I live in a NYC co-op and my building is in the process of installing 24 chargers into our garage. We were just informed that the electricity rate will be approximately .50/KW. I am lucky that I charge for free at my work but want the ability to charge at home as well but the .50/KW is insane, right - for Con Edison? I went onto the Con Edison website and the NYSERDA website and they both show charges in the .20/KW range. Does anyone have any experience within the NYC Con Edison area? Am I crazy? I even paid .38/KW at a Supercharger in NJ during peak times. Something is not right, right?
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Energy Costs - My co-op installing chargers that are 50c kWh
- Thread starter David Keller
- Start date
Operator64
Member
Sounds like the building is trying to make Some money on the charging convenience.
Candleflame
Active Member
Yes, and they will effectively be 'wasting' 24 parking spaces. My company went from two free chargers that were in use 10 hours a day to two chargers that were triple the residential energy cost and now those two prime spaces are absolutely never occupied.
Side note... at 0.50/kwh, the "energy saved" numbers disappear from the tesla app, because they are negative. I know this because that's my current home electricity rate here in MA(!), and that's without even joining one of these scam energy supply companies. Unless you are looking to save the planet or win the stoplight drag race there's now zero incentive to buy a Tesla in MA.
Operator64
Member
.50 for home rate would quickly pay for solar and battery backup for night use……that’s crazy rates, I’ll never Complain about my rates now
Which is why (including the amount of sun we have here) so many Californians have Solar. We do not get to choose electric companies here (and I absolutely am not and do not want to start any sort of state vs state "shade throwing contest", just talk about rates) and this is what the TOU rate structure looks like for Southern CA Edison (SCE).
Back to the OP...
OP I assume this is simply supposed to be a rant thread, right? I mean, there is nothing you will be able to do about what your NYC co-op is charging for rates. The rates you looked up may not even apply to what they are installing, they may have to pay commercial rates for the electricity solution they are installing. Residential rates may not apply at all, and commercial rate structures tend to be different.
Regardless, there is nothing you will be able to do about it other than sell your apartment if you own it, or cancel your rental / lease, or wait for the rental period to end, and move. You are not going to get them to change the rates, if that is what they are charging, and no amount of talking about whether they are appropriate or not with them (or elsewhere) is going to change it.
garth_angst
Member
Wow, I thought my 0.27/kWh on Long Island was high, but .50 might be higher than Hawaii!
Ya... it was ~0.27/kwh here in MA until the supply rate TRIPLED in November. I'll restrain my urge to blame anyone but myself for staying here.
I'm up above you in NH. Our rates just went up to .23 and everyone is crying to the high heavens. I'll shut my mouth now lol
I'm in Maine and ours is going up from 21c to 26c in January, which includes the transmission cost of about 9c/kWh.
If the NECEC ever gets built, bringing renewable energy from Canada to Mass, how much do they predict electric prices to be?
No one who has done the numbers buys a Tesla to save money. A $15-20K used hybrid that gets 35+ MPG saves money. A new Bolt with the tax incentive might save money. Living in town and using a bike and public transportation to get around really saves money.
I often tell people that I regard MA as one of those "you get what you pay for" deals. Like a Tesla, it's expensive, but worth it.
I often tell people that I regard MA as one of those "you get what you pay for" deals. Like a Tesla, it's expensive, but worth it.
But it's not going to encourage PEV owners to move in, and it's not going to encourage ICEV owners to buy a PEV.
It's really worse than doing nothing.
So, just thinking this thru, at 50c/kWh, in Summer when you're getting a little over 4 miles/kWh, that's about 12c/mile. In Winter, when you're getting about 3 miles/kWh, that's about 16c/mile. If you're replacing some vehicle that got 20mpg, then that's like paying $2.40 to $3.20 per gallon. It's insane compared to what ConEd is charging, but is it really that bad compared to gas if you are replacing an ICE in NYC? Not only is gas expensive in NYC, gas stations are hard to find. So, you're just paying the NYC premium, and is having a modestly expensive refueling station in the co-op so bad compared to finding a gas station in NYC for an ICE? 24 spots sounds like plenty, unless your co-op is huge, so it's even more convenient not to have to check when the charger is free.
This came to mind.....
not relevant to the David Keller situation..but...
Electricity (kWh) Prices by State
| STATE | Sep 2021 | Sep 2020 | MOVEMENT | CHANGE (%) |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Alabama | 12.41¢ / kWh | 12.79¢ / kWh | DOWN | -2.971 % |
| Alaska | 22.54¢ / kWh | 22.14¢ / kWh | UP | 1.806 % |
| Arizona | 13.16¢ / kWh | 12.65¢ / kWh | UP | 4.031 % |
| Arkansas | 9.99¢ / kWh | 10.73¢ / kWh | DOWN | -6.896 % |
| California | 19.90¢ / kWh | 19.39¢ / kWh | UP | 2.630 % |
| Colorado | 12.28¢ / kWh | 12.75¢ / kWh | DOWN | -3.686 % |
| Connecticut | 21.62¢ / kWh | 20.47¢ / kWh | UP | 5.617 % |
| DC | 13.21¢ / kWh | 13.40¢ / kWh | DOWN | -1.417 % |
| Delaware | 12.05¢ / kWh | 12.59¢ / kWh | DOWN | -4.289 % |
| Florida | 11.37¢ / kWh | 12.02¢ / kWh | DOWN | -5.407 % |
| Georgia | 12.26¢ / kWh | 12.53¢ / kWh | DOWN | -2.154 % |
| Hawaii | 32.76¢ / kWh | 30.45¢ / kWh | UP | 7.586 % |
| Idaho | 10.58¢ / kWh | 11.42¢ / kWh | DOWN | -7.355 % |
| Illinois | 12.56¢ / kWh | 12.95¢ / kWh | DOWN | -3.011 % |
| Indiana | 12.02¢ / kWh | 12.05¢ / kWh | DOWN | -0.248 % |
| Iowa | 13.81¢ / kWh | 13.92¢ / kWh | DOWN | -0.790 % |
| Kansas | 11.56¢ / kWh | 13.56¢ / kWh | DOWN | -14.74 % |
| Kentucky | 10.56¢ / kWh | 10.68¢ / kWh | DOWN | -1.123 % |
| Louisiana | 9.37¢ / kWh | 10.19¢ / kWh | DOWN | -8.047 % |
| Maine | 16.16¢ / kWh | 16.17¢ / kWh | DOWN | -0.061 % |
| Maryland | 13.92¢ / kWh | 14.22¢ / kWh | DOWN | -2.109 % |
| Massachusetts | 21.11¢ / kWh | 18.56¢ / kWh | UP | 13.73 % |
| Michigan | 16.07¢ / kWh | 15.86¢ / kWh | UP | 1.324 % |
| Minnesota | 14.09¢ / kWh | 13.96¢ / kWh | UP | 0.931 % |
| Mississippi | 11.55¢ / kWh | 11.40¢ / kWh | UP | 1.315 % |
| Missouri | 13.23¢ / kWh | 13.25¢ / kWh | DOWN | -0.150 % |
| Montana | 11.85¢ / kWh | 11.73¢ / kWh | UP | 1.023 % |
| Nebraska | 11.31¢ / kWh | 12.06¢ / kWh | DOWN | -6.218 % |
| Nevada | 11.67¢ / kWh | 11.64¢ / kWh | UP | 0.257 % |
| New Hampshire | 19.63¢ / kWh | 19.30¢ / kWh | UP | 1.709 % |
| New Jersey | 15.64¢ / kWh | 15.96¢ / kWh | DOWN | -2.005 % |
| New Mexico | 13.37¢ / kWh | 13.41¢ / kWh | DOWN | -0.298 % |
| New York | 19.30¢ / kWh | 18.76¢ / kWh | UP | 2.878 % |
| North Carolina | 11.24¢ / kWh | 11.07¢ / kWh | UP | 1.535 % |
| North Dakota | 12.07¢ / kWh | 12.34¢ / kWh | DOWN | -2.188 % |
| Ohio | 12.64¢ / kWh | 12.67¢ / kWh | DOWN | -0.236 % |
| Oklahoma | 10.72¢ / kWh | 10.53¢ / kWh | UP | 1.804 % |
| Oregon | 11.02¢ / kWh | 10.97¢ / kWh | UP | 0.455 % |
| Pennsylvania | 14.38¢ / kWh | 14.52¢ / kWh | DOWN | -0.964 % |
| Rhode Island | 18.64¢ / kWh | 16.65¢ / kWh | UP | 11.95 % |
| South Carolina | 12.91¢ / kWh | 13.07¢ / kWh | DOWN | -1.224 % |
| South Dakota | 12.39¢ / kWh | 12.57¢ / kWh | DOWN | -1.431 % |
| Tennessee | 10.79¢ / kWh | 10.93¢ / kWh | DOWN | -1.280 % |
| Texas | 11.36¢ / kWh | 11.15¢ / kWh | UP | 1.883 % |
| Utah | 10.63¢ / kWh | 11.48¢ / kWh | DOWN | -7.404 % |
| Vermont | 18.50¢ / kWh | 18.02¢ / kWh | UP | 2.663 % |
| Virginia | 12.40¢ / kWh | 11.91¢ / kWh | UP | 4.114 % |
| Washington | 9.79¢ / kWh | 9.95¢ / kWh | DOWN | -1.608 % |
| West Virginia | 11.57¢ / kWh | 11.69¢ / kWh | DOWN | -1.026 % |
| Wisconsin | 14.28¢ / kWh | 15.05¢ / kWh | DOWN | -5.116 % |
| Wyoming | 12.30¢ / kWh | 12.21¢ / kWh | UP | 0.737 % |
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
bradtem
Robocar consultant
As everybody is saying, that's a crazy rate. And its a crazy rate even considering the costs of the chargers. A typical driver will use around 2,500 kWh in a year -- perhaps less if an urban driver. Some will be at fast chargers on road trips (and some like you will do it at work.) But with the electricity costing 20 cents (but should be much less at night) and 2,000 kWh that's $600 of margin per year which should pay for the stations pretty quick.
Though on the other hand, if they had to do a major renovation to put in the stations, re-pouring concrete, rather than just screwing conduit to the walls, it could add up to thousands per station. Some people definitely pay that.
Plus they probably foolishly tried to provide 7kW at every station so they had to put in 170kW or 700 amps of extra service which is pricey. There are many ways to avoid that:
Though on the other hand, if they had to do a major renovation to put in the stations, re-pouring concrete, rather than just screwing conduit to the walls, it could add up to thousands per station. Some people definitely pay that.
Plus they probably foolishly tried to provide 7kW at every station so they had to put in 170kW or 700 amps of extra service which is pricey. There are many ways to avoid that:
- You don't need remotely 7kW at each station. The average car only uses 10kWh/day which means 2kW is more than enough as an average.
- There are tools which can share load. I am an investor in one company that makes a tool that lets you put in the 7kW for every car without increasing the service for the building, because it tracks the other loads in the building and lets the cars have what's left, and at night there is always plenty left. (It's at variablegrid.com) You can also share just among the stations and not need to put in so many extra amps
- They probably bought fancy charging stations which are much more expensive. You know why they bought them? Because they have billing ability. Yup, you are paying all that extra so they can bill you. I bet most tenants might prefer a flat monthly fee that's more than the base price but a lot less than 50 cents -- unless they are a very light user. How about $50/month to have a stall for yourself instead of paying that for only 100kWh?
I'd think that a fleet of Tesla J1772a chargers set for power sharing could reduce the total maximum load and provide billing, and I suppose even make it so only approved users could use them.
I'd also certainly hope the co-op isn't paying full residential rate for power, too. I'd expect commercial rates, but I'm not a power professional.
Similar threads
