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Energy Costs - My co-op installing chargers that are 50c kWh

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I guess I'll be the contrarian.

What does your coop charge for a parking space? Per hour? Per Day? Per month? (How much 'revenue' will the coop lose by designating those spaces for EVs?

Is the Coop fronting the costs for the permitting, the hardware and union electricians to install?

What are ConEd's rates that your coop is paying? Do they have peak and non-peak rates?

If you are an owner, suggest you reach out to your coop Treasurer and ask to see their numbers, all-in. How did they come up with the .50 cents?

Perhaps its some really conservative assumptions, so non-car, non-EV owners won't get stiffed, and they may lower the rate if the spaces get lots of use?

fwiw: also agree that the chart above is worthless. CA rates are much, much higher that .19.
 
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This chart is usless. New York rates vary from 12 cents per kWh to 27 cents per kWh. Average is useless when the spread is huge.
It des sat up to 2021. Sorry you are not happy, thought it would give a timeline in increases.
Our is at 9 cents per kwh..but going up due to a dam removal, because of the fires in the state ( repair of lines,etc. ) and vandalizm to Electric hub stations.
 
I'd think that a fleet of Tesla J1772a chargers set for power sharing could reduce the total maximum load and provide billing, and I suppose even make it so only approved users could use them.

I'd also certainly hope the co-op isn't paying full residential rate for power, too. I'd expect commercial rates, but I'm not a power professional.
That is a pretty good solution. Nice for Tesla owners where it's automatic. Non-Tesla have to use the app. With 3/4 of the cars being Teslas you would want NACS on at least half the stations if they are shared, plus have a cabinet with some of those Lectron NACS to J1772 connectors for people to borrow, a lockbox with a code or something. If the spaces are assigned to one car, you just assign Tesla drivers to Tesla stalls, they get plug and play.

Having to use an app is annoying of course for non-Teslas. I don't know if the cars that do plug and charge can talk to the J1772 wall connector, it seems it should be doable if Tesla implements it.

And as a plus, Tesla wall connectors can share current, meaning you can put in 24 stations with maybe 200 amps, not 720. The odds that you would need more than that are very low, but you would look at the cost of 200 amps compared to 400 or higher and make the decision. No way you need 720, it's just never going to happen that all 24 cars will charge at full rate all night, not even remotely close.

I presume what's done is done at this co-op though.
 
This came to mind.....

Electricity (kWh) Prices by State​

STATESep 2021Sep 2020MOVEMENTCHANGE (%)
Alabama12.41¢ / kWh12.79¢ / kWhDOWN-2.971 %
Alaska22.54¢ / kWh22.14¢ / kWhUP1.806 %
Arizona13.16¢ / kWh12.65¢ / kWhUP4.031 %
Arkansas9.99¢ / kWh10.73¢ / kWhDOWN-6.896 %
California19.90¢ / kWh19.39¢ / kWhUP2.630 %
Colorado12.28¢ / kWh12.75¢ / kWhDOWN-3.686 %
Connecticut21.62¢ / kWh20.47¢ / kWhUP5.617 %
DC13.21¢ / kWh13.40¢ / kWhDOWN-1.417 %
Delaware12.05¢ / kWh12.59¢ / kWhDOWN-4.289 %
Florida11.37¢ / kWh12.02¢ / kWhDOWN-5.407 %
Georgia12.26¢ / kWh12.53¢ / kWhDOWN-2.154 %
Hawaii32.76¢ / kWh30.45¢ / kWhUP7.586 %
Idaho10.58¢ / kWh11.42¢ / kWhDOWN-7.355 %
Illinois12.56¢ / kWh12.95¢ / kWhDOWN-3.011 %
Indiana12.02¢ / kWh12.05¢ / kWhDOWN-0.248 %
Iowa13.81¢ / kWh13.92¢ / kWhDOWN-0.790 %
Kansas11.56¢ / kWh13.56¢ / kWhDOWN-14.74 %
Kentucky10.56¢ / kWh10.68¢ / kWhDOWN-1.123 %
Louisiana9.37¢ / kWh10.19¢ / kWhDOWN-8.047 %
Maine16.16¢ / kWh16.17¢ / kWhDOWN-0.061 %
Maryland13.92¢ / kWh14.22¢ / kWhDOWN-2.109 %
Massachusetts21.11¢ / kWh18.56¢ / kWhUP13.73 %
Michigan16.07¢ / kWh15.86¢ / kWhUP1.324 %
Minnesota14.09¢ / kWh13.96¢ / kWhUP0.931 %
Mississippi11.55¢ / kWh11.40¢ / kWhUP1.315 %
Missouri13.23¢ / kWh13.25¢ / kWhDOWN-0.150 %
Montana11.85¢ / kWh11.73¢ / kWhUP1.023 %
Nebraska11.31¢ / kWh12.06¢ / kWhDOWN-6.218 %
Nevada11.67¢ / kWh11.64¢ / kWhUP0.257 %
New Hampshire19.63¢ / kWh19.30¢ / kWhUP1.709 %
New Jersey15.64¢ / kWh15.96¢ / kWhDOWN-2.005 %
New Mexico13.37¢ / kWh13.41¢ / kWhDOWN-0.298 %
New York19.30¢ / kWh18.76¢ / kWhUP2.878 %
North Carolina11.24¢ / kWh11.07¢ / kWhUP1.535 %
North Dakota12.07¢ / kWh12.34¢ / kWhDOWN-2.188 %
Ohio12.64¢ / kWh12.67¢ / kWhDOWN-0.236 %
Oklahoma10.72¢ / kWh10.53¢ / kWhUP1.804 %
Oregon11.02¢ / kWh10.97¢ / kWhUP0.455 %
Pennsylvania14.38¢ / kWh14.52¢ / kWhDOWN-0.964 %
Rhode Island18.64¢ / kWh16.65¢ / kWhUP11.95 %
South Carolina12.91¢ / kWh13.07¢ / kWhDOWN-1.224 %
South Dakota12.39¢ / kWh12.57¢ / kWhDOWN-1.431 %
Tennessee10.79¢ / kWh10.93¢ / kWhDOWN-1.280 %
Texas11.36¢ / kWh11.15¢ / kWhUP1.883 %
Utah10.63¢ / kWh11.48¢ / kWhDOWN-7.404 %
Vermont18.50¢ / kWh18.02¢ / kWhUP2.663 %
Virginia12.40¢ / kWh11.91¢ / kWhUP4.114 %
Washington9.79¢ / kWh9.95¢ / kWhDOWN-1.608 %
West Virginia11.57¢ / kWh11.69¢ / kWhDOWN-1.026 %
Wisconsin14.28¢ / kWh15.05¢ / kWhDOWN-5.116 %
Wyoming12.30¢ / kWh12.21¢ / kWhUP0.737 %
not relevant to the David Keller situation..but...
Good info, the problem is it's already out of date, since it's only up to 2021. We already know for my state, Maine, it went up 30% last year, and another 24% has already been announced starting next month. That's a 61% increase in 13 months, for residential electricity which is supposed to be stable, and which hadn't changed much in over a decade, prior to this past year.
by default 2022-12-09 at 8.48.15 PM.jpg


At the same time, the state is pushing people from heating oil towards electric heat pumps! Sure, oil is expensive too, but the oil furnace/boiler is paid for, while the electric heat pump is getting 60% more expensive to run, AND, you have to buy it and have it installed. Sure, they offer tax credits, but that only covers a small fraction of the total cost.

I installed a heat pump, and because I'm naturally curious, I did it myself. And, had a professional come and check the work, evacuate the lines, and certify it was done properly. I sent the forms into the state to get a tax credit, and NO, they said it had to be completely done by a professional. I asked them, what difference it made to the environment if I did it vs a pro, and I had a pro do the technical work, and certify it. They didn't respond. What a joke.
 
That is a pretty good solution. Nice for Tesla owners where it's automatic. Non-Tesla have to use the app. With 3/4 of the cars being Teslas you would want NACS on at least half the stations if they are shared, plus have a cabinet with some of those Lectron NACS to J1772 connectors for people to borrow, a lockbox with a code or something. If the spaces are assigned to one car, you just assign Tesla drivers to Tesla stalls, they get plug and play.

Having to use an app is annoying of course for non-Teslas. I don't know if the cars that do plug and charge can talk to the J1772 wall connector, it seems it should be doable if Tesla implements it.

And as a plus, Tesla wall connectors can share current, meaning you can put in 24 stations with maybe 200 amps, not 720. The odds that you would need more than that are very low, but you would look at the cost of 200 amps compared to 400 or higher and make the decision. No way you need 720, it's just never going to happen that all 24 cars will charge at full rate all night, not even remotely close.

I presume what's done is done at this co-op though.
I'm not sure you understood my Tesla J1772 charger reference. They'd all be j1772a natively, and require the J1772a to Tesla adapter that all Tesla owners carry. I don't think you'd really be able to share 24 ways, but two banks of 12 is possible. Its still way less than the full rate of 24 chargers.
 
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I'm not sure you understood my Tesla J1772 charger reference. They'd all be j1772a natively, and require the J1772a to Tesla adapter that all Tesla owners carry. I don't think you'd really be able to share 24 ways, but two banks of 12 is possible. Its still way less than the full rate of 24 chargers.
Tesla gen 3s power sharing says it works on "up to 6" units, in their installation setup guide for it. I agree wholeheartedly though that any solution installed in a co-op public setting should be some form of J1772 though, tesla or otherwise. Every tesla comes with a J1772 adapter (at least now they do), and pretty much every other EV in the US can use that standard as well.

On the "pay $50 a month instead of paying for usage" thing, I dont know.. When I was living in apartments when I was a young man, I HATED (Hated with the passion of a 1000 suns) any apartment building that had shared charges for water or electricity. I always felt it was patently unfair that I was somehow also paying for the usage by the "family of 7 in the apartment next door" that took 30 minute showers, as an example.

As I got a bit older and had a bit more income (but was living in apartments) a non negotiable for me was the ability to pay for my own usage, not anyone elses. I would rather pay "whatever" but be responsible for my own, vs shared charging which would be by necessity taking the cost and splitting it amongst all the users.
 
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Tesla gen 3s power sharing says it works on "up to 6" units, in their installation setup guide for it. I agree wholeheartedly though that any solution installed in a co-op public setting should be some form of J1772 though, tesla or otherwise. Every tesla comes with a J1772 adapter (at least now they do), and pretty much every other EV in the US can use that standard as well.

On the "pay $50 a month instead of paying for usage" thing, I dont know.. When I was living in apartments when I was a young man, I HATED (Hated with the passion of a 1000 suns) any apartment building that had shared charges for water or electricity. I always felt it was patently unfair that I was somehow also paying for the usage by the "family of 7 in the apartment next door" that took 30 minute showers, as an example.

As I got a bit older and had a bit more income (but was living in apartments) a non negotiable for me was the ability to pay for my own usage, not anyone elses. I would rather pay "whatever" but be responsible for my own, vs shared charging which would be by necessity taking the cost and splitting it amongst all the users.
There are several reasons to make the cables natively Tesla Wall Connector.
  • 3/4s of the tenants probably have a Tesla. Well, you can find out for this co-op what it is but it's probably high.
  • The Tesla version costs $400, the J1772 cost $550.
  • You pay that extra $150 just to make a hassle for most of your tenants -- they need to add an adapter, and they lose, I presume, the button which you can press to open the charge door (not so exciting) and to interrupt charging and unlock the port (hugely convenient.)
  • Now that NACS is open, the reverse adapter, while currently $150 should drop in price quite a bit.
  • I don't know if the J1772 connector, through the adapter will do the communications protocol for plug and play billing. If not, that makes it even worse.
Because you have apportioned the chargers in a good ratio, it may be that a few Tesla owners or a few non-Tesla owners have to use an adapter, but just a handful. The Tesla owners have one, the non-Tesla can buy one, or the building can buy several with the $150 it saved on every charger. It seems crazy to pay more to give inferior capabilities to the majority of the car owners.

Now, if the stalls are assigned to a particular tenant, then each tenant picks one with their connector, and you just need to loan an adapter to any J1772 cars that need to use a Tesla. In this case it might make sense to just make them all Tesla, because TWC with NACS plus adapter is currently the same as J1772 connector in price. You massively inconvenience the Tesla owners just to save the others from putting on the adapter but save no money. Plus those J1772 owners now have the adapter and can go to Tesla Destination Chargers too. Win-win.

If stations are shared, then you put a box with some adapters with a keycode and you give that code to the J1772 drivers if they ever find all the J1772 are full.
 
I'd think that a fleet of Tesla J1772a chargers set for power sharing could reduce the total maximum load and provide billing, and I suppose even make it so only approved users could use them.

I'd also certainly hope the co-op isn't paying full residential rate for power, too. I'd expect commercial rates, but I'm not a power professional.
Small commercial rates are typically considerably higher than residential rates, at least until you reach a capacity where you negotiate an individual contract with the utility; yes they're probably paying that higher rate.
 
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The table above seems to be showing only the power generation charge, at least for MA. The delivery and other charges pretty much double that number. I was paying $0.34/kWh last month, with big increases coming in January. Paying 50 cents for the convenience of an installed charger doesn't seem egregious.
 
The table above seems to be showing only the power generation charge, at least for MA. The delivery and other charges pretty much double that number. I was paying $0.34/kWh last month, with big increases coming in January. Paying 50 cents for the convenience of an installed charger doesn't seem egregious.
This is incorrect. https://www.nationalgridus.com/media/pdfs/billing-payments/electric-rates/ma/resitable.pdf shows that the supply charge was 9.707 cents/kwh in Sept 2021, which is relatively consistent with a delivered rate of 21.11 cents/kwh.. I agree its misleading since we have at least three major utilities and at least a few municipal utilities(which somehow have rates that are still very small, delivered today for 7-8c/kwh(!) in Hudson). I will leave it to someone else to research why there is such a disparity. The same chart shows the supply rate jumped from 10.37 to 32.287 between October and November 2022.
 
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I live in a NYC co-op and my building is in the process of installing 24 chargers into our garage. We were just informed that the electricity rate will be approximately .50/KW. I am lucky that I charge for free at my work but want the ability to charge at home as well but the .50/KW is insane, right - for Con Edison? I went onto the Con Edison website and the NYSERDA website and they both show charges in the .20/KW range. Does anyone have any experience within the NYC Con Edison area? Am I crazy? I even paid .38/KW at a Supercharger in NJ during peak times. Something is not right, right?
I live in a coop too and my building is not doing installing it yet. they said maybe in a year or two. Your lucky that you are having one.? Regardless of the price I would do it for the convenience just to top it off.