/box from more severe damage. (most/earlier EVs don't - they'll pull 'til it breaks!) It's probably already toasty, at some point between your charging cable and the breaker that feeds it (the failure could be anywhere in between). Could be a burned pin in the tip of the adapter or tip of the charging plug, a burned relay inside the JuiceBox, a burned outlet, a burned junction along the wire, or even a burned wire at the breaker box, or even still: a burned breaker!

Somewhere along the way, something is definitely burned. The moment the car starts pulling a little bit of juice, the voltage sags like an elephant sitting on a clothesline. It's like a single fray of wire is holding in there, providing voltage

Most likely culprit: the outlet itself (don't take forum advice; ask an electrician to investigate... but my forum advice: switch off the breaker and unscrew the outlet, look to see if it's Extra Crispy back there!), or the relay in the JuiceBox (can be a PITA to open that version of the box up). That's a JB2.0 and I could swear they got relays figured out by then, though...

Try the UMC with the 14-50 plug, perhaps, if you have that (or another EVSE if you have that) - you might not, so this may not be possible. See if the voltage drops there, too. If it doesn't, you can rule out the outlet and everything behind it and focus on the JB.

Willing to get your hands dirty opening up that JB?

BTW, about "Pro", that label flew in and out of existence over the years; it used to mean "it has WiFi", but then they all had WiFi; later it meant "it has all the features of JuiceNet" vs. a feature-stripped version, but now I think that's "lite" or they don't do it at all anymore, back and forth blah dee blah... seems the Pro name has been retired, but really, it's just a fleeting optional addition that means "it has WiFi" as far as I'm concerned

Also BTW: The box only knows two things: your charging current setting, and the charging schedule. The server does all the other work related to charging history, vehicle profiles, user access, etc etc etc. So, no need to worry about the vehicle profile stuff. The vehicle profile can, however, prevent you from fully charging if, for example, you have a 2013 Leaf selected - it may stop charging at 24 kWh

 

[AdventureVan]

I've ordered a Bryant outlet (https://www.grainger.com/product/BRYANT-Receptacle-50-A-Amps-Plugs-49YY93) and new plate cover (https://www.grainger.com/product/HUBBELL-WIRING-DEVICE-KELLEMS-Single-Receptacle-Wall-Plate-3D445) for ~$65 from Grainger and will fetch it Wednesday. Fingers crossed that it'll resolve the problem. Otherwise, I'll return focus to my open warranty ticket with Enel X.

Thanks @FalconFour and everyone else!

 

[FalconFour]

Hmm. Looking back at your reply about the outlet earlier, if you've already taken it out and weren't immediately made aware of the burning, then it's probably not the outlet that's burned (if you were even *able* to identify screws anymore... hmm).

I suspect the box, and I also suspect you might get the shun from Enel support, given it's already been replaced. Don't despair, though. The box can always be fixed with a new relay!

(I should probably get on designing a replacement relay board for JB2.0... I have some spares, but not many)

 

[BigNick]

Hard to tell from the photo but the outlet seems to showing heat Marks. Turn off the breaker and open it up. Look at the outlet and the connections, does everything look good? If so, tighten them up. But if the outlet is a Leviton throw it away, they are crap for continuous load needs! Get a commercial grade 14-50 outlet, you will probably need a new outlet cover as well. The outlet will run you $50-80.

Good catch, the metal outlet cover is clearly discolored but not so visible in the thumbnail.

 

[AdventureVan]

Good catch, the metal outlet cover is clearly discolored but not so visible in the thumbnail.

Sorry for the pathetic quality of the prior photos; I didn't realize anyone would be trying to assess the outlet from that pic or I'd have tried to get a better shot. Here are some more photos. The cover plate is reflecting, affecting its color. The face of the black outlet does look a bit funky. If it's any consolation, the plug is seated very snugly and requires some decent effort to pull out or insert. When I had the outlet open the other day, the back side of it looked normal and not unlike it did when it was new.

I should have the new Bryant outlet by Wednesday, and I'm hopeful that will fix it. If not, I'll have to contend with Enel X's warranty (again), or endeavor to fix the JuiceBox, etc. Fingers crossed that it's just the outlet. If not, I suppose I'll be glad to have replaced this deathtrap Leviton anyway.

 

[AdventureVan]

Hmm. Looking back at your reply about the outlet earlier, if you've already taken it out and weren't immediately made aware of the burning, then it's probably not the outlet that's burned (if you were even *able* to identify screws anymore... hmm).

I suspect the box, and I also suspect you might get the shun from Enel support, given it's already been replaced. Don't despair, though. The box can always be fixed with a new relay!

(I should probably get on designing a replacement relay board for JB2.0... I have some spares, but not many)

Quick update, if anyone cares.

The 14-50 Bryant outlet I ordered last week didn’t arrive Wed; they’re now shipping one from San Diego which will arrive Friday 4/29.

I just ordered a Tesla 14-50 adapter for my mobile connector (magically back in stock). I’ll be able to test that and the new outlet when both arrive. That combo should be allow test the city-power—house—breaker—wiring—outlet chain of possible problems while cutting the Juicebox out of the loop.

Separately I tested a few more combos, which all worked fine:

1. My car, my j1772–Tesla adapter, public ChargePoint. Charged at 30a.
2. My car, my adapter, a friend’s Juicebox Pro 40. Charged at 40a.
3. My car, my Tesla mobile connector on 110v/15a outlet. Charges fine at 12a.

I’d previously tested another Tesla with its adapter using my Juicebox and that also failed like mine.

I contacted Enel-X and they suspect my Tesla adapter is the problem. That doesn’t comport with the above, where my adapter works elsewhere and where a friend’s adapter plus my Juicebox didn’t work. Per Enel-X, I inspected the connector pins inside the j1772 and both ends of the adapter and I couldn’t/didn’t see anything amiss.

Enel-X says I’m on the newest firmware and that they don’t see any errors in the logs. The Juicebox continues to charge my other EV fine.

When my 14-50 mobile connector adapter arrives, I can test if it’s the Juicebox or my wiring/outlet. When the new outlet arrives I can swap it out and see if that matters.

Enel-X thinks my j1772 connector is [now] faulty, and they are considering a good-will replacement.

My current leading theory is that whatever is half-broken is being sensed by the Tesla which then throttles down, while NOT being sensed by my legacy EV, which continues to pull to it’s internal 28a limit.

If the new outlet doesn’t cure it, and Enel-X won’t replace it, is the JuiceBox now a deathtrap? Or can I safely continue to use it for my other EV but not the Tesla?

 

[FalconFour]

I've got my original J1772 adapter that came with the car in 2018. Used it as my primary charging since I got the car (my charge port very rarely actually sees a Tesla plug - haha). It still works fine. It's just a couple hunks of metal. Really weird that it could ever be the issue, though it can be damaged by bad cables used with it, I suppose.

REALLY weird that you have another car that seems just happy.

Honestly, if it were mine, I'd be taking it off the wall and looking inside. But I'm also pretty familiar with it. haha. I wouldn't be comfortable saying it's safe nor dangerous given my present uncertainty. Things are never really dangerous... they can just be made to be more difficult to fix by making the problem worse. Washers and dryers in particular. haha

 

[AdventureVan]

Honestly, if it were mine, I'd be taking it off the wall and looking inside. But I'm also pretty familiar with it. haha.

I haven’t yet done so because there’s a chance Enel-X will cover it. If they don’t, I just might. Hopefully (but doubtful), replacing the Leviton outlet with the Bryant will magically resolve it. To be continued…

 

[Transformer]

I'm pretty sure you have to select a Tesla profile in the JuiceBox app so it engages a workaround for Tesla charging behaviors. If the JuiceBox delays charging for TOU or renewable or low-cost grid sources [these features work for me!], or I think if the Tesla delays charging for TOU or a schedule, then JuiceBox needs to charge at a low power in the meantime rather than wait entirely so the Tesla won't shut off charging.

The JuiceBox works well but its app UI is not obvious, esp. setting the SoC min/max % charge levels by dragging the triangles around the circle. Enel has demo videos that helped me.

My procedure is to plug in then use the JuiceBox app to select the right car profile, set the initial battery SoC %, and set the desired max charge %. I set the JuiceBox to a bit higher max % than the Tesla so the car will decide when to stop.

These percentages are relative to the battery capacity in the profile. "Tesla Model 3 2021" should be as good as 2022 to the JuiceBox -- what it needs is to distinguish is the battery capacity (LR? SR?), that it's a Tesla, and maybe some other details.

If you don't set the initial and max SoC % values in the JuiceBox app, its leftover max setting could keep it from charging. Do check that!

(BTW this Tesla charging behavior is one reason why I need to read the power on the screen from outside the car after plugging in. Thankfully 2022.8.2.5 or earlier restored that text to a readable size.)

Our Leaf does not have a feature to stop charging at a desired max %, but the JuiceBox handles that nicely. The funky detail there is you have to read the car's % SoC before turning it off. The info it displays after turning "off" is not as useful.

 

[AdventureVan]

I'm pretty sure you have to select a Tesla profile in the JuiceBox app so it engages a workaround for Tesla charging behaviors. If the JuiceBox delays charging for TOU or renewable or low-cost grid sources [these features work for me!], or I think if the Tesla delays charging for TOU or a schedule, then JuiceBox needs to charge at a low power in the meantime rather than wait entirely so the Tesla won't shut off charging.

The JuiceBox works well but its app UI is not obvious, esp. setting the SoC min/max % charge levels by dragging the triangles around the circle. Enel has demo videos that helped me.

My procedure is to plug in then use the JuiceBox app to select the right car profile, set the initial battery SoC %, and set the desired max charge %. I set the JuiceBox to a bit higher max % than the Tesla so the car will decide when to stop.

These percentages are relative to the battery capacity in the profile. "Tesla Model 3 2021" should be as good as 2022 to the JuiceBox -- what it needs is to distinguish is the battery capacity (LR? SR?), that it's a Tesla, and maybe some other details.

If you don't set the initial and max SoC % values in the JuiceBox app, its leftover max setting could keep it from charging. Do check that!

(BTW this Tesla charging behavior is one reason why I need to read the power on the screen from outside the car after plugging in. Thankfully 2022.8.2.5 or earlier restored that text to a readable size.)

Our Leaf does not have a feature to stop charging at a desired max %, but the JuiceBox handles that nicely. The funky detail there is you have to read the car's % SoC before turning it off. The info it displays after turning "off" is not as useful.

Thank you for your response. I’m had previously tried adding a profile for the Tesla, and since the onset of the issue, I’ve tried it a fee different ways. After reading your post, I gave it a fresh try, without success.

 

[AdventureVan]

Quick update. My new Bryant outlet arrived Saturday and got installed. 75in-lb is more than anticipated, so I’m glad there was an in-lb scale torque wrench handy. The outgoing Leviton outlet didn’t appear to have any evidence of charring, looseness, or other issues. Alas, the new outlet didn’t fix the issue at all.

Separately, the nema 14-50 mobile connector adapter was supposed to arrive yesterday or today, but now shows being only in Ohio… when it arrives, I’ll try it, but I anticipate it’ll work fine, as I no longer suspect the house wiring is the issue.

Suspicious remains on the JuiceBox…

 

[Transformer]

Enel-X says I’m on the newest firmware and that they don’t see any errors in the logs.

Did they say whether the logs have enough info to tell if it's the JuiceBox or the car that initiates the session ending?

It might be interesting to watch a charging session start & shut down, then unplug, replug, and watch it happen right afterwards. I'm not sure what hypotheses this would rule out, but if J1772 + adaptor connections are failing and getting hot, the second try should shut down even sooner.